posted on August 25, 2004 10:16:05 AM new
Bush = liars, weasels, and military deserter.
Bush Campaign Lawyer Quits Over Ties to Ads Group
Aug. 25, 2004 — By Adam Entous
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - A top lawyer for President Bush's re-election campaign resigned on Wednesday after disclosing he provided legal advice to a group that accuses Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry of lying about his Vietnam War record.
Benjamin Ginsberg was the second person to quit the Bush campaign over ties to the group, called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The Bush's campaign insists it has no relationship with the group and has denied Kerry's charge the president's re-election team is using such "front groups."
"I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," Ginsberg wrote in a letter to Bush. A copy was released by the Bush campaign.
The fierce dispute over Kerry's record in Vietnam, where he was decorated for bravery, has dominated recent campaigning in the neck-and-neck race for the Nov. 2 presidential election. Both candidates are trying to portray themselves as the best man to lead the United States in its war against terrorism.
Ginsberg served as the Bush campaign's long-time chief outside counsel. He disclosed on Tuesday that he also gave legal advice to the Swift Boat group, which has attacked Kerry's record in television commercials and a book.
Federal election rules bar organizations that take unrestricted donations from coordinating their activities with campaigns or political parties. Bush campaign spokesman Scott Stanzel said: "There has been no coordination at any time."
MILITARY RECORD
But Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill countered: "The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive web of connections between George Bush and the group trying to smear John Kerry's military record. In fact, it only confirms the extent of those connections."
Stepping up his counter-attack, Kerry dispatched two fellow Vietnam veterans to Bush's secluded Texas ranch on Wednesday to press him to condemn the Swift Boat ads.
In his resignation letter, Ginsberg defended his actions, saying, "I am proud to have given legal advice to American military veterans and others who wish to add their views to the political debate."
"It was done so in a manner that is fully appropriate and legal," he wrote, adding that it was "quite similar" to ties between lawyers affiliated with the Kerry campaign and several left-leaning groups attacking Bush, including Moveon.org, the Media Fund and Americans Coming Together.
As a Navy lieutenant commanding a gunboat in Vietnam, Kerry was decorated five times for valor and sustaining combat wounds. He has shrapnel in his leg from one of those wounds.
After the Swift Boat ads, support for Kerry among the country's veterans declined, according to a CBS News poll.
The Massachusetts senator has called the Swift Boat ads inaccurate and has asked the Federal Election Commission to force them to be withdrawn.
Records show the Swift Boat group received some of its funding from long-time Bush supporters. Its new commercial also features one veteran, Ken Cordier, who was on a Bush campaign committee until last week, when he was forced to quit.
Bush said on Monday the Swift Boat ads should be stopped along with others run by independent groups. He said Kerry should be proud of his war service. But Bush stopped short of condemning the group or its ads.
The Bush campaign says left-leaning groups have spent $63.5 million on ads attacking Bush over the last 12 months and it has filed its own FEC complaint alleging abuse by Kerry.
posted on August 25, 2004 10:28:31 AM new
How funny to see the dems whining over something the kerry campaign also does.
taken from firstamendment.com - today
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Bush campaign lawyer helping anti-Kerry vets
An election lawyer for President Bush who also has been advising a veterans group running TV ads against Democrat John Kerry resigned today from Bush's campaign.
"I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election," Benjamin Ginsberg wrote in a resignation letter to Bush released by the campaign.
"I feel I cannot let that continue, so I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing."
Ginsberg's acknowledgment last evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.
The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination, and the campaign repeated that statement yesterday.
Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race at the same time.
Ginsberg's dual role has drawn attention because the Swift Boat Veterans group ran an ad accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam War record, an issue that has dominated the campaign since early August.
Earlier, Ginsberg said the swift-boat vets group "came to me and said, 'We have a point of view we want to get into the First Amendment debate right now. There's a new law. It's very complicated. We want to comply with the law, will you keep us in the bounds of the law?'"
Ginsberg told the Associated Press. "I said yes, absolutely, as I would do for anyone."
Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group, or vice versa, and doesn't advise the group on ad strategies.
"They have legal questions and when they have legal questions I answer them," Ginsberg said. He contended that by offering legal advice to both the Bush campaign and the swift-boat group, he has done nothing different than other election lawyers in Washington, including attorneys for Kerry and the Democratic National Committee who have also advised soft-money groups.
