posted on October 8, 2001 04:21:57 PM
That very well may end up being the way things go....only time will give us that answer. This stupid war will not solve anything, but it may create lasting problems that didn't exist before.
The terrorist attacks will/would have continued anyway. Have you not read the continual statements that their goal is for all of us (the infidels) to be dead? ALL OF US....whether or not we bomb any country....or just withdraw our total presense in the middle east and Isreal, as I believe you have suggested.
These terrorists only know violence. PERIOD! They don't care about their women and children. They don't care that their people are starving. They only care about their mission.....and one part of that is for there only to be Muslims alive.
Well, I'm not a Muslim, and I'd like to continue living in the good ol' USA thank you.
Do you think I want a war? Do you think I'm feeling great that our son's life might be taken while the US fights these monsters? No, but we're proud that he's willing to be involved in what's going to be a very long fight to stop terrorism. We've turned our heads the other way too long. It's not going to stop on it's own. We either fight it, or succumb to it. To me, there's only one way......fight the likes of it.
I don't believe the US can sit by and let the terrorist continue to grow in their numbers and gain strength in their world-wide missions. We (all those against terrorism) have to fight for what we believe in. I believe in and vote for freedom, the freedom I'm used to. I don't want to live or die under the likes of a bin Laden.
posted on October 8, 2001 04:23:27 PM
Ah so then you don't consider any part of the muslim world civilized? I won't ask about any nation in Africa but how about Russia? Are they civilized? Must be, they support our waste of time with:
"Experts and lawmakers in Moscow Monday deemed a ground military operation in Afghanistan unavoidable if the US-led military strikes are to achieve anything, but Russia seemed determined not to get too involved.
The United States will have to "use special forces (on the ground) to capture and eliminate Taliban Leaders and (terrorist suspect) Osama bin Laden" since US missiles launched against Afghanistan "are only destroying strategically meaningless objectives probably long deserted by
Taliban or terrorists," said former defense ministry senior official, General Leonid Ivashov.
Reformist deputy and head of the SPS party, Boris Nyemtsov, agreed, saying that the effectiveness of special forces on the ground would determine the outcome of the conflict.
"If they are effective, the Taliban regime may fall, but if not, the conflict will drag on," Nyemtsov said."
But no, we can't do that. It might endanger voters sons and daughters so lets just blow the whole place to smithereens--nevermind what we hit, it'll look good on TV.
posted on October 8, 2001 04:27:04 PM
Just another example of how the pro-Teliban operate. Sure...they care about their own.
Pakistani police clashed with pro-Taliban demonstrators in the city of Quetta Monday, killing one and injuring 17. Rioters set fire to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) building in Quetta.
Yep...these are the people I want to rule my world. NOT!!!
posted on October 8, 2001 04:34:48 PM
Yes I've said that I think that the US should stop meddling in the affairs of the middle east. In fact if the Israeli mechanisms were let loose on the terrorist groups I think that they could very neatly and quietly take the problem away from us and the rest of the world.
I have said many times that the guy should be killed. Take that to mean his coplanners as well. But this display of useless bombing is pure political hay. Your great leader is having his finest hour just like his father did, and just as effectively so far in eliminating the problem. What happened to all that about "this war won't be seen on the television"? That didn't last beyond the little boy's trainers realizing that if he didn't put on a show soon the people might lose faith in him. So now there's this fiasco broadcast all around by those ever hungry media talking idiot heads.
Bin Laden, or anyone, doesn't need Afganistan to have camp. He could do it right under our noses by leasing Camp Winnyhaha outside hometown USA during the boy scout's off season.
posted on October 8, 2001 04:44:59 PM
Oh gee, I thought you said "Fortunately it isn't selling to the leaders of the civilized world either" but I guess I should have known that you meant only some of the leaders of the civilized world.
posted on October 8, 2001 04:58:31 PM
What? Negotiate with Pakistanis? I thought they were on our side! TSK, all that effort to form a "coalition" by what? Oh yeah, negotiaton.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:01:43 PM
uaru - One of the things that brings comfort to me is the fact (according to the last Wall Street Journal poll I saw) that 90% of those polled don't support the 'understanding their rage' theory....they too want these horrors to be stopped.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:20:18 PM
Well, I have to agree with KRS on this one. Not out of sympathy, but just from a strategic standpoint. These bombings will accomplish little or nothing in the "war on terrorism." It reminds me of "the gang that couldn't shoot straight." So we blew up a few terrorist camps? They're nothing more than empty tents in the desert. According to ABC news, we've already run out of significant targets. Even Rumsfeld admits bombers won't solve the problem. This whole scenario so far has been nothing but a weak slap in the face.
In fact if the Israeli mechanisms were let loose on the terrorist groups I think that they could very neatly and quietly take the problem away from us and the rest of the world.
