For goodness sake...how can you condemn an entire state and say you object to intolerance? There is racism and oppression everywhere...not just the South. C'mon up to Massachusetts... I've heard the "N" word more here, than anyplace else in my life. Here's where they paint swastikas on synagogues and trash Jewish cemeteries.
It's just so unfair to say all this evil is coming from one region. When I lived in California...you should have heard all the nasty "wetback" stuff. It's everywhere, Helen.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:49:07 PM new
Now, I don't want to be ignorant and Helen has perked my interest with this map. I feel that I should educate myself about these hate groups.
Let's see:
FreeMississippi http://www.FreeMississippi.org/
(a PRO-Flag group who does not in anyway endorse racism but wants to preserve Southen Culture. I have heard of them, yes.)
Council of Conservative Citizens
I know nothing about this group. Never heard of them. Here is the web site. Let's find some dirt on this group. (I don't consider the flag on the web site to count until we know what it means to them.)
http://www.cofcc.org/
Hmmm there DOES seem to be some racially biased suff here. Like I said, never hear of them. I do note that they are based in St. Louis, MO. (That's north of Memphis, right?)
Nation of Islam. Know them well. They are a black group highly racist toward whites. They are not based here. I have seen them in suits on the street in majority black neighborhoods. they once refused to sell me a newspaper.
Moving on..
World Church of the Creator in Raymond MS, a po-dunk town about like mine. First Baptist Church here has 300 in attendance on an average Sunday. I must wonder what there membership is. They DO appear to be a racist group.
League of the South. Now this one is interesting. Looks like they want to secede.
Here's their message as I understand it:
Statement of Purpose
We seek to advance the cultural, social, economic, and political well being and independence of the Southern people by all
honourable means.
"Here in the United States, a new group of Southerners is calling for nothing more revolutionary than home rule for the states established by the U.S. Constitution."
"On the state level, self-government should be restored to the towns and communities that make up the states. This means an end, not only to federal interference, but to state interference in local government and local schools."
"Southerners respect the rights of all Americans in every region to preserve their authentic cultural traditions and demand the same respect from others."
"After so many decades of strife, black and white Southerners of good will should be left alone to work out their destinies,"
"If Southerners were any other people in the world, the campaign to rob them of their symbols, their history and their cultural identity would be termed cultural genocide"
I do see some Klan Groups listed there. If they exist aside from four 90 year old men meeting in secret, I would be shocked. I note than they are all in towns with populations in the hundreds so they can't be much of a threat.
Did I miss any?
Odd that American Family Association is not listed since they are a Christian gropu which among other things "promotes man woman marriages" as the Biblical standard. I have seen them on another list.
I feel educated enoungh now.
Now, collard green recipes anyone? Cast iron care?
T
~too much messy space at bottom, nothing more.
~oops, and correcting spelling of secede.
[ edited by jt on Aug 4, 2001 06:51 PM ]
And you don't understand what they're saying, do you, Terri?
"After so many decades of strife, black and white Southerners of good will should be left alone to work out their destinies,"
Read - Roll back to pre-Civil Rights Act era.
"On the state level, self-government should be restored to the towns and communities that make up the states. This means an end, not only to federal interference, but to state interference in local government and local schools."
And let's get rid of that pesky Voting Rights Act and the "interference" that sprung up after Brown vs. BOE too.
I'm not even going to go on, except to say that, re: "I do see some Klan Groups listed there. If they exist aside from four 90 year old men meeting in secret, I would be shocked," you can commence to being shocked.
posted on August 4, 2001 07:32:56 PM new
I live way up north and I always cook in cast iron. I am interested in the greens though.
Some good recipes for using mustard greens would be nice. I planted some for the rabbits to eat and have too much for them so I am going to have to eat some myself. Never have so...Teri...have you any recipes?
I've been enjoying the small southern town information myself. If it weren't for the heat ,the mosquitoes, the snakes, the spiders and the tornadoes I would consider moving there.
posted on August 4, 2001 07:47:52 PM newdonny, I remember the Klan in Georgia in the 1960s. My father worked for the Feds and regularly watched the Klan. I'm sure my mother would have been angry had she known that my sister and I attended a Klan rally, courtesy of my father. Of course we had been given instructions about not getting out of the locked car or being our usual smartass selves. I seem to remember a lot of little hooded people in attendence - guess they would be in their fifties now. I doubt all of them became liberals.
posted on August 4, 2001 09:11:21 PM new
My my, miss helen has her smithyriddles bunched up yet again. Happy hour is in full force, eh?
