posted on October 2, 2001 05:21:55 AM
Well, I'm not all that worried or upset about being retina scanned at the airport or the like. The one that REALLY gets my panties in a wad is the plans to install cameras at all traffic lights to get the license plates of anybody who speeds or runs a light [even if the light is yellow].
That never used to bother me before, of course, but now that I have my sports car...
Exactly! I would love to be able to put my hand on my doors and gain entry without keys. I'm always trying to "click" my way into my house now. Needless to say, my car clicker just doesn't work that way. There are so many really cool and practical uses for the techonology and I for one just can't see allowing fear to deprive me of the advances.
Before you presume to know me, you must realize that I am a unique American with many facets of my personality and life!
posted on October 2, 2001 05:25:01 AM
Biometric access is OK as long as you have a back up. I can see myself trying to get in my car after a firefight only to discover my palm print won't read because my hand is all smeered with blood or my thumb is shot off.
Voice recognition tends to degrade with stress also.
When they have a DNA scan that works in seconds they will really have something basic. Of course you need a way around having someone slice off a quick sample and jamming it in the sensor. Make it sense the blood oxygen level also?
posted on October 2, 2001 05:29:23 AM
Godzilla^ - Our law here is you are OK if you are already in the intersection while it is yellow. How can that work if you are not permitted to enter the intersection while the yellow is on? It is physically impossible if you are right at the line when it goes yellow.
posted on October 2, 2001 05:52:29 AM
I don't like those lights either even though they are fairly mainstream in Holland. What really P*SSES me off are the feckin' cops that hide in bushes with speed guns. OK, I admit I'm mad cause I was caught by one 2 nights ago (I think, haven't gotten the ticket yet)
But here's the even scarier part of these camera systems. There are suggestions to use them between cities with software that would compute if you could have been speeding anywhwere along the route.
So, oppose those cameras while you can, this is the next step
posted on October 2, 2001 05:56:22 AM
In all seriousness...
I think what it all boils down to is "do you trust the government"? In theory, the only people who should be worried about biometric technology are the ones who have something to hide -- the criminals and terrorists. I can joke about not wanting to get caught speeding or running a light, but the truth is that I shouldn't be speeding or running lights in the first place and I really have no cause to complain if I get punished for doing it.
That's the theory. In practice, however, there seems to be a strong fear on behalf of many that the "government" will abuse this power, and either mistakenly target innocent people who fit a particular "profile" or, worse yet, purposely target innocent people with unpopular political views.
Here are a few things to keep in mind:
1. At the time the Constitution was written, with all of its guarantees of various rights, America was a colony of a monarchy, not the democratic [or republican, if you prefer] system we have now. We didn't have elected officials, and people didn't have a say in how their government was run. Which is to say that many of the "rights" that were discussed in the Constitution were in the context of preventing an essentially "foreign" power from stripping away individual freedoms, not preventing an elected government from doing the same. The theory being, of course, that an elected government was made up of representatives of the people themselves, which would naturally prevent individual rights from being trampeled.
2. People talk about "The Government" as if it were some sort of gestalt entity [shades of The Borg] that always acted with a single purpose and can never be changed. In reality, however, the "government" is made up of many, many individuals, each with their own agendas, and each subject to being replaced at any time. Many, although certainly not all, members of the government are elected officials, meaning they are not only selected by the rest of the populace, but they are also answerable to their constituants. And the majority of the rest are appointed by the first group. Unless you believe there is a secret "cabal" behind the scenes that has been pulling the strings for the last 200 years, it's really hard to accept the notion of the government as a sinister force bent on stripping away the rights of individuals.
3. Having said the above, we also need to acknowledge that it is possible for a particular angency in the government to get out of control, gain too much power, and begin to wield that power inappropriately. Look at the IRS, for example. All of a sudden, they are able to seize property based on nothing more than a statement that they suspect that you are guilty of not paying your taxes, and even if you are totally cleared you never get your property back. So yes, it is possible that giving too much power to the Justice Department, or the CIA, or the FBI, or whoever, may lead to eventual excesses and abuses. Fortunately, though, if an agency does abuse its power, there are still ways to reign in that power, as we have seen recently with the IRS. If this biometric stuff DOES get totally out of hand, we will still have the ability as a nation to repeal the laws and oust the agency heads involved.
