posted on July 31, 2001 01:32:54 PM
Nevertheless, I wouldn't feel smug about the fact that someone lost their job because he didn't carry out my groceries, regardless of the store's policy. Not even if I had 2 broken arms.
As a reminder, Terri, the word drill was your word for getting very personal information about the new manager:
I gave him the drill...asked for his complete work history (car salesman), where does he live (in the city), mother's maiden name (confidential), etc, etc.
That doesn't sound to me like someone just trying to welcome the new kid on the block.
I suspect this new manager would not have the luxury of telling you to mind your own business.
posted on July 31, 2001 01:38:10 PM
Well you are a gambler spaz.
You had more then a 50% chance for the town in general, and a 15:1 chance with the store. I wonder how you EVER came up with that one?
If you asked me if the doctor in town (who also owns the clinic) is a white male, what do you think I will say?
Little test.
T
It had nothing to do with gambling. The stereotypical circumstance, combined with the tone of your post (see Femme's message above), led me to believe that the fired manager must be black. I wouldn't have asked otherwise.
posted on July 31, 2001 03:31:19 PM
All Southerns are racist. We despise all blacks. We like them to bow when we walk in and say yes'sir and yes'mam. We think we are gods for no other reason than paler skin color.
I have never encounted such a WARPED idea of people in my life until here. It is highly insulting to white AND black. NOTHING I could say EVER could change the twisted view that some here have in their ignorance (lack of exposure). I am GLAD that we live where we do so my kids grow up with the CORRECT racial view.
Answer: The doctor (and clinic owner) is a black female. What would your assumption be? (no reply expected but perhaps revealing to yourself)
posted on July 31, 2001 03:52:14 PM
My overall reaction to your last post, Terri, is "no doubt!" I shouldn't even say that much, but since I've started, I'll say something else, that you probably won't agree with.
As a person who grew up in the North and has lived in the South for about 20 years, I believe that someone who has only lived in the South can't really understand what Southern racism is. Additionally, I've found that black people here in the South will say things to me about prejudice here in the South, (me being a "Northerner" ), that they're not saying to Southern whites. This has been my experience.
When I first moved down here, during my first week at the public high school, I had no fewer than a dozen black people, strangers to me, ask me the same question, over and over - "Is there prejudice up North" I told them each the same thing - "Yes, there is, it's only that there are more groups that people are prejudiced against." Not one white person ever, then or since, asked me that question.
Had I answered that question today, after being here 20 years instead of only a week, I would have answered it differently. Yes, there is prejudice up North also, but it's not the same.
[ edited by donny on Jul 31, 2001 03:52 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 04:00:14 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe Terri was joking when she said she "gave the new manager the drill"? As in, tongue in cheek? And if she was, would any of you that are thinking what youre thinking, believe her if she said as much, now that opinions have been formed? If she wasnt joking, and seriously drilled the new manager, why and how can one form such judgements on hearsay from one side stated in passing? Oh, I know. She brought it up. She said it. We wouldnt know if she hadnt have told us. She bragged. She this. She that. Sheesh.
Terri simply has no chance on this board...logic or reason has nothing to do with it. It's a shame. I have to admire her tenacity, while often disagreeing with her positions. I've seen nothing in her posts that would identify her as a racist...ever.
This is the Round Table...of course, no one comes out and actually says Terri's a racist. It's just a constant implication. You know the dynamics of this place as well as anyone here.
posted on July 31, 2001 06:58:26 PM
Well Toke, even worse than implicating Teri as a racist, is the condescending attitude that as a native Southerner, she doesn't understand racism and wouldn't recognize it when she saw it. As hepburn says, Sheesh!
posted on July 31, 2001 07:42:54 PM
I just lost a 500 word thesis.
Something that may not be understood:
Every grocery here (not Wal-mart) carries every person's groceries to the car..or at least they offer. Some stores allow tipping. Others do not. Bag people are often high school kids (black and white) or retired people (usually white). Not at this particular store.
On the day in question that the asst. manager ticked me off, I had a LOT more than milk and bread. No bag person was to be found. I had an entire cart. The parking lot of this store is ONE GIANT hill and the doors are manual. To try and get to the car while holding a child's hand in parking lot traffic, push the cart, and unlock the car, is nearly impossible.