Representing campaigns, parties and outside groups simultaneously is legal and allowed under the law and by the FEC, he said.
"The truth is there is only a handful of lawyers who live and breathe this law. And so because the coordination rules do not include legal services among the prohibited coordinated activities, we provide legal service," Ginsberg said.
Larry Noble, head of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics campaign watchdog group and former FEC general counsel, said it was true that serving as a lawyer for both a campaign and a soft-money group isn't considered automatic evidence of coordination under commission rules, but added that it doesn't mean the FEC won't look at the situation.
Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there was nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once.
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so, could we stop all the whining about what the Bush camp is doing....especially since the kerry camp HAS been doing it for months?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on August 25, 2004 10:38:52 AM new
Thanks Linda for finding that article. I knew when I read Reamonds that there was something missing and I was going back to find it and it was in your thread.
Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race at the same time.
I wonder if Kerry's lawyer is going to quit.
This gives Ginsberg the opportunity to serve the Swift Boat Vets for truth to serve them and help them get their truths across. I would be nervious if I was in the Kerry Camp. I would be nervous if I was Kerry. He is the one who brought up his war record and nobody else. He is the only one to blame.
posted on August 25, 2004 10:40:53 AM new
moved from the other thread...
Ginsbergs resignation raises the question, why at this time did he resign? Obviously, he perceives a conflict which has been discovered. You don't know, Linda, in what capacity Sandler served the Moveon organization. He certainly wasn't advising a group involved in a smear campaign. Unlike Bush, Kerry nixed inappropriate ads immediately.
We can't find him guilty on this board but it certainly looks highly suspicious. Why would he resign if he was not transferring information between the two groups..ie, the Bush campaign and the Swift smear group.
posted on August 25, 2004 11:02:07 AM new
My pleasure, Libra.
This was also on MSNBC this morning:
The type of work Ginsberg has done has not been deemed improper by Kerry's campaign.
The law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry.
Ginsberg said that Joseph Sandler is a lawyer for both the Democratic National Committee and for the independent group MoveOn.org, which has run advertisements attacking Bush.
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Again...President Bush as challenged kerry to denounce all the 527s but kerry's not going to do that....oh no....but his supporters are going to continue stating how VERY, VERY wrong it is when the same thing is done by the Bush 527s.
posted on August 25, 2004 11:13:44 AM new
Helen, I think he resigned because ethically there is the appearance of conflict and his desire was not to perpetuate that unto the Bush Campaign?
Legally, it cannot be founded anything wrong was done. If he is a lawyer he has the right to practice his trade.
The Democrats HAVE benefitted/funded waaay more advertising thru these 527's than that of the republican campaign. - And the dollar$$ number is astounding against each other.
The pity of this particular ad is it has ripped and raped the issues away from the people who might stand to benefit from some real information on deciding who the better President might be for the next four years.
..
..
~~ Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues(forces)of life..Proverbs 4:23~~
posted on August 25, 2004 11:17:55 AM new
This is from moveon.org's website when kerry lawyer, who sent a complaint to the FEC about the Swift Boat 527 was saying it was just fine for the kerry 527s to do the same thing.
Maybe Sandler should have such ethical positions and resign himself.
MoveOn.org Voter Fund's lawyer, Joseph Sandler of Sandler, Reiff and Young observed, "The federal campaign laws have permitted precisely this use of money for advertising for the past twenty five years. The most recent court rulings continue to uphold the legality of what MoveOn.org Voter Fund is doing. The RNC statement is a complete misrepresentation of the law."
edited to add:
Marc Elian, general counsel, Kerry-Edwards '04, and Joseph Sandler, general counsel, DNC, were the signers of this 2 1/2-page attack on the Swift Boat Veterans.
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[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 25, 2004 11:22 AM ]
I agree, neroter. It's ethically wrong and in fact illegal if it is found that he transferred information between the Bush campaign and the Swift group.
Your last sentence is right on target!!!! "The pity of this particular ad is it has ripped and raped the issues away from the people who might stand to benefit from some real information on deciding who the better President might be for the next four years."
posted on August 25, 2004 11:36:24 AM new
Taken directly from john kerry's organization chart for his 2004 election campaign:
General Counsel Mark E. Elias
Partner at Perkins Coie. Also Counsel to the DSCC. Duke University School of Law, J.D., with honors, and Duke University, M.A. in Political Science, both 1993; Hamilton College, B.A. in Government and History, 1990.
