posted on July 31, 2001 05:26:28 AM
Well, I learn so much on this internet!
Today, I learn from posters as far away as California and Canada that there is probably no racism in Mississippi! Racism?... What an absurd concept!
It's no big deal to be black in Missississippi!!! How did this information elude me?
Even the word "manager" has been redefined for me. It goes to show that you can't always depend on Webster or prevailing definitions in the North to understand word meanings in the South. Webster should consider this.
Hepburn, I notice this morning that you have made a new friend and email connection!
Bless my soul! What turns a thread can take.
posted on July 31, 2001 05:56:40 AM
Now, I would like to learn what the word, "attitude" means in the south...as it relates to "manager". Does that mean a "manager" who balks when he learns that his job definition includes being a bag boy?
posted on July 31, 2001 08:03:51 AMHJW: no one said there is no racism in the south. Merely that it is ridiculous to make everything a racial matter. Tell us--how is it "racism" to expect a manager to follow store policy?
posted on July 31, 2001 08:29:45 AM
Im sorry, James. I figured it would have come out long before now, and am surprised it hasnt. Truthfully, I am happy it hasnt and like it the way it is now. But I didnt mean to whet any curiosity that will make one not sleep. I couldnt very well show up on Teri's doorstep without her knowing Im safe to have in her home, now could I? lol.
posted on July 31, 2001 08:31:25 AMHJW: BTW--regarding your angst that a manager should have to soil his hands doing things that are "beneath" him....
Perhaps many have no problem with that because we realize that it is a manager's responsibility to see that things are running smoothly. And that sometimes means pitching in physically.
I am a librarian. Actually, I am the head of my department. I have a Master's Degree. But guess what? When there is a page shortage, I straighten shelves & put away books. Do I like that? Not really. Do I find it demeaning? No. It is part of making sure that my department is running smoothly & able to provide the services needed by our users.
Of course, I am white...in your world view it would seem that it would be "racist" to expect a black librarian to do the same.
posted on July 31, 2001 08:38:04 AM
Managing=manage what you are doing. How can a manager manage without knowing what they are managing? To take out the groceries and stock shelves is maintaining their job and MANAGING. Color has nothing to do with it.
I explained this morning that I learned from you that racism had nothing to do with the case of the store manager in Mississippi. I accept your learned advice as a Canadian librarian with a Masters Degree.
posted on July 31, 2001 09:51:02 AM
Helen, Bunnicula is a Californian, not a Canadian.
Today, I learn from posters as far away as California and Canada that there is probably no racism in Mississippi!
Well, you didn't read that in THIS thread. Show me where anyone in this thread said there was no racism in Mississippi. What WAS said is that there are not enough facts available about this manager's firing for you to be ascribing it to racism. None. When you cry "racism" on any thread that has even the remotest link to a person of color, you diminish and demean the true instances of racism that do occur. Nobody in this thread has said that Mississippi is free from racism. But you don't know enough about the facts with regard to this employee to say it's about racism. It's that simple.
posted on July 31, 2001 10:20:29 AM
Just to stir things up, I'll say this.
It's worth questioning whether behavior of one person is judged differently than the same behavior would be in another person. Such as, forceful women in business are seen as "agressive" (a bad thing), while the same behavior in a male in business might be seen as "assertive" (a good thing). So, yes, when we hear Terri's story, we stop and wonder if the behavior of the black manager would be seen as evidence of "professionalism" in a white manager.
Would it be? Hard to say. We don't know what duties this corporation places on its manager employees. True, I'd always learned that if a manager is doing employees' work, it's evidence of bad management. This company could, as Terri says, have a different viewpoint.
However, I do wonder about Terri's viewpoint. This raises a red flag for me -
"No one liked him because he had an attitude."
People we view as having "attitudes" or "bad attitudes," are generally those we see as being in a position inferior to ourselves. We'll say our children have an attitude, or a bad attitude. An employer will say an employee has a bad attitude. It's not usually a comment we make in regards to those we perceive as being equal, or superior, in stature to us.
posted on July 31, 2001 10:42:09 AM
Donny, you have a bad attitude.
