jerzyboy
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:33:13 PM new
Just out of curiousity... does anyone remember specifically when and where Yahoo! PROMISED that Auctions would ALWAYS be free. I seem to see a lot of people on this board referring to this occurring last year sometime. Was it in a print ad, radio ad, interview, etc.?
The reason I ask is because someone also posted on this board a ZDNet interview with Tim Koogle from Oct. 7, 1999 in which he states "We are on the path to flipping that switch [to charging fees for auctions]" Now if Yahoo! was publicly considering the possibility of charging fees way back in 1999 it seems strange to me that they would PROMISE that Auctions would ALWAYS be free sometime during 2000.
Here's a link to that article:
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/1999/39/ns-10495.html
Any info would be appreciated... thanks.
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molly001
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:35:34 PM new
Grapey - Please don't apologize for what you are doing. Everybody has a different point of view and for good cause. Your efforts and views are yours and are to be respected. They are not necessarily wrong just like mine are not necessarily wrong.
People here are FRUSTRATED and you just happened to "parent the post" where the frustrations are being made known.
Other's words (especially mine) are by no means directed towards you personally. You just provided the vehicle for those of us who are fed up to vent against YaWho?
Blessings to Grapey!
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figmente
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:35:44 PM new
Amazing. Congradulations on being heard, and thank you.
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pegasus777
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:36:34 PM new
heygrape:
Keep trying if you must- but don't let it get to you when it doesn't do any good. I busted my gut trying to reason with eGREED and they refused to listen (while all the "pinkies" made it appear that they were listening)
I like the whistles and will keep them until they are a high priced collectible  (I think the shipping is more than the whistles cost anyway)
The collectible radios category listing order is now fixed. Too little, too late (IMO)
Why do they let the spam auctions remain??? There is a rule against spam auctions at Yahoo already. I reported a few a long time ago - plus some scam auctions and yet they remained up (and I stopped wasting my time reporting them) and yet they removed my rock protest auctions IMMEDIATELY even though neither of them violated ANY rules (I have repeatedly asked them which rule they violated and they could not answer)
My high price items are gone from Yahoo. I have 13 right now, 12 end tonight, and one ends Wednsday and that is IT unless they come to their senses, apologize, and promise that there will never be listing OR reserve fees. They have NO RIGHT as a VENUE to charge reserve fees. I will NOT pay them under any circumstance. That is why I left eGREED and I won't pay them anywhere else either (I had a few on eGREED this Fall and it made me sick having them there - I would rather starve than pay reserve fees)
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amalgamated2000
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:38:03 PM new
For the category mentioned the featured listings were what I posted and they are still a disorganized mess.
That's because you bid for placement of featured auctions. The are not out of order -- they are in order of the amount bid for placement.
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dimview
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:43:15 PM new
amalgamated2000,
Thanks for the clarification. Then everything regarding the listings is back to where they were months ago.
Now they only have a day to reconsider and scrap their ill-conceived listing fees.
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pyth00n
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:47:14 PM new
Grapey, Thank you for the work.
I'm not at all cynical about the prospects; not necessarily all that hopeful by this stage, but not ready to give up on them myself. Maybe some people who (are( open-minded in their group have decided to actually listen and try advocating some of these user-generated positions.
First, I do not think the whole system is due for an irrevocable meltdown on the 10th from everyone vanishing including bidders. I'd guess they have some time to listen and think more and go to a fee structure other than what's announced. If they wait until a disaster truly is obvious, well, *that* might be late for a recovery.
On a couple points mentioned in prior posts:
1) The first list of Featured shouldn't be expected to be reordered into times remaining, users are intended to be able to bid money for that top spot, and for reasonably high ones!
2) My memory and understanding has always been that Yahoo has always said they were *trying* not to charge direct listing fees or EOA commissions. (I'm sure the AW interview with Fitzgerald quoted him exactly along those lines.) They never have made PayPal level "always free" promises. I feel no sense of betrayal here at all, despite some of my acidic comments... I just think this is utterly the wrong way to go about raising revenue from this function. I've been frustrated by their unremitting appearance of not communicating, but indulging in spin control... and maybe, just maybe, communication may be opening up a bit?
