posted on August 4, 2004 10:54:43 PM new
I hear the book Vietnam Vets for Truth, or whatever are publishing a book which will be out next week. Should be interesting. Probably better than Michael Moore so call movie.
posted on August 5, 2004 09:53:09 AM new
All of them Reamond? Did you put your browser on the picture and see how many of his swiftboat partners there was on his side.
If they are lying how come there are so many of them.
Who ever wins the election be it Kerry or Bush I hope things will get easier.
posted on August 5, 2004 10:45:30 AM new
How do I know ? I remember the little weasel O'Neil from the 1970s. He didn't serve with Kerry either but worked for Nixon. Nixon got him to spread all kinds of lies about Kerry then. O'Neil is behind this pack of lies too.
But whatever anyone thinks of Kerry's medals, at least Kerry didn't desert, Kerry was in harms way.
Bush sat the war out in an over staffed NG unit and deserted to boot.
Disclaimer: For 12pole and other fools, Reamond did not write this article.
McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit
Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
The White House declined.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.
"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.
The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.
"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."
Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."
McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.
"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.
In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.
McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."
"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's "right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not."
McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day -- Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."
Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.
posted on August 5, 2004 11:18:30 AM new
The fact is Kerry served his country, and Bush went AWOL. I can guarantee you this issue will come up during this years debates. I cant wait to see how bush explains his military record.
posted on August 5, 2004 11:45:37 AM new
Poobear says, "Apparentlu kerry missed the day in basic training in which it was taught "you don't give comfort & aid to the enemy".
Apparently Bush missed the day in basic training in which it was taught to show up !!
posted on August 5, 2004 01:08:38 PM newSo Reamond you are discounting the statement from the doctor who treated Kerrys first wound.
He's not the first Nixonesque conservative that would lie.
Why arent [b]all]/b] of Kerrys former crewmates ready to testify as to his heroics.
Some don't want all the attention that coming forward brings.
Answer, they know he is a paper tiger and a liar.
A man that goes into combat is a paper tiger and a liar ? I can only guess then what you must think of a deserter like Bush. You must want Bush to be put in prison.
All of the 13 vets that supported him at the convention, were not assigned to the same boat as Kerry.
The ones that I heard speak all served with Kerry. But there are literally thousands of vets that did not serve with Kerry, and it is also clear that there are some vets that will lie about Kerry to further their own political agenda.
Apparentlu kerry missed the day in basic training in which it was taught "you don't give comfort & aid to the enemy".
Bush apparently missed the part about showing up and serving your country.
But I am also somewhat curious about these vets that are attacking Kerry, and yet remain silent about Bush's Vietnam record.
Why are they silent about Bush ? Could it be that the liars are politically motivated.
Don't you think that these great patriotic vets would at least say something about Bush getting into an over staffed NG unit and then not taking his flight physical, and then going AWOL ?
No, these politically motivated liars want to smear a decorated combat veteran, and remain silent towards the deserter who they want for president.
These liars and Bush will be exposed for what they are.
posted on August 5, 2004 01:16:11 PM newI can guarantee you this issue will come up during this years debates. I cant wait to see how bush explains his military record.
Yeah, heaven forbid they debate economic strategies, plans for Iraq, Al Qada. Lets all hope they debate a decades old war. <rolls eyes>
posted on August 5, 2004 03:32:49 PM new
The continued Demo issue of Pres Bush's militaty record is futher evidecence of the lack of your reading comprehension skills. Apparently the idea of Pres Bush receiving a honorable discharge fails to penetrate the gray matter you dems call a brain. Pres Bush's military record is a non issue that even Kerry has dropped.
Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
The White House declined.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
posted on August 5, 2004 05:27:35 PM new
LOL - At the dems having a fit that veterans who don't feel kerry is qualified to be Commander-In-Chief speaking out. They have every right to say how they saw kerry's actions. EVERY RIGHT!!!