Did it matter that (before race was an issue) I said that I really liked the new guy. He is also a black male. I did not give him a "drill" but instead I was friendly, asked him if he was looking for housing, acted genuinely interested and polite.
so spaz, You are saying that a black is acting racist against a black. Do you blame that on the fact that he lives in a majority white neighborhood 40 miles away? Has he thus achieved some degree of "whiteism" and therefore become racist by default?
Toke, I know I don't have a chance here. The odd thing is, I don't know why. Is it my breath?
T
posted on July 31, 2001 08:15:44 PM
In my opinion complaining about lack of a service that is standard in the establishment is fine. If upper managment decides to fire the employee over that matter, not only should the complainer not feel guilty of anything but I think it's reasonable to assume that said employee was not fired because he didn't provide the expected service this one time but rather this was merely the straw that broke a bad employee's back.
posted on July 31, 2001 09:34:44 PMjt: we've had our disagreements, but I will say that you--and your post--are getting the short end of the stick here. I think the fact that you live in the South makes you a target. I daresay that if I, living in California, or someone living in another region had told that anecdote, no one would have popped up asking about race. It would have been an issue between two people, not two colors.
If we're all honest, we'll admit that *all* of us have had times when we've felt satisfaction that someone who has treated us shabbily have gotten their comeuppance. It's human nature, unless you're a saint--a status none of us lay claim to, I'd wager. And that's all that Terri did. The fact that the guy "got it" because he was following the store's established policy made it even better.
posted on July 31, 2001 09:44:29 PM
Bunnicula, you got the same thing when you were talking about the hispanics in your area being rude and grunting. Assumptions that what you said was racist, but not said so in so many words. Just more finger pointing and by the same person who did the same to terri.
Terri, no, it isnt your breath, lol. Its just you, yourself, and there is nothing you can do about it except let them think what they want and continue to do what you have always done..being yourself. Someone once told me I was a magnet (before I finally dumped that aspect of who I was thought to be and wasnt). Maybe you too are a magnet. Cant be helped.
No matter what one says in passing or just general chatting. Someone will always feel the need to set them straight or point out their flaws ignoring that they werent asked to do so and its rude in itself to thrust ones opinions on another. Similar to the pun, "everyone is entitled to MY opinion". Like its the right opinion to begin with.
posted on July 31, 2001 09:48:42 PM
James, I didn't complain. I only said HERE that I was pleased. It was just po-dunk yack. I like it when people are entertained with my chickens and stuff. I don't like the racial nit picking over non-issues.
I made some photos today then a big storm came up before I got to the grocery. I will show you all some (boring) sights around town soon if you like.
**************************************
I was just watching CNN and saw Clinton moving into his new (second choice) office.
On the street he had blonde haired blue eyed white girls in cocktail dresses HOLDING out BOWLS OF COLLAR GREENS saying "Care for some?" while poor blacks came up and ate out of them with their hands. Now THAT IS OFFENSIVE in my opinion. And yet the blacks hailed him as a king. Go figure. Clinton is a goob.
T
posted on July 31, 2001 10:25:13 PM
This is the first I've heard of grunting Hispanics. Shouldn't someone be directing me to this so I can throw my two cents in?
Opinions - everyone's got them, and so what? Thrusting? I dunno, sounds a bit energetic to me. How about offering? You can accept it, reject it, or ignore it.
People see things differently. I just got back from Mississippi a few days ago. I didn't see the things there that Terri sees. She probably doesn't see the things that I saw. That's the way things go.
posted on July 31, 2001 11:24:49 PM
Having lived in Nashville, TN for six years, where I obtained an undergraduate degree plus several internships, I have to say this about the South:
Southerners are not as uptight about race or race relations as their Northern cohorts.
In fact, my experience was that most are eager to discuss the sins of the past, all while attempting to atone for it. That's not a practice in Northern, Eastern, Mid-Western or even Pacific states, where "de jure (spelling?)" racism is more subtle and prevalent.
Perhaps it's due to the painful history of segregation in the South, the "de facto" racism that was the law of the land. The South practiced it, was eventually embarassed by it and forced to change.
Other states, which may not have been slave holding governments, still racially discriminated against African-Americans in many public policies. I have not seen any of those states come forward and acknowledge their sins.
I add this simply because I don't think there is enough evidence to condemn what happened w/Terri's store manager. I often found most Southerners (white) to be more amenable than their Hoosier counterparts.
