posted on September 28, 2001 01:18:18 PM new
Yes, I said "leeches". Frickin' timewasters is what they are. You could call 'em auction critics, if you wanted to be kind. As far as I can tell they serve no useful purpose in the universe.
I've had about six of them today. They never actually bid on anything; they just want to write and complain about whatever policy of mine tees them off. Usually this is couched in the snottiest terms you can imagine. I send a simple reply reiterating the policy in different words. Understand these are not emotionally-loaded words, it's a simple factual reply. (If I explain a policy in detail, an argument ensues because an eLeech is always convinced she can run an eBay business much much better than I. She's an eBay seller, too, you see...she runs about five auctions a month. Snort.)
Thwarted, their followup message is invariably nasty and deplores my lack of customer service, my rude and insulting manner, and my prospects for future employment at Burger King.
By the bye, sales are great! We have no problems getting bids. It's almost like Christmas season started early this year.
posted on September 28, 2001 01:47:43 PM new
If you're trying to insult me you'll have to try harder. I have no complaints about eBay; we're making lots of money.
(Oh, I have a few peeves...but no real complaints.)
You might not like my TOS, but it's all there in black and white. Can't figure out why people feel the need to weigh in by emailing me with their oh-so-important opinion about it.
posted on September 28, 2001 02:13:21 PM new
Actually, I realized you're right: I am the kind of seller who's made eBay what it is today. I've been selling (using the current ID) since 1997. Did well enough last year that I quit my real job.
posted on September 28, 2001 02:19:17 PM newI've had about six of them today. They never actually bid on anything; they just want to write and complain about whatever policy of mine tees them off.
If I had 6 emails a day complaining about my TOS, I'd be reconsidering those TOS ASAP.
posted on September 28, 2001 02:33:11 PM new
Would you consider sharing your TOS or the the highlights, and in what position they appear on the auction page?
posted on September 28, 2001 02:54:20 PM new
Really? What if those six people all thought you should ship for free ala A4A? Would you then do it?
Nope, just got six today and needed to rant. In four-five years of eBay business we have developed a way of doing auctions that makes the most sense for us, despite what the "conventional wisdom" might say.
Here's one policy people love to hate: we don't ship internationally.
Here's another: we don't take credit cards or electronic forms of payment.
But we do say these things up front, so where's the beef?
One of my neighbors on the next block painted his house red with pink trim. Should I ring his doorbell and say, "I really don't like the color you painted your house and I don't see why you needed to make the trim pink when you could easily have made it white"? Should I then go on to say, "I know what I'm talking about because I painted my house last year"?
Passersby who complain about my auctions are doing the exact same thing.
I've thought about it a bit further and decided that some of the hate mail is from people who can't stand to see deviations from the norm. They'd like to force us to conform, but if we don't know they exist, why should we change? (That we're not going to change to suit them never seems to enter into it.)
posted on September 28, 2001 03:31:45 PM new
Well a "passerby" at your auction is NOT the same as someone walking by your house and criticizing your decorating scheme.
You sell things on eBay -- you are in essence, a merchant. There is no reason prospective customers (not just "passersby" should not feel free to offer feedback, particularly if your TOS serve to limit or exclude their business in some fashion. If I walk into a store and something displeases me or there is something I'd like to see that isn't there, I would certainly feel free to make a suggestion to management. When I go to my grocery store and they stop carrying my favorite coffee drink, they get to hear my feedback, and I'd be mighty PO'd if they had a "how dare you" attitude toward me.
There is no excuse for rudeness in any event, but I imagine your responses to your customers may only invite argument. Why not simply respond to such comments with a "Thank you for your feedback" instead of explanation if you really aren't interested in hearing what they have to say??
I have a website, which actually is where most of my energies go although I still do a lot of eBay business. While I NEVER get criticisms about my eBay TOS (they are very inclusive and user-friendly), I do occasionally get feedback about my website - the layout, the ease of navigation, loading time etc. If there is any hint that something about the site may be inhibiting business, YOU BET I get together with my webmaster to see what remedy there may be.
posted on September 28, 2001 03:43:32 PM new
I respond once, just so they can't scream that I'm ignoring them. (This seems to be Number One on the hit parade of e-mail complaints.) But I agree with you: nasty means the e-mail should make a quick trip to /dev/null.
