posted on August 1, 2005 10:21:02 PM new'Good news' deaths or 'bad news'?
Conservative supporters of the war, such as bloggers found at blogsforbush.com, argue the military is taking the correct approach, that the "liberal media" only want to report the "bad news" of dead U.S. soldiers, but ignore the "good news" about killed Iraqi insurgents.
What those arguments overlook is how difficult it is to actually find out how many Iraqis have been killed, be they fighters or civilians.
Officials in Washington don't compile data on Iraqis killed, but field commanders on the ground in Iraq will from time to time give reporters a number referring to enemy fighters killed in a specific battle.
The coalition forces also don't tally Iraqi deaths, nor did the U.S.-backed administration in the months following the collapse of Saddam's regime.
In the fall of 2004, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw issued a written statement in which he said, "In many cases it would be impossible to make a reliably accurate assessment either of the civilian casualties resulting from any particular attacks or of the overall civilian casualties of a conflict. This is particularly true in the conditions that exist in Iraq."
Since taking over the administration of their own country in late June 2004, the Iraqis have stepped up their efforts to keep track. In January 2005, the Iraqi health ministry released data from the previous six months of hospital records.
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Do you not think that it is a good idea for the Iraqis to keep track of their own dead? They hadn't been doing it and now they have the ability to keep better records. I do not see any evil in that because I want the best for them all. If you truly support them, don't you think they should have that right? Or under so-called Democracy do you think the rights of the Iraqis should be quite different than the rights of the Americans? Are we discussing two different forms of Democracy?
Do you not think it's good news to show the soldiers adjusting when they return from Iraq? Some even want to return there with their injuries and were very positive about wanting to help the Iraqi people some more and that included rebuilding the country or do you see that as a bad thing?
I don't see evil in the stories of the American troops helping the Iraqi people while they are there and view them as the positive stories they are. Do you think they are evil to help them because you view all of them as an enemy?
When they showed the determination of the Iraqi people and their good spirits I saw no evil in it at all, I viewed it as positive. We should all ask ourselves if we would have the strength to endure what they have.
Edited to add that I just remembered that last week they had a story on the Iraqis returning to their homes in Fallujah and rebuilding them and how happy they were to be back home. That was also positive.
linda says, "It's all about death counts.... " (referring to news coverage of events in Iraq)
Yes, linda, even to you that 'should' be a very important consideration. And, in light of those death counts and the awful situation in Iraq, your frantic and misguided search for "good news" is not only inappropriate but ignorant.. You might forage around all the demolished infrastructure and dead bodies of U.S. soldiers, and Iraqi citizens in this war zone, where a ground for Al Qaeda has been established by George Bush and find a tiny ray of sunshine but so dam what?
How long will you dance around like a dumb lackey praising a president who has demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt that he is exceedingly incompetent?
posted on August 2, 2005 01:53:30 PM newand the lefties here don't have the common sense to check out our own Armed Forces websites to hear from our soldiers themselves the accomplishments they're making
I guess you don't believe the stories about the soldiers over there that are speaking out against the war and are also speaking of all the death, destruction, lack of equipment, lack of water and power, the lack of training of the Iraqi troops. You continue to ignore these stories just as much as you complain about others ignoring the "good stories".
Keep believing Iraq is Disneyland if you want to because no matter what is posted you will continue to believe what you want. Keep living in Plesantville.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
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President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 2, 2005 02:48:09 PM new
I didn't figure you'd be able to do what I asked.....none of you liberals can....
Put your c&p where your mouth is kiara.....let's see you post a few links on good news coming from Iraq....from either the NYT, WashingtonPost, or your own CBC. ANY left leaning paper.....
I don't see them informing the public about ANY good news from Iraq. So....let's see your proof to back up your claims. I'd be THRILLED to see ANY left leaning news media giving ANY good news on Iraq.
Yep....you couldn't do it. figures....because it's just as I said....the liberal news media don't WANT to print any good news from Iraq. Doesn't go along with their anti-war agenda.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 2, 2005 02:50 PM ]
posted on August 2, 2005 04:46:34 PM newI didn't figure you'd be able to do what I asked.....none of you liberals can....