Katyd, you can hitch a ride with me to terri's place. However, I dont like collard greens, so hows about we cook up something else in that cast iron pot?
posted on August 4, 2001 10:57:53 PM new
I only know of one way to cook them so here goes. As a note for those not growing them, you should be able to grow them up north with much success because here they are a winter veggie that wilts in summer and will grow so long as there isn't frost.
Collar Or Turnip Greens
Use a large cast iron pot with a lid.
Two ways to start:
1. You need Salt Pork, also known as "Fat Back". I don't know if you can get that everywhere. It's a big cube of fatty bacon that has been salt cured and VERY salty. If you can get it, put it in the pot with some water and boil it for a bit.
2. If you can't or prefer to use bacon, just save your bacon grease in the fridge until you are ready to cook, or cook some before you begin. the object is to get a good grease/water mixture going in the pot.
When you get that, PILE the greens HIGH in the pot because they will shrink a LOT. You want to mound it up to make a family batch.
Cook it until it looks like a wad of green chewing tobacco. Add water as needed to keep them covered once they cook down.
Now start your Southern Corn Bread. (Jiffy is fine cooked Southern style in a cast iron skillet. Melt a little shortening in the skillet before putting it in an pour the left over melted shortening in the batter.
When the greens are cooked to green chewing tobacco stage, add a bit of vinegar. (I like apple cider.) If you used bacon you will need to add a good bit of salt. Add some sugar to flavor.
How to eat them is as important as how to cook them. Serve the greens with hot corn bread. The green water than remains is called "pot liquor". You can either eat a bit of greens then stuff corn bread in your mouth and chew them up. OR you can split the corn bread and spoon pot liquor over it and eat it with a fork. Just make sure you get greens AND cornbread in your mouth at once or you are missing the desired flavor.
A second recipe...cook fresh green beans exactly the same way minus the corn bread. You have to cook them a LONG time as you can NOT overcook a Southern green bean. They should look like a pile of limp green fishing worms ideally.
Some other Southern things that I can cook are fried green tomatoes, fried okra, black-eyed pea patties, country ham with red-eye gravy, traditional Southern gravy, catfish several ways, New Orleans French Market Soup, chicken and dumplins, homemade fried pies...etc.
Something I don't know how to make and need to learn is Thanksgiving Cornbread Dressing. Based on my husband's family, Nothern Dressing is NOTHING like Southern dressing. (Doesn't even look similar.) My mom always makes it so...darn, I don't know how. I ask her but since we measure NOTHING it's hard to get a straight answer.
Hepburn, I did NOT say that I can cook these things all at once and get them done at the same time. I am MESSY and disorganized.
We might go out to eat. Do you like catfish? My fav place serves catfish (like NO other!), greens, pickled onions, hush puppies, cole slaw, fried dill pickles, fried onion rings, and they flip the cornbread at the table. Plus there's cute river pirates. http://www.mississippiresorts.com/cock_of_the_walk.htm
I will cook something for you, promise. I really don't LIKE to cook. It's just a chore. I just like to eat and talk about food.
T
[ edited by jt on Aug 4, 2001 11:02 PM ]
posted on August 4, 2001 11:27:00 PM new
Greens - Just think of it as prefering your salad cooked.
I live about 25 miles from the center of Detroit and it can't be any less of a "hell hole" than anyplace down South. About 60% of the population is dependant in whole or in part for some form of public assistance for their living.
When you go down there there are literally billions of dollars of real estate abandoned with roofs caved in and trees growing out of the windows.
The government and agencies are as corrupt as in a third world country. They can't keep the basic services like street lights and road repair going.
You can be treated very poorly for being black/white/caldean/hispanic or any other idenifiable group if you are in the wrong area or business. I have been refused service and been told I was not welcome for being white (by a black female) - for NOT being gay (by a white gay woman - I am pretty sure it was not a shemale)- I'm not guessing here - I was told to get out
But I have also been refused service out in the suburbs for being FAT at a barber shop - and angrily waved off and told at a garage sale that we don't have any GUY stuff!
