posted on January 21, 2002 08:54:38 PM new
Yup. Just as soon as some car dealers showed enough balls to actually start selling these gas savers, some jerk in the state legislature managed to sneak in a tax hike only for those who own the gas savers. It's a dis-incentive meant to keep gas guzzzlers on the road and to force out electric and hybrid autos.
You know, in order to discourage the want of Americans to own electric, alternative fuels, or hybrid cars, the manufacturers doubled the cost of the vehicles. Even so, Americans hate the oil companies so much that they are lining up to buy them -- but where are they? Slow and sluggish electric cars that need to be charged every 300 to 400 miles? Not a problem! Gimme one! Hydrogen fuel cells with tons of power that doesn't pollute, causes little wear and tear on the engine, and the source is not dependant OPEC and Bush Oil Empires? The waiting line is double! And simple, gas/electric hybrids -- which are a lousey solution admittedly, is still far better than gasoline lines at the pumps and being at the mercy of Oil refineries.
So, if there is a *HUGE* demand and the technology is for it is only 70 or so years old -- what's the hold-up? Need I say it? B-U-S-H + B-I-G O-I-L!
posted on January 22, 2002 09:45:32 AM new
Borillar
You're getting silly on me again.
1) The Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, and GM EV are heavily subsidized by the manufactures and are basically design studies by them.
2) GM can't give away the EV, the Toyota isn't selling well (though it's not bad actually), and the Honda I haven't checked lately.
3) Fuel cells are many years away as a commodity item, and are tremendously expensive. Commercial use of fuel cells is in its infancy, though it has started.
4) Hydrogen is a nightmare of transport, distribution, and containment problems.
5) The hybrids get about 50mpg in the real world. Say you need a new battery pack 6 or seven years from now. It will be THOUSANDS of dollars to replace it. Translate that into fuel costs and what do you get? 30mpg, 25?, 20?
6) The internal combustion engine has been in continuous development for a century. NOTHING can touch a modern engine in the overall. It is amazing how little pollution modern vehicles produce. Remember years ago when half the suicides were by car in closed garage. Well it's hard to do now.
Wanna do your bit for ecology? Run out and buy a Honda Civic. Even better, take it out on the highway and take out that woman with the baby seat driving the Excursion.
You could do more in a single stroke by making these rolling land yacht death-traps commercial vehicles and taxing the mommies and big burly dudes that have to have them accordingly.
posted on January 22, 2002 12:48:51 PM new
If you want info on the EV, Prius, or Insight pick up the last 3 or 4 years of Car & Driver or Road & Track.
If anyone is standing in your way for that hybrid, you just drop me a line and tell me who they are. I'll take care of him.
Meanwhile, we can ship you out a emergency supply. I'll call my friend at World Honda and we'll fix you up right away.
Also if you feel the need to delve into Chemistry, Physics, Engineering or computer science, I suggest you not go there.
posted on January 22, 2002 04:13:26 PM new
There is a story out about an Irish inventor who has been demonstrating a "Zero Point" energy device- that is an engine that can run for long periods of time without fuel after just an initial spark. Most such engines and alternative fuels have been either ignored or secretly "bought out" by certain undisclosed interests. They can't be ignored forever, and eventually if brought to market some governmental/energy interest will find a way to make money on it.
posted on January 22, 2002 05:39:31 PM new"1) The Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, and GM EV are heavily subsidized by the manufactures and are basically design studies by them."
Speaking of Road & Car, I've been reading about these hybrid cars now since the late 1960s. It's hardly the sort of technology needed to send astronauts to mars -- you know what I mean?
"2) GM can't give away the EV, the Toyota isn't selling well (though it's not bad actually), and the Honda I haven't checked lately."
In case it hasn't been obvious to you, but there's a slow-down of the economy in progress. The news is full of automobile manufacturers who can't unload their inventories -- even with mass incentives. Hybrid cars that are doubled in price to discourage ownership isn't faring so well either. Go figure!
"3) Fuel cells are many years away as a commodity item, and are tremendously expensive. Commercial use of fuel cells is in its infancy, though it has started."
Tell that to the L.A. Transit System, where hydrogen fuel buses have been in use since the early 1990s. Sure, it was a trial-run at first to work out the kinks, but three years ago, L.A. ordered that their entire fleet be converted ASAP. Testing is over with. Distribution of Hydrogen and the training necessary for its handling is what is behind. But if we can send a man to the moon in less than a decade 40 years ago, I can't see why major cities aren't anywhere near providing it for the common person.
"5) The hybrids get about 50mpg in the real world. Say you need a new battery pack 6 or seven years from now. It will be THOUSANDS of dollars to replace it. Translate that into fuel costs and what do you get? 30mpg, 25?, 20?"