Lindak, what exactly do you consider good news?
I said there were many good news stories about the American troops helping the Iraqi people but you don't see it as good news. Why? because you loathe them and consider them enemies? Is it good news for you to see more of the innocent shot on sight instead?
It was good news that some of the children get to school safely and that the schools get checked for bombs and that they have books and supplies but you don't think it's good news. Why? Because it allows them to be educated and then you fear they'll all be smarter than you? (Guess what, they already are). But according to your posts, you consider them the enemy.
Showing support for the troops by featuring stories of recovering soldiers who want to get on with their lives and offer encouragement to others is not good news? It's not good news to you that some want to return to Iraq to help with the reconstruction?
Everyone knows America considers themselves a world power but sent their men and women out to war without adequate protection and they had a few limbs blown off. But now they survived so are you afraid they may bleed the health system and your tax dollar? Do you think it would have been better if they had returned in a coffin? Do you still think the sight of injured soldiers should be kept from the eyes of the uninformed public?
It's not good news to see the Iraqis rebuilding their homes that were destroyed? Are you disappointed that they could do that from rubble? Are you fearful of the willpower they show as it surpasses yours?
posted on August 2, 2005 05:21:40 PM newPut your c&p where your mouth is kiara.....let's see you post a few links on good news coming from Iraq....from either the NYT, WashingtonPost, or your own CBC. ANY left leaning paper.....
Linda, why don't you show us some of the reality posts of what is going on in Iraq from all your conservatives based stories. Let's see if any of your sources have stories other than "all your goody goody news"
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on August 2, 2005 11:46:00 PM new
U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Surpasses 1,800
Updated 1:55 AM ET August 3, 2005
By SAMEER N. YACOUB
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Seven U.S. Marines were killed in two separate attacks west of Baghdad, where American forces are trying to seal a major border infiltration route for foreign fighters, the military said Tuesday. The deaths pushed the U.S. military death toll in Iraq past 1,800.
One of the Marines died Monday in a suicide car bombing in Hit, 85 miles northwest of Baghdad. The other six were killed Monday in Haditha, 50 miles from Hit _ all of them attached to the same suburban Cleveland unit.
"Every single one of them is a hero," said Lt. Col. Kevin Rush of the Headquarters and Service Co. 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines based in Brook Park, Ohio.
At least 25 American service members have been killed in Iraq in the past 10 days _ all but two in combat. The Iraqi Defense Ministry said that since the beginning of April, more than 2,700 Iraqis _ about half of them civilians _ had been killed in insurgency-related incidents.
On Wednesday, an American freelance journalist was found dead in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, the U.S. Embassy said.
Police said Steven Vincent had been shot multiple times after he and his Iraqi translator were abducted at gunpoint hours earlier.
Fighting has intensified in recent weeks in Haditha, Hit and other dusty towns along the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad as American forces step up efforts to seal off the approaches to the Syrian border and prevent foreign fighters from entering the country.
The Marines launched a series of operations in the region in May and June in hopes of pacifying the area so that Iraqi military and civilian forces could assume effective control. But the insurgents have proven resilient.
posted on August 3, 2005 05:34:26 AM new
You hve to learn to take the good news with the bad. Pushing bad news under the carpet doesn't do anything to solve the problem. In order to solve the problems (the bad news) they need to be brought out into the open and examined. It is only then that you can find solutions. It's great that there are good things happening over there, but if you only look at the good and push the bad aside what have you really accomplished? Not a damned thing.
posted on August 3, 2005 06:46:05 AM new
Linda says,"Put your c&p where your mouth is kiara.....let's see you post a few links on good news coming from Iraq....from either the NYT, WashingtonPost, or your own CBC. ANY left leaning paper....."
Maybe you are more devious that I suspected. Now, you want those who are telling you that there is NO good news to look for "good news" in order to demonstrate to you that media coverage is fair. What a crock! There is no good news coming from Iraq to report.
