posted on May 20, 2006 08:36:05 PM new
A pathetic piece of LA trash bought a vintage purse from me on Ebay. Countess Slutula used the purse for two weeks. She contacted paypal and said the purse was not really vintage. I responded by saying item was as described. Anyway, they found her in favor, gave her back 57.00 and she never sent back my purse! The email from paypal said they cofirmed my item had been received! really then where is it? where in the hell are the tracking numbers? I have had a paypal acount for about 6 years and I have NEVER been contested for selling a fake item. The purse was vintage - I could confirm it and validate it with an expert opinon. Did they give me that opportunity? NO! they gave her their direct fax number and she sent some bogus notice from her friend the purse was not vintage. Now I am out a purse and a 57.00 what stupid ass incompetant aholes these people are. Is there anything I can do?
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 20, 2006 08:38 PM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 20, 2006 08:38 PM ]
posted on May 20, 2006 08:51:58 PM new
Simply stated, Nope....You ARE screwed..been there, done that...They got their money back and I,,,,,, never got my product back and that is EXACTLY the way the BUYER planned it and he NEVER used that E bay account name again........
posted on May 20, 2006 10:26:34 PM new
Put up an auction on ebay in the same place as you sold your article. and tell the world who this person is inc ebay user name. a link to their feedback and where they are , address and all. and give them the full story. be factual.
posted on May 20, 2006 10:27:39 PM new
First - calm down because cursing at PayPal is going to get you nowhere. Right now, you need to get them on your side.
You need to file a challenge on the reversal andthen follow it up with a phone call. Ask for the tracking information on the returned package. Explain that the item was never returned. And above all, the minute you lose your temper with them, you are going to lose the challenge.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 20, 2006 11:01:47 PM new
My situation from PP said you need to work that out with your Buyer,,,, hahahahhaha, the BUYER had NO intentions of EVER sending BACK the product and they NEVER did!
posted on May 21, 2006 05:37:18 AM new
fenix is correct. Paypal will refund the buyer prior to the item being returned, my guess is they do this to avoid the buyer doing a chargeback. It's a reversal of the usual process, if the seller can't prove with online tracking, the item was sent the buyer gets a refund. In your case, the buyer has to prove with online tracking the item was returned or paypal will put the $$ back in your account. I've had this happen and paypal will refund you.
posted on May 21, 2006 05:49:16 AM new
Paypal would only refund the buyer once the DC shows it has been returned.
My guess is that your buyer shipped something to your area with the same zipcode and the packages was scanned by your post office.It could be an empty box or it could be some worthless stuff addressed to someone in your neighborhood or just plain 'current resident',as long as your neigbor does not return the item,it is deemed delivered.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on May 21, 2006 06:27:32 AM new
Well I get a note back from paypal- I sent a letter to them appealing the decision - I said in the letter - she waited two weeks to return the item - I meant to say "file a return for the item" - I was so upset! They said based on that i said she returned the item in the appeal (which I meant to say file for a return --- they returned the money to her! I said wait a minute! I meant to say she waited two weeks before FILING A RETURN! anyway aren't they suppose to go by the policy of a tracking number before they issue any refunds?
I emailed the buyer and told her if I don't get my merchandise back I am going to sue her in small claims court. I mean it. If I have to get on a plane and travel to Los Angeles the BEE A tch is not going to rip me off - she said in an email back to me that she had the tracking numbers - well where are they? If I have it in an email that she said she has the tracking numbers and she never sends back the item don't you think I could win in small claims court? I have a free place to stay in los Angeles anyway. I would also sue her for expenses.----I also had a couple of thousand dollars in paypal - I withdrew it immediately and only left enough for misc purchases. I will NEVER trust them with my money again. I was going to put the two grand in their money market - NEVER I will never ever trust these two faced theives again in my life - they issued a refund without a tracking number- I am just blown away. ALso my integrity as a seller has been tarnished. I know my merchandise and I had to verify with ebay before I could list this item that it was indeed vintage. I am so pissed.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 21, 2006 06:35 AM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 21, 2006 06:38 AM ]
posted on May 21, 2006 07:23:44 AM new
::Fenix is correct. Paypal will refund the buyer prior to the item being returned, my guess is they do this to avoid the buyer doing a chargeback.::
I never said that. The only time PayPal will refund a "not as described" item before it is returned is if you don't respond to the complaint. When they send you the notice, if you state that you will give a refund if the item is returned, the buyer gets 10 days to provide tracking information on the return or it's dropped. If you don't respond at all, they with give the buyer the refund and allow them to keep the item.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
So let me get this straight.... you got pissed off and fired up and didn't pay attention to what you were writing and told PayPal that the buyer had returned the item to you and you are pissed off and blaming them for issueing the refund?