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to match: The law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry.
posted on August 25, 2004 12:41:27 PM new
from NewsMax - today -
Thanks in part to tips from readers nationwide who are outraged about the blatant bias of the media establishment, we have found the following:
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From Democrats.org, a Web site of the Democratic National Committee, May 9, 2003:
"The Democratic Party is partnering with MoveOn.org, People for the American Way, Campaign for America's Future, and dozens of other groups representing millions of Americans to organize a massive public mobilization. On Wednesday, May 14, join us by calling and emailing your representatives in Congress to let them know that the majority of Americans oppose more irresponsible tax cuts that go overwhelmingly to the wealthiest sliver of Americans."
"In their own words, DNC coordination with MoveOn.org," noted a reader from Florence, S.C., one of several who sent this tip.
http://www.democrats.org/wvc/weekinreview/200305120002.html
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'Kicking Ass'
From the same Web site's unironically named "Kicking Ass: Daily Dispatches from the DNC," here's the ultimate in hypocrisy last Nov. 13 from one of Vermont's more extreme ideologues:
"Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT), ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, took a short break from the 30-hour Republican hypocrisy-a-thon to come and see the results of the DNC's petition drive. We collected more than 310,000 signatures and comments from Americans who stand with Senate Democrats in the fight to keep ultraconservative ideologues off the federal bench."
An accompanying photo has this caption: "DNC Chief Operating Officer Josh Wachs (left), Senator Leahy, and Zack Exley from Moveon.org pose with the more than 310,000 signatures."
http://www.democrats.org/blog/display/00010183.html
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In its push to obstruct judges who follow the U.S. Constitution, DNC admitted elsewhere on its site that same day, "The DNC is also conducting a major petition drive in partnership with MoveOn.org. More than 310,000 Americans have signed the petition to protect our courts — with more than 172,000 of those signatures coming in the past 36 hours."
http://www.democrats.org/news/200311140002.html
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And here's DNC's "Kicking Ass" item from Jan. 31:
Catch the Moveon ad during the Super Bowl Here's a message from Moveon.org:
This Sunday, during the Super Bowl half time show, join us in changing channels on CBS. At 8:10pm and 8:35pm EST, switch over to CNN to watch "Child's Pay" on a channel which doesn't censor its ads.
We'd like to keep a tally of the number of people who participate — you can sign up here.
Posted by DNC Research
http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00010377.html
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MoveOn's Web site admitted Aug. 9, "We're running a contest to help us choose the ads that will best convince undecided and swing voters to vote for John Kerry."
http://www.moveon.org/pac/news/best-ad.html
Kerry's Letter
The same site still posts a "letter to MoveOn members from John Kerry," dated June 17, 2003. "Make no mistake, we need to take back the White House in 2004 and that's why I'm running for President," Kerry writes.
http://www.moveon.org/pac/cands/kerry.html
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A posting on "the official Kerry-Edwards blog" last Dec. 11 includes this boast from one Fe Bongolan of Berkeley, Calif.:
"The East Bay for Kerry/MoveOn House party on December 7th combined the forces of two grass-roots organizations based in San Francisco East Bay Area. We had 200 guests eating, drinking, and watching the MoveOn Documentary 'Uncovered' featuring Joseph Wilson and Rand Beers from the Kerry campaign.
"When Teresa Heinz-Kerry arrived, she handed me a pin that read in the center: 'Asses of Evil' with 'Bush', 'Cheney', 'Rumsfeld' and 'Ashcroft' surrounding it. She met, greeted and talked to a jam-packed room of Kerry supporters and others who came for the MoveOn documentary. …
"Thanks to Teresa, we kept the party going on, and she helped us here at East Bay for Kerry, throw the Mother of All House Parties."
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/000871.html
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From the liberal Minneapolis Star Tribune: "Sam Kaplan, one of Kerry's biggest and earliest fundraisers in Minnesota, said he plans to continue raising money working with Americans [sic] Coming Together." (Hint to the Star Tribune: That pro-Kerry group calls itself America Coming Together.)
