posted on August 21, 2008 11:47:49 AM new
Ebay has forgotten how they came to be in existance.... here's a little reminder for them:
1) They were built on Checks and Money orders... in fact they became a multi-billion dollar company based on sales done ONLY through Checks and Money orders. It wasn't until people realized that there were billions of dollars in commissions to collect upon that electronic payment options were developed.
2) They were built by small sellers. Small sellers were good enough to turn eBay into a huge company... but now... they're just in the way, as eBay courts the big guys.
3) They were built on a trusting community... now all you here are accusations of fraud, encouragement to leave negative feedback, and warnings about trusting anyone (except them, of course)
4) They were built as an auction site... a place where the bidders could determine fair market value of items that couldn't be found just anywhere... now they want to cater to mass production goods sold with fast turnaround
5) Simplicity... they used to actually market to seller's that it was easy to sell things on eBay (and it was!)... now you need a law degree just to get through the first few pages of the user agreement.
6) Flexibility... they were built as a place where sellers could sell things by their own terms, and buyers were expected to honor those terms... now everything must conform to rigid guidelines, and the buyers are not held to any accountability
I could go on...and on... and on... but what's the point... because eBay has forgotten how to listen too...
posted on August 21, 2008 01:05:29 PM new
eBay is looking more and more like a "company" rather than a "venue". They may someday regret this apparent shift and may be forced to accept some responsibilities they've avoided in the past.
posted on August 21, 2008 08:27:55 PM new
I don't love all the ebay changes, but to play devil's advocate
1) Most companies were built on checks and money orders because that was the only choice available. There are a lot of places you can't write a check to anymore. Most business simply won't take them. It will only be a matter of time before grocery stores stop taking them too.
2) Many companies start small, and then become big and look for bigger customers. That's not an unprecedented thing. If you own a business, a customer who brings you 20% of your revenue is simply going to be treated differently than someone who brings you 1/100 of a 1%. As a consultant, I've actually fired a couple of clients because they weren't spending enough money with me to be taking up as much of my time as they wanted to take up.
3) A trusting community is a pipe dream. There has always been rip-offs and fraud on ebay. I've been with them since early 1997, though I knew about them earlier and was resistant. I only became a registered seller on ebay after they paid me to do some advertising on a collectible website I was running (man, I wish I had taken a stock option, this was 1996 before they went public)
4) Auctions for many items were great in 1998, because it was new and fun. Fast forward 10 years, and most items are simply not worthy of putting up for auction. If ebay were to limit themselves to collectibles only, they would have only been a niche player in the ecommerce revolution. They made their money by expanding.
5) It is more complicated now to sell on ebay, but then again everything is more complicated. When I got my first cel phone in 1996, I could make telephone calls with it and nothing more. Now, my cel phone can do about 1000 other things for me. Is that bad? I guess it depends on your perspective.
6) The problem with own terms is that it ended up causing so many problems that people were leaving. I actually stopped buying things on ebay because of this, and I used to do a decent amount of buying. I got tired of the games sellers played, so except for a few items I can get for my business, I don't buy on ebay anymore. Maybe this will bring me back.
posted on August 21, 2008 08:41:03 PM new
Some valid points. However, I'm not sure your first point is correct. So far, I've not run into any businesses that won't take my check. That being said, I think it is up to the seller (business) to make that decision. On eBay, I'm the seller and I think I should have the say as to what form of payment I accept. eBay is NOT my "employer" and I pay them for the services I receive from them. As the "boss" in my business, I feel that the form of payment I will accept is my business decison, not eBays.
posted on August 21, 2008 09:07:52 PM new
I see all sorts of signs at businesses that used to accept checks that they no longer do - not even traveler's checks.
As far as ebay not having a say as far as what form of payment you accept, they already have a say in what you can and can not sell. There are a lot of items that you can not sell because ebay says you can not sell it.
I agree with you about the checks actually, it is in my opinion something that is bad - even though most of my customers pay by paypal, not all do and I may lose those that don't. There are a LOT of people who do not want to have money traced, thus they use money orders. These people will leave ebay. It is simply a way for ebay to control more of the market. I don't like it either, but I concede that ebay has a right to do this, against the objection of most merchants (including me)
posted on August 22, 2008 01:45:44 AM new
Heck- does anyone else remember counter checks? If mom was low on checks or left hers at home - she would ask the grocery clerk for a counter check and write in her bank and account number. I must be getting old to dredge that up...
posted on August 22, 2008 07:53:31 AM new
All are good points but it really comes down to it's ebay site and they are going to run it the way they want to run it. I'm sure the powers that be must feel the changes they are making are (for the most part) the best for the buyers.