You are wrong to call the New York Times and the Washington Post liberal papers. They are not. Maybe you will believe your Fox news pal Bill O’Riley who said, “One major casualty in the war on terror is the liberal press in the USA. Don’t believe the right-wing ideologues when they tell you the left still controls the media agenda. It does not any longer. It’s a fact.”
As I have pointed out to you so many times, The Washington Post aided and abetted the anointment of George Bush.
posted on August 3, 2005 07:12:20 AM new
I believe Lindak's perception of good news are isolated spots of reconstruction for 'show and tell' while the main country continues to be blasted to bits as more innocent civilians and troops are killed daily.
She's already admitted that she wants the war on terrorism fought there and not in her back yard so she doesn't give a crap about hearing any good things happening to the people of Iraq.
posted on August 3, 2005 08:13:21 AM new
""In war there are no "innocents" that is something people fail to realize or understand.""
Children blown apart by bombs and shot to death in battles aren't "innocents"....talk about your head up your butt.
But you're correct about "announcing" troop withdrawal right before the elections.
It's good strategy for pulling the wool over American's eyes once again. I'm sure 8-10 soldiers will come home with great fanfare and news coverage, then right after the elections ...nothing.
""Who is pushing the bad news under the rug Cheryl? The deaths and massacres are reported every day!""
Oh Lord! Do actually think what's REALLY happening over there is published ?!?! Yes, sometimes if you dig you can come up with the casualties. But all the other crap that's happening , like where the billions of dollars are disappearing to, is seriously underreported.
If Bush plans to "pull out" of Iraq why are millions being spent on bulding American bases ???
There was no exit strategy planned because the Bushies didn't plan to exit!
??
posted on August 3, 2005 08:24:37 AM newYes, sometimes if you dig you can come up with the casualties.
Sometimes, if you dig?????
What a joker you are! That is reported in the newspapers and on every newscast - daily! It is most often the lead story. So what are you talking about - if you dig? Reporters are embedded with the troops for God Sakes! Are they in on the conspiracy too?
And also, when were you privvy to the pentagon accounting figures so you just know how much it costs to fund a war or where the money is being allocated to?
Your accusations fly blind.
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spelling
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Aug 3, 2005 08:28 AM ]
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Aug 3, 2005 08:28 AM ]
posted on August 3, 2005 08:29:13 AM new
14 more Marines were just killed neared the Syria border. America is no longer a world power and couldn't even take on a small country like Iraq. They are losing more and more of their soldiers and have a serious problem recruiting any others. The Bush government is so ashamed of the losses that they hide the returning coffins from view and they seldom mention the injured soldiers. When there is too much media attention Bush trots to a hospital with the cameras and does a phony speech with a smirk on his face. Sad!
posted on August 3, 2005 08:35:30 AM new
"""And also, when were you privvy to the pentagon accounting figures so you just know how much it costs to fund a war or where the money is being allocated to? ""
First, we should ALL be privy to pentagon accounting figures.
Second, dodo, there has been coverage, to an extent, about the scams and disappearing billions we've sent over there. There ARE stories of how money is wasted...my god they reported that money is handed out in paper bags with NO accounting of who got it or how much!
If you dig, it ain't on the front page, you'll find the corruption with Halliburton and other companies that SHOULD be on the front page of every newspaper in the country ...where is it...you have to dig.
posted on August 3, 2005 08:41:37 AM new14 more Marines were just killed neared the Syria border.
kiara, you announce that like its something you are proud to present.
Tell us, did you have dig hard for that news?
America is no longer a world power
Says who? You? I think when they are done with Iraq they should go up to Canada and kick your pac man mouth in and then we will know if they are still a world power or not.
Yeah, Real'Pro-America' you are! Linda is right about you!! Youre nothing but a sniveling snert who doesnt give 2 sh*ts about the American troops! Why dont you go roll your pac man head around ebay and find some auctions you need to report or something else to elevate your self-esteem instead of munching on soldiers confidence and U.S. Military affairs?
posted on August 3, 2005 08:47:11 AM new First, we should ALL be privy to pentagon accounting figures
Well apparently you certainly have examined them enough. How many days of study did it take you to reach this conclusion? I'm sure it was probably a one page report.
