pareau
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posted on July 10, 2001 10:28:24 PM new
BittyBug said:
40% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is the parent
45% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is known to the child
15% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is a stranger to the child
95% of the cases involving girls, the abuser is a male
80% of the cases involving boys, the offender is a male
Assuming this is true, 20% of the people abusing boys are female. If 40% of these abuse cases involve parents as the abusers, wouldn't this mean that 8% of abused boys are being molested by Mom?
Or are all those skipped Stat classes showing?
- Pareau
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 06:44:47 AM new
I never missed a Statistics class so...
Yes Pareau, assuming this data is correct and assuming that the ratio of parental abuse holds the same over the gender differences Moms would account for 8% of the molestation of male children.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 07:49:33 AM new
45% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is known to the child
The problem with these statistics is that they lump so many things together that one can't make any sense of them.
Seriously, if the activity we discuss is perpetrated by people not known to the child 55% of the time, then we should prepare a defense against strangers. Against everyone.
And to some extent we do need a broad defense.
However, the vast majority of sexual molestation is done by adults known perfectly well by the child. Heterosexual molestation is done by family members the majority of the time. Homosexual molestation is done by men who have gained not only the boy's trust but also the trust of the parents.
So "sexual abuse" seems very broad, nebulous. After all, if 90% is not reported to the police, then we don't have much record of it. Further, it's false to claim that all of this stuff is equally damaging to the child.
There's no doubt that violent, involuntary penetration of the child can be damaging to the child and create long lasting damage. Luckily, this is extrordinarily rare.
The more common serious damage to the child occurs when the adult succeeds in inducing the child to orgasm. The child has become a participant, the memory is vivid and lifelong. This doesn't happen with a stranger.
A six year girl old picked up by the crotch by her 15 year old brother (who did do deliberately) may have been "sexually abused", but it's just not to the same degree. This difference is important, because we need to go to great length to defend children from damage. While we need some defense from "inappropriate brother pickups", it's just not the same, because the level of damage to the child is not the same. The child has not participated, and likely has no lasting memory of the event.
That is why it is valuable to not bundle all such things together.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:06:11 AM new
Moms would account for 8% of the molestation of male children.
That would seem to demonstrate some weakness in the process.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:46:23 AM new
Actually roofguy...
A 10% of the total population for a sample is a very large sample. The statistics may be somewhat skewed simply because it is not a random sample...merely the reported cases, therefore not representing the population as a whole, However, if you study further, the reporting of adults who suffered sexual abuse as children also supports these figures.
While the 8% figure has a couple assumptions it is not a difficult figure to accept if one deals with this type of occurance.
Sexual abuse of a child is never a victonless crime. The victom is the child and the degree of lastinf effects has meny variables (as stated in the above links).
The data was collected and quantatated as a whole, further breaking it down into smaller chunks. This is all supported by more than one body of research. It is repeatable, valid and credible. Research simply does not support your premise. It is of a much broader spectrum than you seem to have.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:52:44 AM new
Also, you have failed to read the statistics acurately.
[i]40% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is the parent
[i]45% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is known to the child
15% of child sexual abuse cases the abuser is a stranger to the child
In 40% of the cases, the abuser is a parent...children usually know their parent. This makes the abuser known in 85% of the time (40% parent, 45% other but still known to the child) resulting in a 15% stranger rate.
The data is clear, but one must be able to interpret it to understand it.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:53:19 AM new
BittyBug, do you actually believe that the boy's mother accounts for 8% of male child molestation?
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 08:59:28 AM new
I never missed a stats class, but those spelling ones are another story all together. 
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:02:38 AM new
Sexual abuse of a child is never a victonless crime.
Is this a reaction to something I posted?
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:03:41 AM new
Yes roofguy, I do believe that is a very good probability.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:06:35 AM new
Why not believe it? Instinct tells you that moms don't kill their children either, but some do.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:08:17 AM new
No, well kind of. I don't care if the victom "enjoyed" the experience on some level. It does not make the victom less of a victom.
Yes, an abused child is at an increased risk of growing up into a child abuser. They are also at an increased risk of becoming a substance abuser, depressed, and a multitude of other ailments. To the best of my knowledge that goes for any abused child.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:11:20 AM new
I would love to continue this discussion, but will have to pause for right now. Got the youngest daughter in labor needing to get to the hospital, but waiting for me to come the 50 miles to get her eldest. Got the eldest daughter heading to the OR for a hip relacement and her daughter here.
Will look forward to further debate later. Take care, have a good day.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:27:19 AM new
Why not believe it?
(that the boy's mother accounts for 8% of male child molestation)
I've followed child molestation for a long time.
I've never read a single story in a newspaper of a mother being arrested for molesting her son. Well, maybe one, from a long time back, a mother who established a sexual relationship with her adolescent son. It's just incredibly rare.
During that time I have read many stories of mothers killing their kids.
Is your recollection different?
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jamesoblivion
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:33:26 AM new
I don't think newspaper articles about who gets arrested really accounts for who molests. The majority of people who molest simply get away with it scott free.
To be honest, it's rare that I see a father getting arrested for molesting. In most of the newspaper articles I've read it's a teacher, school janitor, neighbor. So if the statistic is true that fully 45% of molested children are victims of their own parents, that fact isn't reflected in arrests either.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:37:18 AM new
Statistics:
50% or so of people are male
5% or so of people are pregnant
therefore 2.5% of males are pregnant
This is the kind of assumption made to yield the "mothers are molesters" conclusion.