It's well-known that Israeli special ops is one of the best in the world, but even Israel doesn't make a policy of assasinating enemies. It's a nice daydream to dump the whole affair in Israel's lap, but perhaps it's time the U.S. determined its own policy and stood on its own two feet. America's policy vis. world affairs has come back to bite us on the ass, and we are totally unprepared. IMO, we should be targeting Bin Laden first. Carpet-bombing Afghanistan isn't enough. We have to make the touch choice now. We have to take out Bin Laden, with extreme prejudice.
Pakistan's position is probably of great interest to the U.S. All things considered, it would be better to have Pakistan as an ally than an enemy. And we're doing Pakistan a favor by destabilizing the Taliban.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:42:54 PM
twinsoft - Where have you read or heard that the 'carpet-bombing' is all the US intends to do? I have heard many times that this is to prevent those facilities from being used by the opposition and for the purpose of helping to protect our ground forces that will be there.
You and krs agree that this has been a waste of time....a show, if you will....but then use the words from quotes that say things like 'probably won't' 'probably aren't'....etc. IMO, better safe than sorry. Be sure those facilities won't/can't be used. Be sure their actions are hindered by lack of /loss of utilities and communications. Again, IMO, nothing wrong with at least 'trying' to protect our ground troops when they arrive. In any way we can.
So we blew up a few terrorist camps? They're nothing more than empty tents in the desert. Well, I'm glad that you know that better than our government intelligence sources do. Even Rumsfeld admits bombers won't solve the problem. I believe it's been said many times....this is just the beginning. This whole scenario so far has been nothing but a weak slap in the face. Good...that's a beginning too.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:50:27 PMNot one person on the ground under those bombs perpetrated the attack on the WTC. Not one.
With reasoning like that, the world would have sat back on its keester and let the Nazis have free rein, instead of fighting back for all they were worth. Hey wait, if that had been done we wouldn't be having the problems we are today--'cause you know that Hitler would have taken care of all the non-Aryan types once he finished with the Jews, homosexuals and political dissidents. Gosh, I wish our parents and grandparents had thought twice about fighting back for fear of hurting innocents--what were those mean old butchers thinking of, anyway?
edited for UBB
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 8, 2001 05:51 PM ]
posted on October 8, 2001 05:53:58 PM
Wish I were a hot graphic artist like some of you guys. I would add spam cans splattered all over that hovel and hin standing on a pile.
Do them good to have to choose between some pork shoulder or going hungery.
Young jewish guy used to have breakfast with my grandfather at his home when he had a construction business and the jid would point at the ham steaks and say "Pass the breakfast Salmon."
Come on Zilvey they did not have time to hear it from me. It was independantly invented.
posted on October 8, 2001 05:57:30 PM
I'm thinking of the perpetrators and planners of the Munich Games raid. One by one the people responsible were killed, probably not as a matter of policy, not as a deterrent to others, simply as a preventative measure. Clean and sure. Instead of going and taking out the problem the administration feeds the 'defense' contractors and follows the wishes of Unocal Oil.
Before it's over this country will lose sons to what? A national threat? Doubt it. These people, the most illustrious punk criminals in the world at the time could be dealt with in comparative ease. We have people who are as good as the Israelis and they're itching to go. No, they'll die for the interests of all of those who can see no other way to keep this country viable than by creating markets for it's most elaborate products and padding the accounts of it's many millionaires. A really crappy reason to die, in my opinion.
General Uaru hasn't kept up on his reading. I thought by now that the simple maxim "know thine enemy and he is yours" might have penetrated.
posted on October 8, 2001 06:03:21 PMBut this display of useless bombing is pure political hay
It depends on what they do when the bombing stops. Bombing is a precursor to any (smart)large movement of ground forces. If the northern alliance (or who ever???) moves quickly right behind the bombing, they can gain ground with out getting slautered. If they just bomb for a few days, and then everything is status quo after, yeah, it's useless.
It worked in Iraq, and got an army 100 miles into their country with not many causulties. (Yeah, I know, we gave the ground right back... that was political, but as a military tactic bombing works. If it'll work now depends on the politicians)
posted on October 8, 2001 06:11:55 PMHi Femme!Good to see you too!
Binladen says "God did this" to the USA because we are infidels.....um....Afghanistan must have been really , reallybad...look what has been happening to them for two decades. They don't even have a decent building left to bomb. Anything that comes from the mouth of any of those Taliban folks or Binladen means nothing.Just rhetoric and propaganda.
posted on October 8, 2001 06:16:17 PM
THe bombing is doing its job SInce we are still getting just a small part of the actual details and are still being fed lots of misinformation by the big news sources.
Not only is the bombing knocking out what airports and palnes and so on they do have there but its also distracting there attention from the Ground troups that were in the country before this started from 1500 to 2000 of them from the US and a few other countries.
There is no doubt that many of the areas they are bombing are nearly ghosted Because the US Allowed them the time to get out but they are not totally empty them guns and missles and tracer fire is not setting its self off.