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pegasus777
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posted on January 8, 2001 03:54:38 PM new
If their whole purpose is to get rid of "trash" auctions (their words, not mine) then WHY ON EARTH are they charging ILLEGAL reserve fees???
If they are "JUST A VENUE" then it is none of their business if sellers choose to use reserve auctions - and why do they think they have any business AS A VENUE to charge such fees???
I guess my $100. - $200. a month in feature fees isn't enough for Yahoo and I won't be listing as long as they want more (most of my auctions would cost $5.00 to list on Yahoo - I am tired of people saying it's "just a dime"
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heygrape
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posted on January 8, 2001 04:33:54 PM new
I want to thank Toyranch! He is actually the one that finally got me through to someone. And I'd also like to apologize to him because I badgered him to death too, because I wanted to get contact with Yahoo so badly.
Thank you ToyRanch!
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VeryModern
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posted on January 8, 2001 05:14:06 PM new
thank you grapey
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jarret
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posted on January 8, 2001 05:18:35 PM new
heygrape -
I wish you luck, but I'm afraid it won't work. I remember Amazon too, and if anything, the chances here are worse. I think alot of the sellers here are just into full-time sorry -for-themselves mode. Alot of the posts I've read lately would not inspire bidders, assuming there are any left.
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rustybore
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posted on January 8, 2001 06:01:57 PM new
I too would like to thank you for your efforts GRAPE. I know how nervous and concerned about talking to yahoo you were.
Thanks again
tyops? where?
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glass100
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posted on January 8, 2001 06:16:31 PM new
Now, is not the time to let our hurt feelings get in the way of progress. If they are willing to call and listen, then we better talk or quit griping at these boards.
I've not been doing auctions very long, but you folks have been invaluable to me in my transactions and dealing with customers. You know Yahoo better that Yahoo ever could.
So talk... and if you have any credentials, include those, so that Yahoo doesn't think all their sellers are a bunch of Yahoos. I've read threads from many of you that have XXX years as CEO, etc.
Just my $.02.
Thanks Grape! You go, girl!
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jwpc
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posted on January 8, 2001 06:21:40 PM new
HeyGrape - YOU DID GOOD - KEEP IT UP - I am glad someone has gotten something through to them -
ALTHOUGH I like others feel if they gave a hoot, it is easy enough to drop in and read these postings and see that the majority don't have a problem with FVF - just not listing fees.
I personally don't even care about the search feature, just the difference in the FVF and a listing fee will make or break Yahoo!
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD GRAPE!
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kasmoon
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posted on January 8, 2001 06:32:29 PM new
I applaud your efforts Grapey.
Still, I suspect this change was coming with all the other system changes made today anyway. The "Seller Performance Rewards" ends tomorrow, supposedly that was the reason for the jumble. With everyone paying the same rates they couldn't give the placement advantage to anyone (except those paying extra to feature).
Sincere Thanks for trying to get through to them.
Pegasus, I think they are bouncing the protest auctions under the general clause at the end of TOS:
"Any item which, in Yahoo!'s sole discretion...is inconsistent with the spirit of Yahoo! Auctions."
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heygrape
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posted on January 8, 2001 07:33:08 PM new
It's okey doke with me! I don't care what caused them to change the listing order as long as they did it! I'm a happy camper about that 
Now, if they would JUST fix the fee problem, we would be cooking with GAS!
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CAgrrl
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posted on January 8, 2001 07:57:44 PM new
GOOD WORK Grapey!!!
Thank you ! Thank you ! Thank you!!!!!!
My major gripe has been the stupid listing order all along. At least now if we pay the fees we have a shot at selling our stuff. Happy dance!!!!
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heygrape
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posted on January 8, 2001 09:40:36 PM new
I believe they did not understand why we were so upset and taking this all so personally.
I stressed and stressed that we are more than people using their site to sell our items. I explained we are on a quest. We have a personal interest in the success of Yahoo. We have put tons of our time in on this quest for months and months. We were trying to make OUR Yahoo #1. This was in our hearts and we worked our butts off for our cause and they were killing all our hard work and efforts. I really think this had an effect, because he did seem rather surprised and interested in this.
They did not realize we were out here doing what we were doing, and certainly didn't have a clue why. I do believe they will stop thinking of it as "them" and "us" when they realize that WE are in this with THEM and that is why we care so deeply.