I have seen poverty in new england and in the pacific northwest.
I like the little town we are in pretty well overall.
posted on August 5, 2001 07:37:27 AM new
Toke and KatyD
It is clear that you prefer to talk about corn bread, turnips and small town charm
on this thread and I will not interfere.
Before I leave, however, I want to make it clear that the fact that I know that there is racism in Mississippi and that I would not recommend a move to the state because of that and the widespread poverty, crime, and prevailing ignorance is not an indication that I am a bigot, as you suggested Toke.
Why do these poor people, who have nothing but a dubious life in heaven after death to look forward to, go to the polls and vote for a Republican is more than I can understand.
I am out of here and you can all rake me over the coals. I really don't give a sh*t.
Let's see..there will be Hepburn, Zilvy, Toke, Little jt and KatyD. Enjoy your goodhearted selves.
posted on August 5, 2001 08:25:09 AM new
Helen, I am curious about something. You seem to have so much hatred for Mississippi and I can't for the life if me figure out why.
When you moved to Washington at age 9, just before civil rights blow-up, how did the children in D.C. schools treat because you were from Mississippi?
T
posted on August 5, 2001 08:48:13 AM new
jt, I don't want to clog up your thread with replies to this question so I'll ask it seperately. "Where have you resided in your life?" I think it helps to understand why people feel and think the way they do. As a kid, I knew I was an outsider in the South. Oh, I had plenty of friends, but knew that I didn't fit in comfortably in all the aspects of my life that I found important. Moving away at eighteen gave me perspective. Perhaps Helen feels the same way, I'll let her agree or disagree.
And despite the greasiness of Southern food, it's some of the best around. I miss the greens from my elementary school. When I transferred to the city school in junior high, I never viewed school cafeteria food the same way.
posted on August 5, 2001 09:51:10 AM new
[b]I am out of here and you can all rake me over the coals. I really don't give a sh*t.
Let's see..there will be Hepburn, Zilvy, Toke, Little jt and KatyD. Enjoy your goodhearted selves.[/b]
You must really love us, Helen, to always bring us up when you start your ranting.
posted on August 5, 2001 10:04:21 AM new
hepburn - Well.....I personally enjoy all of you (Hepburn, Zilvy, Toke, Little jt and KatyD) and many others and all 'cause you are "your goodhearted selves". Variety is the spice of life.
"Helen, I am curious about something. You seem to have so much hatred for Mississippi and I can't for the life of me figure out why."
It is silly to think that I have hatred for a state. I have only compassion and concern. I really do know what I am talking about. When I
left Mississippi is not relevant because I have visited the state throughout my lifetime for long periods of time..... I have over 30 relatives there.
When Toke called me a bigot, I was just discouraging people from moving to the state not because I "hate" the state but rather because I feel that it is not a desirable place to live right now...especially with school aged children.
You pointed out the high crime rate and I did not accuse you of hating the state.
Gravid pointed out the racism that still exists but I did not accuse him of hating the state.
The school system is the worst in the country and I could produce that documentation.
I don't really know the source of the annimosity that I am experiencing on this board but I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the state of Mississippi.
Speaking of relatives...I have a cousin in Pascagoula and I have to give her a call about the hurricane. Maybe it will blow all those gambling boats away.
posted on August 5, 2001 12:21:35 PM new
Thank you for your response Helen.
As a note, I posted crime rates for the city. Small towns further away from the city would be nothing like that. People still don't lock their doors when they are home and never their cars.
I do miss the town where I grew up, I admit. This year has been hard because I lost my remaining 2 grandparents there, my dad went to prison, and my mom has moved to a different town. I feel that I have nothing to go "home" to now. It's just empty houses with no electricity. Even so, when I have been "home" to take care of business, it was wonderful when everyone in town gave me a hug and told me how much I have grown. (LOL- I would like to stop growing now.)
My grandma's house is for sale BTW.
(Little advertising.) HERE where I live, already deemed dirt cheap, it would sell for $70-80K...but there they are asking around $30K. Not too much to do there though but sit in the coffee shop or rock on the porch, or grow greens.
T