We were talking about people trying to start fights by complaining about my TOS. But here's mail I *just* received from some lady who wants to involve me in her fight because I sold a couple of items to another eBay seller in April 2000. Read it and weep.
--
To member: [me]
From member: [buyer's name deleted]
Subject: [seller's name deleted]
Hello, I happened to see that you recently did a transaction with this seller. I
also purchased an item from her a couple of months ago. After writing her three
times that she hadn't left me feedback, I checked what feedbacks she has left in the
past.
THERE ARE ONLY 3--one was left for her first transaction and the other two are
NEGATIVES.
While leaving feedback for our trading partners is optional, it is something that I
make sure to do in the community spirit of the community. I certainly would never
transact anything with a person who isn't courteous enough to return a feedback,
especially when my purchase was instantaneous and I caused no problems.
I have contacted eBay and believe that if you wish to add your communication to
mine, it will be helpful in letting this seller know that her behavior isn't in
accordance with others who spend their money on her auctions.
Of course, your response is optional, and I wish you continued success in your
auctions whatever your decision.
[buyer's name deleted]
--
"her behavior isn't in accordance with others"...what was I just saying about folks who can't stand deviations from the norm?
So somebody didn't leave you feedback. Get on with your life, already!
posted on September 28, 2001 03:56:13 PM new
Lisa_B: Point taken, but odds are the store doesn't care if your favorite coffee drink has been discontinued. You didn't buy enough drinks to justify them carrying it. You may be the most fabulous customer on the planet, willing to endure most anything to shop there, but you're still just one customer, and customers vary widely as to taste (thank heavens). Replacing your favorite vanilla hazelnut with a dark chocolate mocha might mean they get to sell 10 of the latter drinks where they only sold 1 of the former. And who knows, maybe you'll try the dark chocolate mocha. (I got hooked on eggnog lattes last year, which aren't as disgusting as they sound.)
You might consider also that the store knows it sells one very occasionally to you (or somebody), and while they won't say "get lost" when you complain about the unavailable drink, really all they can do is shrug their shoulders.
So it is with my TOS. I know we are losing some business with it. I know that. But we do so much volume anyway (because the value is extremely good) that we don't have to jump through extra hoops or pay card processing fees to get more customers. One of my favorite restaurants here in the Bay Area, an English tea room, has a simple payment process: cash. They don't take checks, they don't take credit cards, they don't take debit cards. Cash will do nicely.
I suppose they lose the occasional customer who wants the miles or the points from his charge card, but the restaurant is always full. What they offer is sufficiently attractive that their payment terms work for them. As they do for us.
[ edited by bettylou on Sep 28, 2001 04:03 PM ]
posted on September 28, 2001 04:13:09 PM new
I understand how you feel. I had email one day from two people complaining about my "insensitive" TOS...out of the blue and then no more since. Do I think this was the same person or two acting in concert? My favorite online is the same as in my storefronts...the guardian of "you name it" collectible who wants to lecture you at length (often with erroneous info)and usually with one or two people in-tow to serve as audience/admirers.
posted on September 28, 2001 04:43:25 PM new
Well,I take credit cards,stamps,cash,checks and money orders and sell overseas so i 've never had any of your type of emails..also charge exact shipping,no handling fees ever.
posted on September 28, 2001 04:44:30 PM new
Well that one person writing to you about someone else not leaving feedback is . . .very weird . . . but surely it's more amusing than aggravating? Personally I wouldn't even respond to something like that.
As far as the coffee example goes, I frequent a store that is famiy-owned and still adheres to certain customer service principles. The last thing they would do is make disparaging remarks about my request or view me as a "leech." What they do is special order the coffee for me so I can have it. I get 20 boxes at a time. Now THAT'S service. They know I could go somewhere else to buy not only that, but whatever other groceries I need at the time. (Just as an interesting side note, when they did carry the coffee, it was VERY popular, often sold out. Go figure.)
I won't shop at the big impersonal chain stores because I personally care about customer service.
You acknowledge that these "leeches" don't actually bid, but then perhaps they are frustrated because they would like to and feel they TOS prevent that and that is what you're hearing in the tone of their e-mails. Maybe the extra business isn't worth it to you to change your TOS but why let their comments get you down?
posted on September 28, 2001 05:12:20 PM new
I was just browsing through the S4S auctions and was amazed at some of the TOS I saw. Many newbies state the terms for neg feedback, how bad they hate deadbeats, etc, etc, etc. Geez, whatever happened to "Thank you for Stopping by"?