I sure hope he calls some of those numbers I sent him or I'm gonna look like the biggest Bafoon on Yahoo. Owell... to me it was worth the risk. gulp....
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outoftheblue
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posted on January 8, 2001 10:07:07 PM new
The one thing I don't get is the reserve fees. What's the point? I can see why ebay charges reserve fees (not that I agree with the practice). Because they also charge a FVF. Yahoo, on the other hand, has little to lose by having reserve auctions. They are not charging FVFs.
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CAgrrl
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posted on January 9, 2001 12:45:12 AM new
Perhaps they are trying to discourage sellers from using reserves. Or perhaps they are just trying to make every penny they can. Or maybe it's some combination of the 2. I personally could care less about reserves because I don't ever, ever use them. Have not once set a reserve on anything I've ever auctioned. I think it's better not to, because I know I don't usually bid on reserve auctions and I think a lot of other bidders feel as I do. Especially Yahoo bidders- they HATE guessing games. But at any rate, it does seem like a bit much to go from NO fees (or feature fees only) to all kinds of fees (featured, reserve, & listing) all at once, so I do feel bad for the sellers who are in the habit of using reserves. But my advice to them would be, get out of the habit- fast.
Grapey- funny you should say that, because I put the same exact sentiment in an email to Yahoo just yesterday- how I felt that a lot of us have worked so hard at promoting Yahoo to all our auction customers and also to the users on the message boards where we post, and that I for one was feeling like all of it has been a total waste of time.
Well, I don't feel so bad now that the listing order will supposedly go back to time-ending (although I checked my category a couple hours ago and all the listings there were still jumbled up- I guess it will just take a bit of time to de-scramble everything.)
It would still be nice if they'd reconsider the listing fee & swith to a FVF if they need to. It would also be nice if credit card payments weren't a mandatory thing- money order or paydirect options would be nice as well- but with the listing order going back I'm at least placated.
I was trying to think of some other feasible way to get rid of those "get rich quick" and "recipe" auctions. The get rich quick ones I understand are "junk", I wouldn't bid anyway, but hey, I might actually bid on recipe auctions!! If they look really good and the price was low, I mean...I'm trying to cook more (my boyfriend does all our cooking & I really should pitch in more) but I seriously am no good at it without some sort of guidance!! Know what I mean?
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lovepotions
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posted on January 9, 2001 04:27:31 AM new
I personally frown on reserve priced listings.
Someone selling a $100 item starting at a buck is a scam that some ebayers use to collect email addresses of people to sell stuff on the side too. I have bid on a reserve price item only to find myself on mailing lists owned by that seller. Or got spam emails trying to sell me their other merchandise.
The minimum price you could accept for an item should be your opening bid price.
Some poeple use the reserve price thinking that if they get a lot of bids on it it will appear on the hot auction list or featured as a hot bidding item which it won't on any auction site and is specifically stated in the in policies.
Bidders don't like reserve auctions and don't like sellers playing games with them.
On some of them the reserve price is close to the opening bid price and fairly reasonable.
Some sellers abuse it and make really expensive items with starting prices of a buck. Even if it is something I would love to have I'll pass on it and be annoyed at the nerve of that seller. I will not play a sellers game and place 100 bids a dollar at a time to find this elusive reserve price.
Add a little flavor to your love life with "Love Potions"
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VeryModern
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posted on January 9, 2001 06:44:50 AM new
The problem here is that the people you are talking to think they know more that you do. They think they are competent - otherwise why would they have the job they do? Arrogance, pure and simple.
I remember my Frito Lay days and we got a new Pres who introduced 74 new products in a months time.
The had meetings at posh hotels for the sales staff to introduce these new offerings, believe me they spared no expense. The packaging was ultra expensive - this was a huge gamble
So end of a 2 days romp at one of these hotels we were allowed to taste this stuff.
I put a "Topples" in my mouth, glanced at one of the guy's I worked with - spit it into my hand and said "We're in trouble."
Needless to say every single one of the products failed - lose of millions and the pres of course lost his job. I personally threw so much of this stuff away - I can still *smell* it.
Now they could have asked a lowly 25 yr gal (me) how these things were going to fly and I could have told them.
This is one of those cases - "can't see the forest for the trees".