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The reader from St. Louis Park, Minn., who sent this tip pointed out, "This is a more direct, admitted coordination link than anything asserted in the New York Times."
Consider this July 26 posting on BushCountry.org:
Do identical donation pages tracking unique team numbers show relationship between John Kerry's campaign and MoveOn.org?
The Judge Napolitano on The big Story on Fox News just showed a Letter from Moveon asking for contributions to John Kerry with a link. That link ended in Team=437 at the end of the link.
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Now go to: http://www.Johnkerry.com and highlight the "Make a Contribution Link": /contribute3.johnkerry.co...l?team=138 It says team=138.
The Donation pages are identical in nature, form, and function in the sense they track the donations back to moveon.
Therefore they are tracking donations specific from Moveon thus applying a causal relationship between the two of them.
It is interesting that the PAC donation section on moveon no longer has a team number attached, but the letter shown on fox did.
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How did they get assigned a team number for contributions of Team Number 437 if they are not in a relationship?
Looking at the HTML source and at the link at the end of this sentence: Contribute to Senator Kerry's Presidential campaign here. It still shows a "team=349" URL like this:
Contribute to Senator Kerry's Presidential campaignhere
So, one has to ask the question: Who assigned Moveon.org the "Team=349" for use on their PAC page?
Still, the Kerry site is clearly using 'tracking numbers' to gauge the source and effectiveness of various 'campaign materials'
What do they gain by having a unique team number? Have them explain that one to the Federal Elections Commission
http://bushcountry.org/john_kerry/g_031404_withheld_moveon_kerry.htm
MoveOn's Link to Kerry and Cahill
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A reader from New Jersey sent this e-mail he received on July 22 that shows MoveOn's ties to Kerry and his campaign manager, Mary Beth Cahill.
From: Eli Pariser, MoveOn PAC To: Jim Shorts Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: Watch Kerry's big speech together.
The Kerry-Edwards campaign is holding house parties all over the country to celebrate Kerry's big speech next Thursday. Attend a house party in your area or host one yourself. Dear MoveOn member, A week from today, John Kerry will give the climactic speech at the Democratic National Convention, and the race to win the general election will be officially on. The speech will be one of the biggest political moments we'll have between now and the election, and it'll offer Kerry an opportunity to lay out his vision for the future of our country.
The Kerry-Edwards campaign wants to kick off this final phase of the campaign with a burst of grassroots energy, so all over the country folks are holding house parties to watch the speech. The parties will be linked together by a nation-wide conference call with John Edwards.
Hosting or attending a Kerry-Edwards house party is a great way to celebrate this fun and important event. To attend a party, just go to:
https://volunteer.johnkerry.com/event/search/?MilesFrom=25&Zip=&TimeSpan=WholeCampaign
To host a party of your own, go to:
http://www.johnkerry.com/convention
Hosting is easy ? all you need to do is sign up on the Kerry website and offer people a place to watch. We've copied an email from Mary Beth Cahill, Kerry's Campaign Manager, with more information about the parties. We'll be headed to house parties on Thursday night, and we hope you can make it too.
Sincerely, --Eli Pariser and the MoveOn PAC Team July 22nd, 2004
P.S. Here's the Kerry campaign's email:
From: Mary Beth Cahill, Kerry-Edwards 2004 Subject: A TV, some friends, and your next president Dear friend,
Next Thursday night, July 29, while John Kerry accepts the Democratic nomination, our supporters everywhere will be gathering to watch at convention parties in thousands of homes, restaurants, and public meeting halls across the country. This is the first time a presidential campaign has ever kicked off the general election with so much energy and grassroots support.
You can set up your own convention party in just minutes here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/convention
Or find one to attend in your town here:
https://volunteer.johnkerry.com/event/search/?MilesFrom=25&Zip=&TimeSpan=WholeCampaign
For millions of Americans, next Thursday night is the beginning of the presidential election. It's an opportunity to bring hundreds of thousands of new people into our campaign. When John Kerry accepts his party's nomination, it will be a special moment -- his one chance to lay out his vision for the country, uninterrupted, and with the undivided attention of the nation.
At thousands of events in 50 states, Washington, D.C., and four territories, our supporters are going to convert this night into an organizing opportunity. Last week we set a goal to sign up 100,000 new volunteers in one night at our convention parties. Now we're poised to blow past that goal.