I guess it's all PayPals fault because they failed to hire psychics that could read your email and know you did not actually mean what you said. Why would they need a tracking number when you yourself stated that the item had been returned?
I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure how it is that you can hold them responsible for reading and acting upon your actual words as opposed to your intended but non existent words.
Lessen to be learned here....NEVER send the draft you write when you are mad. Write it, vent on it, scream yell and curse in it... then delete it and come back the next day to send the actual response.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
[ edited by fenix03 on May 21, 2006 07:33 AM ]
posted on May 21, 2006 08:12:47 AM new
You may want to call USPS at their 800 number and give them the tracking number and ask them to forward it to your local post office and ask if anyone recalls delivering this package.
Nothing Paypal can do for you now,and you are not going to win in small claims court,the filing fee would be more than 57 dollars(or is it 54??)
You may also want to consider hiring a collection agency just to harrass her or contact the local police and see if they will do something.
Another option is to file mail fraud with USPS,they will forward a copy to her local police and both will send her copies asking her to do something>
/ lets all stop whining !! /
[ edited by hwahwa on May 21, 2006 08:15 AM ]
posted on May 21, 2006 08:28:12 AM new
All the buyer would need is a copy of your letter to Paypal and your trip to small claims will be on your nickel, plus any monies they can file against you for brining them into court.
You messed up with your letter and can now claim anything you want but your written word says otherwise.
posted on May 21, 2006 09:22:00 AM new
Yes I should have acted instead of reacting - now i screwed myself I'm afraid. I guess I'm just going to have to chalk this up to experience - not once in 6 years have i ever been accused for shipping an item not as described - I emailed her demanding she return my merchandise - she said she regards my email as harrassment and will turn them over to paypal? Since when does paypal have jurisdiction over my email? I never Harassred her, I told her that it is not harrassment to expect my merchandise be returned. I just loathe paypal. I wish I could kick their no count azzes out of my auctions for good and close the account but most people pay for their goods with it so it looks like I'm stuck with them. This is another reason why I am not ever getting and EBAY PRO STORE - I'm not getting into to bed with Ebay so tight they rule my entire financial life. This was just plain wrong to refund the ho bag. I shipped the merchandise, she got it, used and got her money back and kept it (as of this point) The entire thing just makes me sick. There should be a time limit of 3 days from delivery to file a claim. Anylonger than that is inviting scammers not real buyers. A person knows upon opening the box if they got ripped or not. This policy stinks and it is at the seller's expense. I friggin hate it.
posted on May 21, 2006 10:06:42 AM new
I still don't understand why it is you think that its PayPals fault that you told them the buyer had returned the merchandise.
I guess it's just easier to blame them than to accept that you let your temper screw you.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 21, 2006 10:16:42 AM new
'I said in the letter - she waited two weeks to return the item - I meant to say "file a return for the item" - I was so upset! They said based on that i said she returned the item in the appeal (which I meant to say file for a return --- they returned the money to her!'
Where do you say that she returned the item? Yes, you do say that "she waited two weeks to return the item." However, that does not imply to me that the item has been returned.
I see where you meant to state that she waited two weeks to seek a return for the item. In fact, it could just as easily be assumed that is what you meant in your initial letter.
posted on May 21, 2006 10:26:25 AM new
::Where do you say that she returned the item? Yes, you do say that "she waited two weeks to return the item." However, that does not imply to me that the item has been returned.::
Oh please
Where is that common sense tag line of mine when I need it?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 21, 2006 10:44:43 AM new
Fenix is exactly correct.