I guess my point is that when people say they don't trust "The Government", they are operating under what I feel is a false assumption, i.e., that the Government is a unified entity wholly divorced from the individuals who comprise it or who support it.
Barry
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on October 2, 2001 06:09:27 AM
[QUOTE]Having said the above, we also need to acknowledge that it is possible for a particular angency in the government to get out of control, gain too much power, and begin to wield that power inappropriately.[/QUOTE]
I am in total agreement here. We must always be on the lookout for abuse of power and be ready to step in and take legal actions to control such abuses. (Most especially by the IRS !!!)
Before you presume to know me, you must realize that I am a unique American with many facets of my personality and life!
posted on October 2, 2001 12:36:04 PMdeliteful:Thank you for, hopefully in the future, allowing me to have my own thoughts and my own opinions and the opportunity to speak those thoughts and opinions for myself.
The thing is, you have given us your thoughts & opinions on this matter. You have expressly said you personally have no problem with giving up certain rights and/or liberties in order to be "safe." Why get all hoity-toity when people take your statements at face value?
And your new sig file is a bit prententious, don't you think? All people, regardless of whether or not they are Americans, are unique individuals with many facets to their personalities and life.
edited for UBB
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 2, 2001 12:44 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2001 12:43:23 PMGodzillatemple: Actually our government--any government--is a gestalt entity in a manner of speaking. It wields great power over the daily lives of all of us. It has in the past, and will again in the future, moved against those it perceives as a threat to its existence. The people who founded this country knew this about governments & that is why they took steps to safeguard certain rights and privileges for us. A wise move--because ever since there have been almost constant moves to limit or take away those very right & privileges.
posted on October 2, 2001 12:57:00 PMbunnicula: Well, I may be hopelessly naive, but I'm going to continue to believe that the individuals who comprise the government will keep the government as a whole in check. The great thing about a republic with many states is that it's very hard for one special interest group to take over. And as long as we continue to elect officials who we feel will act in our best interests, I don't think the government as a whole will turn against the people.
That doesn't mean, of course, that we shouldn't continue to speak out when we perceive that our rights are in danger. I just don't think we need to panic about it or become "anti-government" in the process.
Barry
P.S. Some people don't express themselves via the written word as well as others do. Therefore, you can never presume to know what somebody is really thinking simply by reading their words. Anytime you disagree with someone, in fact, it's simply because you misinterpreted what they really meant to say. I hope that clears things up for you. If not, well, it's your fault for not understanding what I really meant....
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
[ edited by godzillatemple on Oct 2, 2001 12:57 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2001 01:19:55 PM
But the problem I see is that government grows in size and complexity and there is rarely any mechanism to trim away the obsolete and restrain government from overreaching their limits.
Sooner or later it will get so over sized and so limiting that people will rebel. It is no longer possible to march out with your muskets and overthrow them so most of the rebellion will be economic - cheating on taxes, smuggling and black economy but some will be physical and when people can't fight you head on the form it takes is usually something we would call terrorism.
Every year it becomes harder to start a business or work without permits and licenses. Each year it becomes harder to work for businesses that do work for the government. Right now it is much more difficult to get oriental people to hire into a company that is a government contractor than it was 5 years ago because they percieve the Federal government as biased against them for security reasons. The city state and federal government all conspire to keep the "garage" start up from happening - and face it. That is where some of the best innovation has come from.
Here in Detroit for example there are so many rules and restrictions on cabs that there are a lot of "jinnys" - bandit cabs that work for cash and can take poor people to the store or doctor for a price they can afford outside the license system. There is room for that sort of thing to expand a great deal beyond cabs.
Of course it will be hard to run an illegal business if there is a camera on every corner watching your routine.
I've been called many names in my time, but you are the first to throw out the insult "hoity-toity".
I guess you really told me off.
Jess
Edited to add back in my sig line which I removed since it did not seem to fit into my Tingler postings, however I would not want to deprive Bunni of having something to sniff at.
Before you presume to know me, you must realize that I am a unique American with many facets of my personality and life!
[ edited by deliteful on Oct 2, 2001 01:30 PM ]