Sometimes I have a bad attitude.
What's that say?
LOL
What I meant was, he was "aloof". Afraid to appear to be doing any work that was "beneath him". As a manager in food service years ago, the ideal was to have a dishwasher show up everyday. Sometimes it's didn't happen. Guess who washed the dishes? To not do so, to hide in ones office while your "team" suffered, would be having an "attitude". That's what I meant.
Does that mean a manager is a bad manager if an essential employee has a death in the family? NO. If you don't pull your weight when the chips are down then you don't deserve the position. Leaders are leaders because they head up a "team"....not reign over them.
JMHO
T
And, if you have never washed the dishes, what qualifies you to make suggestions as to how to do the job more efficiently? SOME companies have their managers do a rotaion of EVERY job under them as part of their training. Maybe a good idea?
[ edited by jt on Jul 31, 2001 11:01 AM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 11:03:47 AMIt's not usually a comment we make in regards to those we perceive as being equal, or superior, in stature to us.
Well, naturally a customer will perceive a difference in "stature" between themselves and an service provider, said service being paid for by said customer. When I receive poor service for a service I've paid for, I often ascribe it to attitude. Makes no difference what color the person with "attitude" is, white black, brown, purple or polka dotted.
posted on July 31, 2001 11:06:31 AMPeople we view as having "attitudes" or "bad attitudes," are generally those we see as being in a position inferior to ourselves. We'll say our children have an attitude, or a bad attitude. An employer will say an employee has a bad attitude. It's not usually a comment we make in regards to those we perceive as being equal, or superior, in stature to us.
I dunno, Donny. Some people get their jollies having a 'tude. And if they are perceived to have one, then they accomplished that goal. That is, if thats the goal they were aiming for. If not, then smoke=fire.
edited because my keyboard is 'tuding me.
[ edited by hepburn on Jul 31, 2001 11:07 AM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 11:11:09 AM
I had a problem recently at work, because some of the other "girls" said I cop'd a 'tude. I didnt realize thats what I was doing, but maybe it was seen that way because they are 18 and 20, and I am almost 50. 'Tudism is in the eye of the beholder.
posted on July 31, 2001 11:15:13 AM
Well, Helen, of course you are right. Just seems to me that there is a good bit of stereotyping going on here with regard to a bit of small town commentary (gossip) offered by Teri.
Stereotype:
Small Mississipi town = racism
white denizen of said town = racism
small town "gossip" by said denizen =racism
Fired employee (happens to black) = racism
I am curious to know, if the fired manager had been white, would you be so quick to label it an act of "racism"? After all, the store is black owned and the majority of employees are black, according to Teri.
posted on July 31, 2001 11:48:29 AM
I purposely avoided the word racism.
Mostly the whole thing struck me as a cliche. When I read that a manager in a Mississippi grocery store was fired for not offering to carry a lady's groceries, I just knew in my heart the guy had to be black. That's why I asked for elaboration.
Then when terri reported that "Nobody liked him because he had an attitude," (which to me sounded the same as saying he was "uppity" ), I felt confident enough to pose the question about his race.
And lo and behold, I was right.
The whole store policy strikes me as weird. What's this place called anyway? "Uncle Remus Groceries"? Where employees are required to step 'n fetchit while keeping a big zip-a-dee-doo-dah smile pasted on their faces? Is this a selling point of this particular store -- that they keep old "southern values" alive? What a treat that must be for the local citizenry, that they can cruise on down to the grocery store and be sure they'll be waited on hand and foot by blacks, just like in the good old days.
Does the word racism apply here? I'm not sure, since the guy worked there of his own free will and chose not to follow the policies. And as terri mentioned, the store owners are black.
I'm not sure what you'd call it. But something about it smells funny.
posted on July 31, 2001 01:08:30 PM
Well, I know that Im going to cop a tude the next time I go to the market and the manager is too uppity to carry out MY bags. I dont want the bag boy/girl to do it. I want the MANAGER. Humph.