So what can the OP do? Lest he suffer apoplexy, bleeding ulcers or the need for an anger management course, move on. Geez, I trust his email to PayPal was less, shall we say forceful?, than the diatribes above.
I hope I never waste so much of my energy on a $57 item (though I suppose my post actually falls into the wasted energy category!). Things happen, things break, things get stolen, things get lost -- all part of doing business on or off the internet, with or without those evil eBay and PayPal companies.
posted on May 21, 2006 11:15:13 AM new
Look I agree, it is true just because I said she waited two weeks to return the item does not imply I received the item - According to paypal you are suppose to provide tracking numbers - tracking numbers end all dicussion and debate
As far as my return only being a 57.00 item and not worth the energy? why not? the principle is the same whether it is 57.00 or 570.00? Does a big injustice have a bigger price tag for you than a small injustice? if there was a little bit tiny bit of dog crap in your brownie would you still eat it?
posted on May 21, 2006 11:56:17 AM new
Right - you never said that you received it so go with that. Paypal should reopen it until she provides a tracking number.
You could have been just repeating what she told you???
I do hope you have the energy to fight it but I can tell you from experience that it takes it tole! A month from now you will look at your sales and say "What happened to my income??"
posted on May 21, 2006 12:25:18 PM new
kozersky-
you said-Now, hwahwa is wrong in that you can not add on the filing fees to your claim. You can in CA. However, I do not believe you can add the expense of flying to LA. You will have to ask the court clerk. Do you live in CA? If so, you can file in your local court.
////////////////////////////////////////////
I did not say she can or she cannot add the filing fee,I mean to say is it worth it as the filing fee is more than the amount in dispute,not to mention all the travel expenses and time not selling on Ebay
??
Based on my recent experience with small claims court in Texas,they will go thru mediation first to reach an agreement or if there is no agreement,they can then go in front of the judge .
Say if the seller wins,then the next question is how is she going to collect the money??slap a lien on her property or pay 67 dollars for writ execution whereby a sheriff will go to her place and seize enough goods to be auctioned off to raise cash.
writ execution works beautifully if she has a store,the sherriff will just walk in and seize to his heart content,but does she have a store??
I dont think the sheriff can just march into a person's home and start removing painting,pots and pants and carpet from the home??
As to slapping lien on her house,what if she does not sell her house or she has no house or no significant property ?
People would just show up in court and lie and lie,so if they are sworn to tell the truth,what can you do??
posted on May 21, 2006 12:46:04 PM new
From my experience with THREE NASTY TRANSACTIONS over this past year, I've been pleasantly surprised about the level of HIGH QUALITY CUSTOMER SERVICE I received from PayPal...
Each time I contacted them, they were: COURTEOUS + HELPFUL + WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to explain the situations to me...
FAR BETTER than that nasty ole ShrillPoint that feeBay used to try and shove down our throats...REMEMBER them??
Basically, PayPal proved to me that they ARE at least trying to HELP the sellers avoid losing moola during contested transactions...
PLEASE REMEMBER: with CREDIT CARD SALES, due to FEDERAL LAW (??is it: FAIR CREDIT,etc,ACT??), we sellers have VERY FEW rights compared to the purchasers!
Those of you with MERCHANT ACCOUNTS can attest, I think, to some horror stories with unwarranted CHARGEBACKS???~!!!
Of course PayPal ain't perfect! But, the amazing thing is how wonderfully problem-free it usually works!
Each transaction should be viewed as a GAMBLE (just as with any CREDIT CARD sale with a regular MERCHANT ACCOUNT) and one should always heed:
RALPHIE'S FIRST LAW OF HIGH FINANCE:
"Never accept a PayPal payment for an amount greater than yer willing to EAT!"
posted on May 21, 2006 12:50:00 PM newBattle-of-NO:
Ralphie reminds everyone that, although you may no longer have RECOURSE thru PayPal or feeBay, you should follow up with at least the THREAT of contacting the POSTAL INSPECTORS or other LEA!