Mothers are not molesters. WOMEN are not molesters, with what turns out to be individual, hard to generalize rare exceptions. At the core of the difference is the fact that women seldom become fixated on some particular sexual style in the way that many/most otherwise normal men do.
There is one generalization regarding women accused of criminal child molestation: the woman acted at the request of a man.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:42:37 AM new
Of course MOTHERS aren't molesters. Neither are FATHERS. But there is a slice within all groups who go against every normal instinct and societal norm. Do I believe 8% of child molestation among boys is commited by their mothers? No, but that's because I don't believe statistics posted without valid citation (and even then I don't just buy it). But is 8% possible? I believe it is.
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sulyn1950
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posted on July 11, 2001 09:55:33 AM new
"Child molesters thrive due to ignorance and wishful thinking."
This was in your opening statement.
Then you said:
"Mothers are not molesters. WOMEN are not molesters, with what turns out to be individual, hard to generalize rare exceptions. At the core of the difference is the fact that women seldom become fixated on some particular sexual style in the way that many/most otherwise normal men do."
Could you be making the same mistake????
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jtland
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posted on July 11, 2001 10:46:39 AM new
I would guess women are seldom caught because of our societal expectations. Women are expected to be nurturing and affectionate to children. Women dress and bathe children without anyone thinking anything about it. When that crosses the line into abuse, no one wants to believe it. Also, physical signs will probably be lacking.
As was pointed out earlier on this thread, a lot of people see initiation of a boy by an older woman as a 'rite of passage'. I'm sure it's not reported as frequently as a man with a girl.
Lisa
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spazmodeus
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posted on July 11, 2001 10:50:01 AM new
a mother who established a sexual relationship with her adolescent son. It's just incredibly rare.
You don't watch much Jerry Springer, do you?
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 11:45:36 AM new
I don't care if the victom "enjoyed" the experience on some level. It does not make the victom less of a victom.
BittyBug, the most common form of blindness to the actual mechanisms of child molestation I've encountered is the refusal to accept that one's child might enjoy the experience. No "" on that enjoy.
If there's one clear point I'd like to make with all of this, here it is.
The most damaging form of child molesting involves an orgasm by an adolescent child induced by an adult. The child enjoys the event totally, but at that moment the child has acquired an immense psychological problem.
The boy with this experience will find it interfering with his subsequent relationships with women, and will find it making his relationship with his future wife far more difficult, if he can succeed at all.
Through somewhat different mechansims, the girl will also find herself struggling to overcome the experience in her relationships with men, and often falling short.
These children are victims. In fact, when we discuss "victims of child molestation", this type of experience covers the vast majority of seriously damaged children. They fall short of fail completely in marriage and in life with high frequency.
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 11:55:58 AM new
I don't think newspaper articles about who gets arrested really accounts for who molests. The majority of people who molest simply get away with it scott free.
This might be true.
However, even if it is true, it does not imply that one can say much concrete about those who are getting away with it.
Discussing cases beyond convictions (or at least arrests) has two flaws:
1. We're not sure what the speaker is calling "child molestation".
2. We're logically unconvinced by the evidence.
Newly divorced mothers report that their estranged husband molested the kids with amazing frequency. Investigation by the police ususlly shows that the mother is lying. Would one integrate such reports into one's statistics or not? If not, what kind of criteria is used to filter reports?
Arrest and conviction records might not tell the whole story, but we're at least confident we're observing reality.
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skylarraye
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posted on July 11, 2001 12:47:31 PM new
Soooo, your expertise exists soley on what you've read in the paper. Simply riveting.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 01:12:46 PM new
roofguy...have you taken the time to read the info that Sky and I posted links to at all?
One site has the medical definition of child molestation. The legal definitions are defined by each state.
Actually a young male being initiated to sex by an elder person is not so rare. Nor is it rare that it is a parent that initiates them. Women, mothers included, do moleste children. To believe otherwise is simply turning a blind eye to reality, which as you pointed out makes it ever so much easier for those inclined to commit the crime.
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skylarraye
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posted on July 11, 2001 01:38:38 PM new
The title for this thread should have been: "Child Molestation: My opinion."
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:28:07 PM new
have you taken the time to read the info that Sky and I posted links to at all?
If you found something which demonstrates my concerns to be unfounded, go ahead and post it.
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:34:25 PM new
Are you saying that you have not bothered reading any of it then?
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:38:10 PM new
About 60% of the male survivors sampled report at least one of their perpetrators to be female.
Source: Mendel, 1993.
http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm
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BittyBug
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:40:13 PM new
In regard to sexual victimization, the NIS survey concluded:
[i]Girls are sexually abused three times more often than boys;
Boys have greater risk of emotional neglect & serious injury than girls.
http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm
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roofguy
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posted on July 11, 2001 02:41:03 PM new
One site has the medical definition of child molestation.
You mean the one you referred to as the "medical definition of pedophilia"?
If you think that reference should in any way mitigate my expressed concerns, then by all means explain.
I cited a case of a homosexual child molester who was convicted of molesting 29 boys over 75 incidents. Why is it a relevant reaction to discuss the "medical definition of pedophilia"?
Anyone who wants to be really convinced that this is irrelevant should indeed visit the link. What we see here part of the problem, not the solution.
http://ping4.ping.be/chaosium/psypedo.htm
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