The "paypal only" would be the biggest exception - that was a decision made to increase their bottom line. They can sugar coat it anyway they want to but it's still very transparent.
posted on August 22, 2008 08:48:35 AM new
ebayvet,
You certainly raise some relevant points as well... but I'd like to try and refute them a little bit:
1) I think that saying "most business don't take them" is greatly exaggerating the facts. Probably most businesses DO take them... and although there are exceptions (I can think of several restaurants in our area off the top of my head) they also usually have alternatives for people to pay besides credit cards. I haven't found many brick-and-motor stores that don't take cash! By eliminating cash, checks and money orders... they are restricting the pool of bidders available and eliminating some people with poor credit (who may very well be some of the people who are most eager to find "deals" on eBay). Plus... eBay themselves are setting a double-standard. They accept checks/money orders as payment for their seller fees. They had not made any plans to change this, until someone pointed it out yesterday on a board, and a VP said that they had to do a bit of back-peddling saying that they'd look into revising their payment acceptance for fees (probably means they'll shortly accept only paypal payments).
2) I can't argue with a business's right to court clients that will give them larger return for their dollar. However, I worry that by eliminating the small sellers... buyers will lose both on variety, availability and customer service. eBay bidders seem to LIKE getting direct person-to-person service... and have grown to expect it. They just don't get that from the big guys (look at buy.com's ratings). If you lose out on some of this stuff... the buyers are going to start leaving. If the buyers leave... the big guys will go too. eBay's setting itself up for problems if it doesn't acknowledge that small sellers really do play an important part in their business plan.
3) While I acknowledge that fraud and rip-offs are always going to be a part of ANY business environment... I think that eBay has taken a VERY negative stance on it. It would be much more beneficial to encourage bidders to feel like they are in a trusted environment, rather than encourage them to be paranoid about everything. Many problems might possibly be resolved by simple seller-vetting procedures, so that you take care of problems on the seller side BEFORE they occur, rather than trying to clean up stuff afterwards. eBay just should realize that people feel safe buying on sites like Amazon, yet have an overwhelming fear of being ripped-off on eBay. Why? Because eBay encourages it.
4) eBay never needed to limit itself to just collectibles... however, they should have seriously considered limiting themselves to collectibles, rare items, used goods and maybe even liquidation items. That covers a LOT of different stuff... does it make them a niche market? Quite possibly. However, is that bad? Probably not... sometimes it's much better to concentrate on excelling in one area... rather than just doing alright in many. Think of all the headaches they could have saved in first deciding to market their auction stuff, then pushing fixed-price, then trying to revamp their core auctions, now back to fixed price. If you think us sellers are confused... think of the buyers! I think eBay really could have been just as successful, if not more so, if they had aggressively pursued this line of thought. At the very least they'd be more prepared for current market trends, where any company (big or small) can sell new stuff on their own website!
5) Ideal technological development does two things... it makes things work better... and it makes things work easier. It certainly could have been possible to introduce new features and abilities... and yet keep interfaces simple. Unfortunately all tech companies fall into this trap... and sometimes need to be reminded that simplicity can be just as appealing as functionality. Look at the iPhone. It's packed with features... yet MUCH easier to use than some competitor devices with even less ability.
6) I think this one both our points are probably about equally valid. Too much flexibility probably loses just as many bidders as too much rigidness will. A middle-ground compromise would have been nice, but probably is very difficult to implement.
Anyhow... just wanted to back up my points a little bit (a devil's advocate's view is always good!) Ladyjewel's right... it is eBay's site, and they can run it the way they want to. I don't believe that any decisions they make are for either the bidders or sellers benefit, however... it's always about eBay greed. I just think that eBay's running a huge risk of alienating a large portion of their user base which (due to so many other good available options) they will never get back. One thing's for sure, no matter what happens... eBay will never be the same.
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posted on August 22, 2008 10:19:13 AM new
And as I've said, I don't think a lot of the changes are really good in the long run. I think the backlash will be pretty big. There will still be money to be made, but you are right, ebay will never be the same.
What sellers need is a viable alternative to ebay. The current other sites just aren't going to work - they don't have enough resources to bring customers over. I think what may happen is the situation we had online from 1994-1997 when there were several players - and several niche players. I actually was late to the ebay game (signing on in 1997) because I was doing very well on a couple of niche collectible auction sites. They all went away with ebay getting huge, but perhaps some will make a comeback...we'll see.
posted on August 22, 2008 10:20:58 AM new
And what shows this might happen, right after I posted this, I went to the auctiobytes blog and Ina is talking about this very thing with antique dealers one ebay.
posted on August 22, 2008 01:55:19 PM new
I'll go one step further... A bank that has absolutely no regulatory oversight...
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Caroline