Second, dodo, there has been coverage, to an extent..
posted on August 3, 2005 09:13:09 AM newTell us, did you have dig hard for that news?
No. It's headline news and those of us who truly support the troops and care about them pay attention to the latest news.
I think when they are done with Iraq they should go up to Canada and kick your pac man mouth in and then will know if they are still a world power or not.
I see that you still have a problem contributing anything to a conversation and allow your anger to take full control once again. Have you ever thought of seeking help through an anger management program? Perhaps you may have a better chance of discussing things here in a more calm and rational manner.
It's amusing that you perceive my words as such a threat that in your mind it would take the American military to just kick me in the mouth to prove that they are a world power.
posted on August 3, 2005 09:15:12 AM new
Please tell me about all of your war experiences mingotree? I would be fascinated to hear about it. I will repeat my statement which many people have said in the present and past "There are no innocents in war."
I have read many many books on war, never once do they claim to protect the innocents.
posted on August 3, 2005 09:40:31 AM new
Ron - My point was to show that the 'bad news' on Iraq is ALL we hear about from the leftist media. We rarely hear any of the accomplishments that are and have taken place over there.
See...the radicals here complain all the time that nothing good is being done over there....so as time has passed I've pointed out to them that's just NOT true. Good things ARE being accomplished......just not reported to the American public so they get a clearer picture and don't 'see' only the deaths - only the costs of any war.
It drives them WILD. They can't handle the facts....they refuse to accept them. Their glass isn't half empty/half full....their glasses are TOTALLY empty....devoid of anything positive.
And on your own comment on our withdrawal plans/troop reductions.....they have been set for once the Iraqi troops can do it themselves. I don't buy the thought that it's because of our elections next Nov., but rather that by that time they should be better prepared to defend themselves...more will have been trained. Plus the fact that they're drawing up their own Constitution now....deadline hopefully this month....and THEY will be voting on it in December or January. That's what I've been reading is the projected date to begin downsizing.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 3, 2005 09:50 AM ]
posted on August 3, 2005 09:43:35 AM new
Matter of fact, come to think of it, I've read in the last couple of weeks, that our troop size has already begun decreasing our forces....by either 20,000 or 25,000. Less were needed after they voted the first time....and statements were made that the Iraqi troops will be able to handle the next election.....part of why in my 'good news' link it was pointed out how they are doing so well at protecting and keeping the peace at those soccor games.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 3, 2005 09:45:26 AM new
it's amusing that you perceive my words as such a threat that in your mind it would take the American military to just kick me in the mouth to prove that they are a world power.
LOL!!! You playing psychiatrist again huh, kiara? Maybe one day you will realize how played out your game is already.
Yes, my opinion really is 'bout as amusing as your tinnee tiny warped ill-informed and ill-conceived opinion whether America is a super power or not! The world according to kiara...now thats a laugh!!
...munch munch munch... pac pac pac - lemme roll out on this internet more so I can broadcast more deaths because that proves I am right!! I win! yippie!!! Roll on mouth!...pac..pac...munch...munch...munch....
posted on August 3, 2005 09:55:16 AM new
You can't expect anything more, dbl, from a person like her who doesn't even understand/can't comprehend what the word 'good' means.
You're just asking WAY too much from her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 3, 2005 10:01:53 AM new
Same thing on every thread, the bitter old mama dog and her angry little lap dog get frustrated when they try to deal with an intelligent opinion from the rest of us and since they are unable to handle any opposing view, they pee up the board instead. Go ahead and lick each other clean for the rest of your day, how embarrassing for both of you.
posted on August 3, 2005 10:41:11 AM new
No, I really can't, dbl. They're all so angry and just can't handle [as we can seen here] ANY thing positive or good. It sends them into RAGES. Talk about tolerance. hahaha
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
Good things ARE being accomplished......just not reported to the American public so they get a clearer picture and don't 'see' only the deaths - only the costs of any war.
They can't handle the facts....they refuse to accept them. Their glass isn't half empty/half full....their glasses are TOTALLY empty....devoid of anything positive.