I found a perfect gift I would like to bid on, the sale ends in 1 hour. The TOS states the type of payment, how soon they should be contacted, what happens if you don't contact them, what happens if you don't pay, how they always pay their bills.
Absolutely no mention of the amount of shipping.!!!!
I emailed them almost 3 hours ago asking shipping charges, sale ends in 1 hour and they have no bids yet. Still no answer.
Maybe if they had spent 1 less minute worrying about being ripped off and paid attention to the sale, they would have some bids.
If one person complains about a TOS, that is just someone wanting to complain. If 6 in one day complain, there may be a problem with that TOS.
posted on September 28, 2001 05:40:37 PM new
Hi:
When ever I'm contacted with a stupid question or complaint, I simply put them on my blocked list! I don't even give them the satisfaction of a reply. Doing so would just add fuel to the fire! By blocking them I never have to worry about hearing from them again!
Do I feel like I'm cutting my own throat driving away Buss? Absolutly not, who need's this kind of aggravation, besides if you think they are a pain in the butt now before the sale just imagine the B.S they'll give you after!
[ edited by dadofstickboy on Sep 28, 2001 05:41 PM ]
posted on September 28, 2001 07:29:51 PM new
Ditto dad! My staff has complete carte blanche to block any eBay users from my auction they wish to. We have 100s of blocked names now. It is one of the few fun things they have to do! No bidder, or potential bidder is worth the headache. With rare exceptions any user who leaves negative or neutral feedback for us is blocked from further auctions.
Our most recent problem group has been a rash of the 'I know about the tragedy in NYC, yadda yadda but I still don't think it should take more than 3 or 4 days for my CD to get from California to Maine. If the item is not here by Friday, and I if I do not hear back from you within 12 hours, I will report you for Fraud to eBay." These people will not come NEAR my auctions again.
posted on September 28, 2001 09:18:06 PM new
Good for you, Marie!
bettylou, you keep doing what works for you and ignore the few critics.
My favorite grocery store doesn't take credit cards... never has and never will. It's cash or check only if you want to shop there --- and people shop there in droves.
posted on September 29, 2001 12:13:06 AM new
once in awhile someone in traffic will flip me off....I always smile and wave. it keeps me smiling and makes them feel powerless. I suggest the same emails you are getting.
posted on September 29, 2001 12:52:34 AM new
I have never had anyone complain about my auctions. Either from the buyer or a passer by. My TOS is brief and to the point, I deviate from it if the buyer would like a different type of postage. My S/H is about exact as it can get. I don't ship internationally unless a buyer writes me first and then I will sell to them, that is if they win the auction. And I describe the item to the smallest detail. I leave feedback when I receive their payment and never ask for feedback from them. I wrap my product so it looks nice and also waterproof.
I realize that you are upset but I think you have used the wrong adjative in describing your inquirers. Leeches are blood sucking and I don't think anyone on ebay whether they be sellers, buyers or whatever are that. Just forget about their emails it will only ruin your day.
posted on September 29, 2001 07:44:23 AM new
libra63: Not to put too fine a point on it, but "leech" in this context is a noun, not an adjective.
Drained of blood is the way I feel after I get one of these hypercritical Ms.-Know-It-All e-mails. (For some reason they always come from women. Figure that out, 'cause I can't.)
The problem is that I have to read through the message to make sure it isn't an actual customer of mine with a problem. Someone suggested what I call the Susie Sunshine approach: greet incivility with charm:
Leech: I will NEVER bid on your auctions, you rude and arrogant ripoff artist, because you don't take PayPal!
Me: Charming to hear from you! Have a nice day!
Sometimes they escalate this several levels because they're expecting an angry response...and didn't get one.
Leech (2nd e-mail): You need to get some manners and some customer service skills or your competitors will put you out of business. It couldn't be too soon for me.
Me: Thanks for another fascinating and thought-provoking note. Best of luck in your future eBay endeavors.
Leech (3rd e-mail): I'm blocking your e-mail address! How dare you harass me like this!
Me: Hope you are having a wonderful day!
Eventually they give up.
But on days I'm getting hammered with 60 or more e-mails an hour, such amusement is dearly paid for.
Jereth/Marie: You said, "Our most recent problem group has been a rash of the 'I know about the tragedy in NYC, yadda yadda but I still don't think it should take more than 3 or 4 days for my CD to get from California to Maine. If the item is not here by Friday, and I if I do not hear back from you within 12 hours, I will report you for Fraud to eBay.' These people will not come NEAR my auctions again."