Watch the game that is being played here, The US Is going to Work this part of the war out to look like a win or victory for the afgan northen alliance Giveing Muslims a way of saveing some face in this matter They may even be leading the US and brits in this since they know the country side far better.
When its all done it will look like afgan Muslims Turned over bin laden and his terrorist group dead or alive to the coalition.
THe non Extremist will look like the big Victors in all this and the US will get what it wants..
posted on October 8, 2001 06:25:13 PMThis stupid war will not solve anything, but it may create lasting problems that didn't exist before.
Is this estimation based on the unresolved Vietnam situation, the lack of follow through to completion in the Gulf War?
What would you suggest we do, krs? If you have stated your ideas on how to resolve this I may not have read the thread....so much information so little time.
Never mind I was a page behind on the posting!
[ edited by Zilvy on Oct 8, 2001 06:29 PM ]
I am very proud of your son. I thank him for his willingness to fight to protect all of us. I pray that he will be kept safe and will come home to you.
posted on October 8, 2001 06:35:40 PM
This crazy war on terrorism will result in nothing but overwhelming destruction and death. This war on "terrorism" is, in my opinion a fight for oil and natural gas resources of the Middle East.
Bin Laden and his terrorists cannot be destroyed with a few bombs in well chosen spots in Afganistan. Give me a break!!! How can anybody believe such nonsense?
It will only serve to kill a lot of people and reinforce the concept of Imperialistic America.
posted on October 8, 2001 06:42:12 PM
So you're saying that, in a quest for the for oil and natural gas resources of the Middle East, our government engineered the hijacking of airliners & caused them to be plowed into the WTC and the Pentagon so that they would have an excuse to go to war?
posted on October 8, 2001 06:53:26 PMBin Laden and his terrorists cannot be destroyed with a few bombs in well chosen spots in Afganistan. Give me a break!!! How can anybody believe such nonsense?
It will only serve to kill a lot of people and reinforce the concept of Imperialistic America.
Helen
So what is your plan Helen?Are you ready to go over there and do what is right, whatever you think that may be?
I have to Disagree with you on this This war already caused alot of death and distruction all in your own back yard.
This bombing is just the frist move The shoe everyone was waiting to see Drop But Weather we did this or we didn't it already caused death Are you saying this war was about oil you really think bin laden wants US OIL HAHA He can have it, its so costly we can hardly afford it any way.
Remember this war was started by them they commited the fist act Right here in this country By Irrational thinking Cult like group of terrorist Butchers who beat mame and kill there own people in the name of bin laden and the taliban.
The Terrorist who come to this country who's only reason to befriend you is to kill you They teach kids this from the day they are born.
Its not about Oil yes you can get oil out of a rock which is what afgan is mountins and rock but its cheaper to let others drill for it in the deserts..
posted on October 8, 2001 07:06:43 PMkrsGeneral Uaru hasn't kept up on his reading.
krs, I read, I just process the information different than you (I'm proud of that.)
I didn't predict military action to the day and time in a thread so prophetically titled "Tomorrow" I believe you called that one (wrong). Lucky that thread is gone huh?
I didn't announce that Bush had decided against bombing the Taliban in a thread titled "Bush Backs Away!", you played Nostradamus on that one (wrong).
You're kind of all over the place on your predictions aren't you?
Yes there are always two points of view on the correct action to take. I believe that was demonstrated when the House of Representatives voted to authorize the use of authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States (420 yea, 1 nay) The US Senate thought it was a proper response also (98 yea, 0 nay)Look at that, 518 misguided souls, and only 1 congress woman that could see your logic.
Tsk, tsk, tsk, you have so many yet to convert, good luck krs.
posted on October 8, 2001 07:25:42 PM
Well, I agree with Dman. The sooner we turn Afghanistan over to the rebels, the better. Sending ground troops in is a mistake, in my opinion. What do we have to gain? Unless we come out with Bin Laden's head on a spike. I don't know how much of a success the Gulf War was. Hussein is still thumbing his nose at us. If we're going to go in, we should finish the job.
Even if we remove Bin Laden, we haven't stopped Jihad. Not by a long shot. Did anyone see pictures of the rioting in Pakistan and Gaza? So what's next? Bomb the Gaza Strip?
We need to start targeting terrorist leaders wherever they are hiding, [just take them out] and hang world opinion.
posted on October 8, 2001 07:35:50 PM
dman3 - I like your 'vision' of how this could turn out. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
deliteful - Thank you so very much. Don't know if you saw the thread where many who post on AW posted that we have family members that could possibly be called/ have been called to duty. Many brave souls to be proud of....many who willing fight to protect our country and it's citizens from the horrors that these terrorists represent.
Yes, Helen, just how would you deal with any future attack on our soil, since you don't seem to believe that we should be doing anything about what has happened? How would you prevent or deal with any future attacks? Do you think if we do nothing the terrorists will just leave us alone? Please....share....I'd like to begin to understand how people like you think.
that was political, but as a military tactic bombing works. If it'll work now depends on the politicians)
).