Holding a convention party is easy. All you need is a television and a few friends. Sign up as a party host so that we can count your event in our total:
http://www.johnkerry.com/convention
Sincerely,
[b]Mary Beth Cahill Campaign Manager
PAID FOR BY MOVEON PAC www.moveonpac.org[/b] Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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And Here's George Soros
Is Bush-bashing billionaire George Soros behind polls and "experts" slanted in favor of Kerry? Follow the money trail and decide for yourself.
In an Aug. 21 article headlined "Youth vote could carry Kerry into White House," the Bakersfield Californian newspaper quoted William Galston, director of Center for Information and Research at the University of Maryland, as saying: "It is a mirror-image reversal of the run-up to the Iraq war when the young were supportive. They are now disillusioned and confused with a situation where there is continuing carnage and no end in sight."
Galston, it turns out, is a "founding principal" of something that calls itself Democracy Collaborative.
http://cbvps.tempdomainname.com/vhosts/democracycollaborative.org/htdocs/about/leadership.html
And who funds Democracy Collaborative? George Soros.
http://www.osi-az.org/network.shtml
Like-Minded Employers
As NewsMax.com reported Sunday, Kerry refuses to fire Zach Exley, a campaign staffer who was a director for MoveOn.org.
And, of course, Jim Jordan, formerly Kerry's campaign manager, continues his work at the pro-Kerry Media Fund.
-----
Although the Times and its countless imitators have for days made Kerry's latest attacks on Bush and Swift Boats Veterans for Truth their lead story, note that they didn't offer similar publicity when Bush's campaign and the Republican National Committee on March 31 accused Kerry's campaign of illegal coordination with anti-Bush groups.
"Senator Kerry, who supported the Bipartisan Campaign Finance Reform Act, is now the beneficiary of the single largest conspiracy to violate campaign-finance laws in history," RNC Chief Counsel Jill Holtzman Vogel said at the time.
Kerry's adviser Michael Meehan claimed at the time: "This frivolous complaint is not worth the paper it is written on. John Kerry and his campaign have nothing to do with these ads or the groups that run them."
But as NewsMax has now proven, DNC's own Web site and Kerry himself disprove that assertion. The chief question that remains is how the Times and the rest of the media establishment can continue to ignore the Democrat deceit.
Instead of doing research into Kerry's questionable ties, the Times today was content again to parrot his latest attack ad as one of the lead stories on its Web site: "Kerry TV Ad Pins Veterans' Attack Firmly on Bush."
Yet the Times did not run a lead headline when Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for Bush-Cheney '04, neatly summed up the Democrats' desperate tactics on Friday:
"Real coordination is what John Kerry's campaign has been engaged in with the Media Fund, America Coming Together, and MoveOn.org. The revolving door of personnel, coordinated strategies and overlapping fundraising between the Democrat 527s and the Kerry campaign is a flagrant disregard of the spirit and letter of the campaign finance reform law."
posted on August 25, 2004 01:36:56 PM new
Wrong again helen. It's kerry's 'boat' that's being sunk by the Swift Boat Vets...and their ads....that's why kerry's having such a hissy fit over ONE 527.
What we're seeing is this President who has denounced ALL 527s...and who has asked kerry to do the same. kerry hasn't though. We're also seeing that while kerry's whole campaign is tied DIRECTLY to his 527 group supporters....he's not asking for those in his party to separate themselves into either staying with his campaign OR the 527's, like he says the republicans should do.
It shows which party wants there to be no doubt about their scruples...while the kerry side continues to go about doing the exact same thing they have accused the Bush Administration of doing.
posted on August 25, 2004 02:25:30 PM new
And a whole lotta other people. Read the news, listen to the news, read apaper, read a magazine, get online news......sez me and a whole LOTTA others
posted on August 25, 2004 03:36:25 PM new
It sure is, bear.
Heck some here don't seem to take even kerry's own words, his backing off of some of what he claimed were lies stated by the Swift Boat Vets. kerry's backtracked on 2-3 so far. Wonder how many more he'll admit to before this is all over?
I still think more are going to be even interested in the SBVTs book - Unfit for Command - when they find out what he did upon returning to the states...in 1971. Many voters have only heard about VN, they were either babies or not born during that time. So it's good they get to hear another version of VN from those who were there.
