posted on March 19, 2007 02:07:11 PM new
I recently sold an item on eBay for $2400 (was a bit surprised the bids got that high, but of course it takes more than one bidder to drive it up there - I started it out at $99) and the buyer is now having buyer's remorse and said they are mailing it back to me. My return policy is to only accept return items that I have grossly misrepresented. This is not the case here. I described it in great detail, included close-up photos of all marks, described markings, took many photos, and also mentioned that I didn't know anything about it and said to PLEASE ask questions BEFORE bidding. So I don't feel that I did anything wrong on my part in representing the item. But because it was paid for via PayPal, they want me to return their funds through PayPal. Guess what? That money has been withdrawn already. They have not yet filed a dispute with PayPal, but I know it is their next step. So, my questions are...
1) Should they get their money back if I don't feel I misrepresented the item and described it in detail?
2) If I have zero in PayPal, how can they get their funds returned?
3) What happens to my PayPal account in the meantime? If I list on eBay, should I run auctions and only accept checks and MO until things have been resolved?
4) If they ship the item back to me, am I obligated to refund? And if I don't accept shipment, will the item be returned to sender/buyer?
I'm sure some of you have dealt with this situation, any advice? Thanks!
posted on March 19, 2007 02:51:44 PM new
I would call PayPal, get the name of the person who advises you. I went to PayPal's Seller Protection FAQ page and found it very wishy-washy about the $5,000 Seller Protection. I know you have only 10 days to contact PayPal or they absolve themselves of any liability. I don't doubt they will try to help you fight the chargeback, but they say you're not covered by Seller's Protection if the chargeback occurs before the dispute has been settled???
posted on March 19, 2007 03:21:13 PM new
whatever it is, I hope you know it is yours when they return it. You get nowhere with PayPal. I know. Took 6 weeks for me to finally get an answer and I dropped the whole thing. If you had other bids, how about a 2nd chance offer or just relist it. Its too much hassle to go through otherwise. Who knows, you might get even more on the bids.
posted on March 19, 2007 04:19:15 PM new
Paypal gives buyer and seller 7-10 days to work out the difference,but either party can opt to escalate to get Paypal involved during the period.
If seller does not respond during the 7-10 days period,then Paypal with side with the buyer.
If you lose and there is no fund in your account,Paypal will debit your account and any future payments coming in with be used to offset that deficit until it is paid off.For that kind of money,say if you decide never to use Paypal again,you will be hearing from their legal dept.
If you refuse to accept his return,and he cannot get Paypal to side with him ,he will file chargeback with his cc issuer and show proof of return,you will lose the chargeback and he will get to keep the item free.
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Lets all stop whining !
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[ edited by hwahwa on Mar 19, 2007 04:20 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2007 04:33:03 PM new
CtA wrote: I recently sold an item on eBay for $2400 (was a bit surprised the bids got that high, but of course it takes more than one bidder to drive it up there - I started it out at $99) and the buyer is now having buyer's remorse and said they are mailing it back to me. My return policy is to only accept return items that I have grossly misrepresented.
By accepting PayPal, you accept their Terms and Conditions which override your own. Yes, it unfair but that's life and yes, you did agree to it. I hope you read and understood what you signed.
1) Should they get their money back if I don't feel I misrepresented the item and described it in detail?
Doesn't matter what you (or we Vendioans) think. PayPal is the sole arbiter of fact and will act as judge, jury and executioner in all disputes.
2) If I have zero in PayPal, how can they get their funds returned?
PayPal will freeze whatever funds are in your account until the amount owing is recovered. All incoming payments will go to pay off that debt. For larger amounts PayPal may engage the services of a debt collector.
3) What happens to my PayPal account in the meantime? If I list on eBay, should I run auctions and only accept checks and MO until things have been resolved?
See above. You should change the email address(es) on your PayPal account to something different than your eBay account otherwise illiterate buyers in future auctions will pay you via PayPal and you'll never see the money. (It'll be sucked into a black hole call 'existing debt'.)
Checks and MO are a safer bet until the situation is resolved. Or if you are outside the USA, domestic bank transfers are even better since they are free in most OECD countries. Other options are for international sales are BidPay, MoneyBookers and AuctionChex.
4) If they ship the item back to me, am I obligated to refund? And if I don't accept shipment, will the item be returned to sender/buyer?
You are never under any obligation to accept a return, and until the item is returned, you don't need to refund. If you refuse acceptance of the returned item it'll normally go back to the buyer/sender. Mind you items that are ping-ponged through the mail system occasionally get mislaid or lost. Also be aware of the popular "Buy, Switch and Return" scam where a buyer returns their own old or damaged product for the seller's new one. In any case tell the buyer that you can't refund until you have the product returned so you can verify that your "special" marks or the serial number, etc. are intact, i.e. bluff the buyer with these points as you probably didn't make note of them or use a UV pen.