Oh boy, do I ever share your pain. Packages I shipped on the 13th and 14th of September are taking two weeks or longer to arrive. Finally I had to concoct a form letter for these anxious folks, some of whom are repeat customers so I can't block them.
drivingmetodrink: Sometimes the words people use in their responses are telling. "Insensitive" TOS? What do they want, Leo Buscaglia holding their hand and explaining it to them in a gentle, non-confrontational manner? Lots of us tried sweetness-and-light terms of service when we first started on eBay. We quickly learned that you *must* be specific about terms or you will get pushed into intolerable situations (and end up posting on AW!). Being specific, to me, means being businesslike.
posted on September 29, 2001 08:48:30 AM new
Oh my... two things...
(1) No electronic payments? Owie.
(2) I respond to EVERY e-mail that I get from customers, no matter how silly. Of course, this may be easier for me due to the fact that for the last ten years I've been doing e-mail support for various technical companies. Explaining my TOS isn't very difficult. I dunno. I've actually had a few people who complained end up bidding once they understood why things are the way that they were.
Case in point...
About two weeks ago, I had a complaint from a customer who didn't want to pay $5.00 in shipping and handling for a $3.00 shirt that would probably ship for $3.50. Even though it states in my TOS on every auction WHY I charge a handling fee (It's because my post office is NEVER quiet and I usually end up waiting 30-45 minutes to deliver the items, I try to make up for the lost time in a little bit of a handling fee.... $1.50 handling is as high as it ever gets, most often it's around 80 cents), she was still concerned about it. Stated she could send three pairs of jeans for $5.20, why $5.00? I took the time to e-mail her back and explain again what is in my TOS. I was courteous and friendly, pointed out in a nice way that it was in the auction and shipped it out. She responded favorably, chuckled with me at how awful post offices could be and ended up bidding, winning and paying instantly for the auction! So far she's ended up being one of the friendliest customers I had... and she was so impressed at the speed of delivery and the time I took to answer her inquiry that she plans on buying again!
So, I'd never block silly or absurd complaints. I'd suggest ALWAYS answering them. If they continue to be beligerant ignore them to a point, but that first e-mail back should ALWAYS go out. Customers may not always be able to get their way, but the fact that you took the time out to give them an explanation goes a looong way with them. This is something you learn doing tech support.
You have a customer who has a problem. You go through everything you know of to fix the problem. Even if the customer started out irrate, you are courteous and friendly and... here's the kicker... understanding. Even ifyou can't fix their problem, by the end of the conversation the customer is going to be ten times happier and is more likely to be a repeat customer. Why? Because in this day and age of form mail and impersonal contact you've managed to touch that customer with personal, considerate and understanding contact.
posted on September 29, 2001 09:05:40 AM newrealitycheck Why do you spend so much time inside the post office?
With online postage and insurance programs and free print-it-yourself delivery confirmation online, we've cut our post office trip time from 30-45 minutes to three minutes (the amount of time it takes to unload and carry 20 or so packages and drop them off at the counter).
posted on September 29, 2001 09:10:21 AM new
I'm pretty clear about my TOS on my auction page. But..occasionally I will get a question that is clearly stated in the auction.
I ALWAY answer very politely by answering their specific question and appologize if I had failed to state it on the auction page.
Now I know full well that it IS stated in the auction, but what the heck...why go to the extent of making them look like a fool for not seeing it.
Besides I've done it myself...asked because I didn't spot it on the page.
I want and NEED the buyers as I'm sure most of you do. So why alienate a potential customer by being flippent or rude.
posted on September 29, 2001 09:31:00 AM newSo why alienate a potential customer by being flippent or rude.
For the most part, I agree, but the ones that make me pull my hair are "If it doesn't sell, I'll give you $15.00 for it" when I have a $100 item up for bid. Oh, the replies I've written but never sent.
should not feel free to offer feedback, particularly if your TOS serve to limit or exclude their business in some fashion. If I walk into a store and something displeases me or there is something I'd like to see that isn't there, I would certainly feel free to make a suggestion to management. When I go to my grocery store and they stop carrying my favorite coffee drink, they get to hear my feedback, and I'd be mighty PO'd if they had a "how dare you" attitude toward me.