Gonna be a long fall Yahoo.
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labelle
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posted on January 9, 2001 07:04:51 AM new
VeryModern
You hit the nail on the head. I believe these guys needed a quick fix for ad sales losses. So where is the biggest user base on Yahoo who is making money on their site? The auction seller- that's where!So let them pay !
It is so incredibly obvious that these folks used no basic marketing tools from Marketing 101.No market research was done!!!Of they are MBA's - maybe they got them feom the same online place trhat keeps oddering one to me for $39.95.They looked and saw people with money and decided that they deserved some of it- they needed some of it. They probably had some projections done of seller attrition due to policy change and figured enough would stay to maintain ad revenue and they would still have a profit.I don't think their isolated selves figured that their pet dog would snap back at them. We didn't react according to their model.No wonder that they are confused. But, you 've got to give them one thing- they are trying to compromise. Now, maybe they will run some new projections using FvF and find a way to scan the site for junk and eliminate the multiple listing of it. Some poor flunky could do it manually for about $20,000 a year.There is hope.
cathy
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VeryModern
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posted on January 9, 2001 09:04:53 AM new
Cathy - I believe that Yahoo is going to learn very swiftly that their models are flawed to such a degree that they are worthless.
The major problem here is that they are based on yesterday's reality which is gone and not coming back. See, what goes down (the stock market) has went right back up for some years now but those days are done like dinner.
The stock price goes down and it stays down. In fact, it does not go back up for years and years and years. Same with the auction count.
This bounce back thing is no longer in the air.
We are in the land of reality now, and it will not work the way they want it to work, and more than Frito Lay is going to be able to sell what is essentially dog biscuits to people by putting them in a fancy bag. People are not emotional about this, they just leave the thing on the shelf - and sellers will do the same with Yahoo.
Read all these comments and then ask yourself "how often is the whole world wrong?"
I also have some hope.
The auction count "adjustment" will be violent and if there is a lick of sense out there - they will take quick action to stop damage.
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heymom
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posted on January 9, 2001 11:10:06 AM new
Thanks Grape you did great I appreciate your efforts.
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heyheyjan
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posted on January 9, 2001 12:42:42 PM new
What a GOOD CITIZEN! Thanks! Maybe Yahoo! will make some positive changes & get some much needed traffic.
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dreamgirl
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posted on January 9, 2001 01:25:30 PM new
heygrape - I've been reading the comments and reading about your efforts to get Yahoo administrators to take notice. I have been listing on Yahoo for over a year and have enjoyed the experience very much. At present I have almost 400 items listed. They are for the most part low cost items of quality. It would not be cost effective to pay listing fees, hence I will be drastically reducing if not completely leaving the auction expiernce via Yahoo. I too am sad regarding the pending demise of EBay's largest competitor which is true because of seller and buyer effort and not Yahoo Administrative efforts. If they can't see this, there is really nothing we can do. I do not wish to talk with them. I may get one of there "canned" responses which in general make me gag. They would be better served to try determine why the buyer base has left the scene in the last 4 months rather that dreaming up ways to run the rest of them off with the sellers.
Thanks again for your efforts. I am willing to remain with Yahoo in its present mode but not in its projected "new unveiling".
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heygrape
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posted on January 9, 2001 03:23:08 PM new
Moderator: Please close this thread. heymom is a troll and heyheyjan doesn't even list on Yahoo.
Thank you,
Grapey
[email protected]
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suz23
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posted on January 9, 2001 04:04:22 PM new
Good for you heygrape! I am very impressed! I wish you could talk to amazon! All I want is a tab for auctions on their front page!
If Yahoo has made one change because you and others asked for change, I am also impressed , regardless of all the other errors they have come up with. THis is 100% improvement over Amazon who killed their wonderful auction site. No bidders and I still continue to list! I am going to watch Yahoo and see what happens in the next few weeks. I was going to list after the New Year with them but will have to see what sells. I too, think they could offer competition to ebay. ( I sell there too )
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joice
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posted on January 9, 2001 04:08:33 PM new
Locked at request of originator.
Heygrape,
Since AuctionWatch.com Members don't always use their auction I.D.'s or emails when signing up for membership here, your suppositions may be incorrect.
Joice
Moderator.
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