You know, this Hybrid idea is hogwash to begin with! It has that promise that methadone did for heroin addicts back in the 1960s and 1970s. And I feel its just a nonsense answer to try to appease folks like me who are mad as hell and won't take it anymore!
Speaking of batteries, in the 1980s, I had a customer take me to the parking lot to show me his hand-converted automobile. It was a small, foreign import, like a small Audi. He lifted the front hood and there sat four regular car batteries rigged up to a large electric motor where the gasoline/diesel engine should have been. The motor was from a large electric forklift that ran on 48 volts. He said that he got about 300 miles per charge and to watch him drive out of the parking lot. I didn't understand what he meant by that until traffic cleared in both direction and he floored it and tore out of there, peeling tires and burning rubber for half a block! So please, please don't try to feed me that horseshit the corporations are misleading us with about electric cars and the costs of replacement batteries!
"6) The internal combustion engine has been in continuous development for a century."
>>>BWAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!<<<< Nonsense! While the rest of science has progressed by incredible leaps and bounds, the gasoline engine is basically the same thing that it has always been over 120 years ago! That there are some MINOR modifications that allow for better pollution controls, the basic design and efficiency of the engine hasn't improved nearly at all in the last 12 decades! Please -- no more horseshit -- it's killing me! BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!
posted on January 22, 2002 05:47:04 PM new"There is a story out about an Irish inventor who has been demonstrating a "Zero Point" energy device-"
Absolutely! My point exactly! There are so many alternative ways to get automobiles about WITHOUT petrolium products as fuel! What about that very workable idea where your engine is a giant gyroscope and during the night, you plug it into the elecrical outlet and let it spin itself up. Then, during the day, you let it apply itself to a motor that takes you about all day long. or, what about alchohol? Farmers have been running their vehicles since the turn of the last century on it. You compost it, mulch it, and create it a dozen ways. So long as there's decay, you make fuel. And the output from buring the hydrogen in alchohol is pure water fromthe tailpipe! Abundant, never-ending supply, 100% non-polluting, and and far, far less dangerous to use than gasoline is, let alone hydrogen fuel!
Please. The technology is there, the ditribution system is there (or could be with little effort), and there is a HIGH demand for these devices. All we get are excuses from the automobile industry and vehicles prohibiiviely priced and too expensive to replace! Can you say: REPUBLICANS?
posted on January 22, 2002 10:06:07 PM new
1) Duhhhhhh. Space shuttles like solar cells are not commercially competitive. Neither was Wally Minto's "Freon" engine, Smokey Yunick's "Adiabatic" engine, or Santa's Sleigh.
2) Either the public is prevented from buying these wonders because of the oil companies or the economy, which is it"??
3) Hydrogen gas does not come from a fuel cell. Fuel cells produce electricity and water. Hydrogen has to be stored under very high pressures and low temperatures, making the storage vessels and delivery system very large and heavy. Ok for a bus, but a few decades away from the family Pinto.
Some companies are beginning to market fuel cells for use as emergency power supplies for critical functions. The catalysing materials make these extremely expensive, kinda like for spacecraft, you know.
5) Hybrids are meant for the real world, not Planet Borillar. How would you charge your millions of electric cars, assuming people could be forced to live with their limitations. I know! Coal fired power plants!
6) An incredibly stupid and totally uninformed statement for you to make at which any engineer would burst out laughing.
Isn't it a little strange that the rest of the world has fuel prices that can reach $5-$6/gallon and they drive small light vehicles with highly tuned high compression gasoline engines? They must all be part of the conspiracy.
I heard the Irish guy was bunking with the dudes from England working on cold fusion.
Really, Borillar, you should have dropped that Sociology course that one semester and taken Physics. Perpetual motion machines are impossible. You could have avoided all that angst.
posted on January 23, 2002 09:28:31 AM new"Isn't it a little strange that the rest of the world has fuel prices that can reach $5-$6/gallon "
It's not strange at all when you happen to know the reason. The reason being is that other countries - like Germany, tack the majority of their taxes onto energy costs. If you strip all taxes off of a gallon of gas in Germany and in the USA, you'll find that they are roughly the same price. It is the amount of taxes that drives up the price from country to country.
As for the rest - DeSquirrel, you are entitled to your opinion. It does not make it any truer than your previous statements, but they are yours and you may have them.
posted on January 23, 2002 04:22:03 PM new
"It's not strange at all when you happen to know the reason."
I KNOW the reason, but you missed the point again. If you pay $6/gallon and an alternate vehicle cost the equivalent of $5/gal, the public would flock to them.
"you are entitled to your opinion. It does not make it any truer"
I haven't expressed "opinions". I can't see any reference here which is not a fact.