And I notice that while the dems want everyone to read what McCain has said....they just forget to mention he also stated:
"I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
Selective reading I do believe.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 5, 2004 05:30 PM ]
posted on August 5, 2004 05:35:04 PM newYeah, heaven forbid they debate economic strategies, plans for Iraq, Al Qada.
Well...recently it was stated by a kerry rep. that he'd discuss his economic plan AFTER the election...not before.
And same on his plans for Iraq and AQ....his spokespeople have been quoted as saying the reason he's not informing us what his plans are is he doesn't want to basically let our enemies know what his plans are.
Kind of hard to compare policies when kerry has shown his enormous unwillingness to let American voters know what his plans are [what his policies will be]. But since he's just running on an anti-Bush platform guess he doesn't feel it necessary to state his own platform. We'll see how well that goes over on Nov. 2.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on August 5, 2004 05:53:18 PM new
And then there was the McCain who spoke out against kerry's actions during the VN war.
john kerry a traitor to the men who served in the VN war. No wonder they want the voters to be aware of his actions.
After he was released from the Hanoi Hilton in 1973, Sen. John McCain publicly complained that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fullbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [the North Vietnamese] had to use against us."
McCain wrote of this in the May 14, 1973 issue of U.S. News & World Report. According to him, "They used Senator Fullbright a great deal." During this time Kerry was working closely with the Fulbright committee, telling the American public that U.S. soldiers were committing war crimes in Vietnam as a matter of course. "All through this period," wrote McCain, " [they were] bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us."
Many P.O.W.s first heard Kerry's name from the lips of their Communist captors.
Later Kerry was forced to admit that he had not actually seen these "atrocities" committed, and that many of the so-called "vets" he brought with him to give public testimony before Congress and Senator Fulbright's committee had never actually served in the military.
Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to defect from the Soviet bloc, was interviewed by the National Review on February 26, 2004.
According to him:
"The exact sources of that assertion should be tracked down. Kerry also ought to be asked who, exactly, told him any such thing, and what it was, exactly, that they said they did in Vietnam. Statutes of limitation now protect these individuals from prosecution for any such admissions. Or did Senator Kerry merely hear allegations of that sort as hearsay bandied about by members of antiwar groups (much of which has since been discredited)? To me, this assertion sounds exactly like the disinformation line that the Soviets were sowing worldwide throughout the Vietnam era. KGB priority number one at that time was to damage American power, judgment, and credibility.
One of its favorite tools was the fabrication of such evidence as photographs and "news reports" about invented American war atrocities. These tales were purveyed in KGB-operated magazines that would then flack them to reputable news organizations. Often enough, they would be picked up. News organizations are notoriously sloppy about verifying their sources.
All in all, it was amazingly easy for Soviet-bloc spy organizations to fake many such reports and spread them around the free world.
"As a spy chief and a general in the former Soviet satellite of Romania, I produced the very same vitriol Kerry repeated to the U.S. Congress almost word for word and planted it in leftist movements throughout Europe. KGB chairman Yuri Andropov managed our anti-Vietnam War operation. He often bragged about having damaged the U.S. foreign-policy consensus, poisoned domestic debate in the U.S., and built a credibility gap between America and European public opinion through our disinformation operations. Vietnam was, he once told me, 'our most significant success.'"
posted on August 5, 2004 07:05:19 PM new
Well Linda, Kerry's disgust with the Vietnam war is well known by all and has no legs.
But just wait, if these lies about Kerry keep up, there will be a 527 that will start commercials about Bush's desertion during the war, and it will have legs.
posted on August 5, 2004 07:15:23 PM newApparently the idea of Pres Bush receiving a honorable discharge fails to penetrate the gray matter you dems call a brain. Pres Bush's military record is a non issue that even Kerry has dropped.
Yeah, Bush got an honorable discharge the same way he got into an over staffed NG unit with a waiting list he by-passed.
And oh, let's not forget he also just neglected to take his flight physical, and then just decided not to report for duty for a year.