Finally, as a seller you should be aware that PayPal's protection priorities are:
1) PayPal not being out any money,
2) The buyer not being out any money,
3) The seller not being out any money
posted on March 19, 2007 06:57:39 PM new
It looks like the buyer chose to do the chargeback through their credit card company, not through Paypal. The credit card company whacked PayPal for it, who whacked you for it. PayPal can protest the chargeback, but if the credit card company doesn't budge or engage in arbitration with PayPal, I'm afraid you're out the money. Accepting the return may be your safest bet, but how can you make sure you're signing for the same product in the same condition you shipped it?
posted on March 19, 2007 07:08:44 PM new
Paypal member is allowed only one premier/business account with multiple email addresses and bank accounts.
It makes no difference which email addr you ask your buyer to send paypal payment to,it will land in the same account .
Now that Ebay owns Paypal,does anyone know if Ebay will get involved if we owe Paypal money??
Like Ebay may suspend us??
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Lets all stop whining !
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posted on March 19, 2007 07:14:07 PM new
Paypal would not bother to protest or protect,it will email Cta a chargeback has been filed so please transfer fund from the bank to cover it.There is also a 10 dollars chargeback fee he has to pay.
It will at the same time restrict his account so called one way restriction,payment can come in but no fund can be withdrawn or used to pay for purchases.
You are better off refunding your buyer once he returns the item in good order.
I doubt if this is a case of switch-a-roo,the buyer just figured he overpaid.Typical Ebay mania!
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posted on March 19, 2007 08:16:15 PM new
hwahwa wrote: It makes no difference which email addr you ask your buyer to send paypal payment to,it will land in the same account .
If you remove your eBay registered email address from your PayPal account, then all future PayPal incoming payments will not be credited to your PayPal account. They will sit in cyberspace as uncollected funds. This is another reason why savvy sellers choose to have different email addresses for their PayPal and eBay accounts - it allows them to effectively deny unwanted incoming payments.
posted on March 19, 2007 08:34:13 PM new
Hwahwah- it is in Paypal's best interest to protest the chargeback and they have a special team to do it. Why wouldn't they make the attempt? Have you experienced a time when they didn't?
posted on March 20, 2007 06:53:18 AM new
Paypal team has seen so many chargebacks,they can smell a bad one coming!
Something listed on Ebay at 99 dollars and got bidded up to over 2k,buyer got the item and figured he overpaid so he wants his money back.
Think !-it happens on Ebay(the fleabay of the world),it is sold by an individual from home,it is not worth 2k,it has been returned ,is that enough?
It is my understanding that any credit card purchase can be returned and refund should be given if returned in good order.If the retailer refuses to accept the return merchandise,the customer gets to keep the item and the retailer loses the chargeback.
I have 3 cases -
I bought a piece of stone carving from a store which caters to tourists in New Orleans,they have 'no return' printed on their sales receipt,when I tried to return it by mail,they refused and I won the chargeback and get to keep the carving(I paid a few thouand dollars for the piece).
I bot some old jade pieces on Ebay,it turns out to be glass and so I returned it,he was not home and his neighbor signed for it.
He was mad and refused to issue a refund,I reported him to Ebay and the USPS Fraud division,he refunded my money and got thrown out of Ebay.
Now the last case is a shop which framed a print for me,he did not use the material and method as agreed upon,I went to the store and left the material behind without getting a receipt and they refused to give me a receipt or refund,my credit card issuer said since I have no receipt , they cannot reverse the charge,but they gave me some money out of the goodness of their heart(it is MBNA and they have an insurance arm which issues sympathy $$ for good customers).I have to go to arbitration to get the rest of my money back.
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Lets all stop whining !
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posted on March 20, 2007 06:59:47 AM new
hwahwa wrote: It makes no difference which email addr you ask your buyer to send paypal payment to,it will land in the same account .
If you remove your eBay registered email address from your PayPal account, then all future PayPal incoming payments will not be credited to your PayPal account. They will sit in cyberspace as uncollected funds. This is another reason why savvy sellers choose to have different email addresses for their PayPal and eBay accounts - it allows them to effectively deny unwanted incoming payments.
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I hope these savvy sellers do not make a habit of doing this,it defeats the purpose of selling on Ebay !
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Lets all stop whining !
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posted on March 20, 2007 08:30:29 AM new
I know if you accept the return - paypal will refund the full payment including shipping cost. They won't (don't) listen to a word you say or write - the matter is over - refund granted.
But at least this way you have the item back and can do a Second Chance or relist.
I don't know what happens if they return it and you refuse to accept it. Sounds like they can still get a refund. Good reason not to take Paypal on an expense item.
posted on March 20, 2007 04:07:12 PM new
I don't see anyone not involving PP one way or the other unless you refund partial payment then PP can only refund the remaining if they decide in the customers favor if they do eventually get involved.
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