Just my piddly two cents here.
**edited for boo-boos**
[ edited by Baduizm on Jul 31, 2001 11:31 PM ]
posted on July 31, 2001 11:27:00 PM
Where did you go Donny? What did you see?
I don't plan to attempt to corner you nor to argue with you. I am just curious now that you brought it up.
I don't oppose a viewpoint from someone who's actually been here in the last 30 years or so. I will say that things ARE SLIGHTLY different the further you get from the capitol or the coast.
Now, a photo...to bring us back on the "live camera topic" per AW moderator request.
...ALMOST live, from city hall:
Statistics:
1 police car (that runs and I believe one that does not)
Police force racial statistics for the record: 100% African American
~and the photo ALMOST worked too.
[ edited by jt on Jul 31, 2001 11:36 PM ]
posted on August 1, 2001 12:28:44 AM
Well, Baduizm, I've lived in Georgia for about 20 years, and I see things a bit differently.
Rather than:
"Southerners are not as uptight about race or race relations as their Northern cohorts."
I see it more as a case of Southerners not being as sensitive about race relations as their Northern cohorts. Is that the same thing?
Anecdotally, in one job my boss was a black woman. A white female co-worker, in her early 20's, declared, apparently quite openly, to other co-workers, on the job, that she wasn't going to take orders from some (fill in the blank).
Of course that got back to the boss. I never heard about it until I was helping the boss with an after-work errand/doing a little socializing. She told me about it, and then asked me - What did I think?
I would have given anything to be anywhere else but sitting in the car alone with my boss. What my co-worker had been unashamed to say, I was ashamed to the point of speechlessness to hear. I stuttered. I stammered. I probably even blushed. I could hardly look her in the eye.
"...history of segregation... ...The South practiced it, was eventually embarassed by it and forced to change."
All that's right, except the "was eventually embarassed by it" part. The South practiced it and was forced to change.
Here in Georgia, the debate about the Confederate flag being part of the State of Georgia flag had been going on for quite some time. What the "upholders of tradition/keep the flag like it is/Glory of our Ancestors" faction glossed over is that the Confederate flag was only added to the Georgia State Flag at the time of forced-desegregation. The Confederate flag on the Georgia State flag was never a symbol of "The Glorious Dead." It was a symbolic thumb-nosing and continuous, silent griping about being forced to de-segregate.
Anyway, I'm not at all sure that we here think that Tennessee is sufficiently south enough to be entirely trustworthy... Tennessee... that's... up North somewhere, isn't it?
Terri, I went to Biloxi or, more properly, Ocean Springs, took a house on the beach for a week. I go to Biloxi once or twice a year or so.
Yes, the coast is somewhat different. I got into a conversation late one night with a guy from another place in Mississippi (forget where he said), who told me it was much different from the rest of Mississppi (by way of assuring me, I think, that I would enjoy it.) He seemed thrilled to be there.
What did I see? Well, except for the casinos being there, and the Vietnamese, it's not that much different from the rest of the South and, inside the casinos, it's not really different at all.
posted on August 1, 2001 10:51:13 AM
The casinos are like toxic waste. I wish for a hurricane to wash them out to sea.
Once the beautiful homes faced the gulf. Now they all face parking lots, neon lights, and "We cash welfare checks!" signs. I hate the coast now so I go to Alabama or Florida instead. If something is really shameful about our state, it's the casino industry.
T
Actually, I can see the evacuation route from my house and when there is a hurricane in the gulf off New Orleans it's bumper to bumper for 7 hours drive. EVERY hotel room from Jackson to Memphis will be full and people sleeping in the coliseum. That's not good.
T
New post office:
And the local gossip is....
Some undisclosed person who already owns 5 houses and a teeny tiny business and a for fee fishing pond is thinking of building a road and selling their land in residential lots. In the form of residential lots in a developing neighborhood, the going rate would be near $10,000 an acre. They have 120 acres. Nice. So the moral is, always say nice things about people cause you never know if they might soon be a millionaire.
For Helen: I believe that your dad is buried just to the left of this photo. If you would like me to find his grave for you and send you a picture of his headstone, let me know. I would also be willing to place flowers there for you.
[ edited by jt on Aug 4, 2001 12:07 AM ]