This has worked wonders in the past for us -- try it, you never know...ya just might end up with a map to Jimmy Hoffa's bones & ya could sell THAT fur MUCHO BUCKERoooos!
posted on May 21, 2006 02:18:24 PM new
Get on judge Judy or Joe Brown show I have seen several ebay transactions on them. LOL
Good luck in getting something back.
**************
Some minds are like concrete,
thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
posted on May 21, 2006 03:16:38 PM new
kozersky - Your method sounds good.
One question though and a little OT. You stated "orleans - I forgot to mention that I am going to clear my posts before the morning. It seems that my Vendio posts usually appear in a google search. Since my posts are for the eyes of this board, I usually erase, before the spiders come, so that others do not profit from any information.".
May be a dumb question but why? You don't want other people to see helpful information? If you don't want people to see what you write I would suggest sending personal emails instead of posting on a forum that can be viewed by anyone, anywhere and anytime. Just seems like a silly policy to me and a waste of time. Not to mention that after you remove your post the discussion becomes a little perplexing. Anyone who post after you in reference to your comments would then make no sense.
Ahhh, I know the sollution. I'll just post your reply and then it will be here for ever.
posted by kozersky on May 21, 2006 01:42:16 PM Hey, this is a good discussion.
I bet some of you would claim that a party is guilty because they were indicted by a Grand Jury. Or, if a merchant made a mistake and marked your bill paid, he had no recourse.
Look, for a ten dollar bill, the buyer and PayPal could each be sent Demand Letters by Certified Mail. This puts both parties on notice that orleansgallery has been harmed by the actions of both the buyer and PayPal. Furthermore, if the parties do not cure the wrong by either, returning the purse in saleable condition, or a refund of the money taken from orleans, orleans intends to pursue the matter further.
The letters should both be typed in Times New Roman, 12 font, for professional appearance. There should be a demand in the first paragraph and then a factual description of the events which verify your claim in the first paragraph.
The demand is based upon the legal principle of unjust enrichment. The buyer has been unjustly enriched by having both the purse and the money paid for the purse.
If you do just the letters, there would not be much time lost. Also you can add "compensatory damages" the filing fees, and cost of service to the purse price. Further, you may also ask the court to add the cost of your transportation to LA as "punitive damages" for the fraudulent activity of the buyer. They should be added to the price of the purse along with the Certified letter fees, and included in the Demand Letter. You can not add the cost of your time.
" ... damages: Money that the losing side must pay to the winning side to make up for losses or injuries. There are 2 kinds of damages: (1) "compensatory," meaning money to pay for the actual cost of an injury or loss; and (2)"punitive" or "exemplary," meaning an amount of money thats more than the actual damages. This is a punishment for willful or malicious acts."
In what State do you live? If you live in CA., the process is much simpler, as I believe that you can file in your home county, where the purse was sold.
Oh, in CA., you proceed directly to court, and then to arbitration, if you ask for it. The Court has to approve the arbitration request.
See what develops from the Demand Letter, and proceed from there.
Now, that takes care of small claims. I note that you mention that ebay now requires you to verify the condition of your items before they will accept for auction. Is this correct?
[ edited by kozersky on May 21, 2006 01:54 PM ]
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
posted on May 21, 2006 03:59:55 PM new
orleansgallery,
Take a few deep breaths and calm down. PayPal is a faceless business entity interested in covering their behind and not yours. Your gripe is with the buyer that seems to have used PayPal to facilitate Mail Fraud, namely 'obtaining goods by deception' and you need to follow the advise of earlier posters and send a well thought out Demand Letter by Certified Mail to the buyer. Explain that if you don't receive your item back in original condition within <insert number> days from receipt of said Demand Letter, that you will be forced to take legal action to recover your item plus your substantial costs, mental anguish (the usual litany of ancillary complaints to pad the bill)...
You can find numerous examples of Demand Letters using Google.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein