posted on January 23, 2001 06:36:34 AM new
They are going down faster than I thought.
Some categories down over 50%!!! Some of my auctions are running until the 1st Feb. week with the free relists. So the true down numbers are still not reflected in those numbers.
Thank you dimview for keeping us informed.
heikejohn everywhere else!
posted on January 23, 2001 08:28:58 AM new
The related "glitches" in:
Auctions > Antiques, Art, & Collectibles > Miscellaneous > Medals
which had been reported as more than four million listings has now been corrected to 1,419 listings.
Auctions > Coins, Paper Money, & Stamps > Coins > United States
which had been reported as 28,201 listings has now been corrected to 17,003 listings.
posted on January 23, 2001 10:58:14 AM new
This quote really sums up the attitude of the Yahoo auction team:
"If you drill down and really look at things," she says, "some of the top sellers are here on Yahoo! and are doing quite well."
Some of the Top Sellers are all that they really care about.
Unfortunately, what the Motley Fools don't seem to understand is that the worst is yet to come. I see the listings falling off by at least another 50% - 75% of what they are now.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Jan 23, 2001 11:02 AM ]
posted on January 23, 2001 11:06:02 AM new
From the article >
Yahoo! won't confirm the totals but says its counts have indeed fallen. "There's been a drop-off," says spokesperson Nancy Gallinghouse. "We expected that. We knew it would eliminate the listings that were more like advertisements than true auctions. We expect more profit for the sellers now, because there's less stuff for the buyers to sort through."
Pure, unadulterated horse manure.
Of course some listings were advertisements, but that has nothing to do with listing fees. eBay has had listing fees from the getgo and they have them, Yahoo!Auctions now has listing fees and they too will have them if they ever are able to generate any traffic.
Maybe its time to check on some of Yahoo!Auctions' featured sellers and see just how well they're doing.
Isn't it amazing how the "financial press" follows the spin-doctoring without question?
posted on January 23, 2001 11:37:56 AM new
DUH! doesn't anyone think that $0.20 is cheap for a ten day Advertisment of any kind. The 'Advertisers' are the ones that will stay
posted on January 23, 2001 11:46:44 AM new
jimnhow,
Twenty cents is a cheap advertisement only if there's traffic to see it.
I have 19 items listed on their first re-list, many of which have just one or two pageviews, so if its not cost-effective for real sellers, its certainly not cost-effective for spammers.
posted on January 23, 2001 11:58:00 AM new
Regarding the Advertisers staying - IF Yahoo continues to enforce no outside links, that is links to personal web sites and such, there is little use for an advertiser to use Yahoo - this link thing is a pain in the derrière and I am not an advertiser, but I sure liked having my web site posted on my auctions.
The "featured sellers" in this thread http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=6&thread=14947 have links to their websites on their listings and/or booth. One even has a link to off-site auctions they are themselves conducting away from Yahoo!Auctions.
posted on January 23, 2001 12:51:29 PM new
Hi guys:
<i>Unfortunately, what the Motley Fools don't seem to understand is that the worst is yet to come. I see the listings falling off by at least another 50% - 75% of what they are now.</i>
I'm the one who wrote the story... and I did not indicate the count has bottomed.
<i>Of course some listings were advertisements, but that has nothing to do with listing fees.</i>
I disagree. I think the listing fees will filter out a lot of the non-auction junk. Sure, some will remain, but I think it will by and large clean up the site.
<i>eBay has had listing fees from the getgo and they have them, Yahoo!Auctions now has listing fees and they too will have them if they ever are able to generate any traffic.</i>
Yes, but not as many, IMHO.
<i>Isn't it amazing how the "financial press" follows the spin-doctoring without question?</i>
Ahhh, not really. I questioned her plenty. But I view as plausible her assertion that a better signal-to-noise ratio means the site will be more enjoyable and easier to use, and buyers may be better able to find items they're looking for.
But I made it clear that I don't think they have a shot at taking anything from eBay.
posted on January 23, 2001 01:17:13 PM new
orangeblood >
<i>Of course some listings were advertisements, but that has nothing to do with listing fees.</i>
I disagree. I think the listing fees will filter out a lot of the non-auction junk. Sure, some will remain, but I think it will by and large clean up the site.
You sited your search of "MP3 PLAYER" and found no advertisements; how many advertisements did you find with the same search prior to Yahoo!Auctions implementing listing fees?
Did you know that United States > Coins and United States > Stamps had a combined 77,280 listings on January 10, and now down to 31,377 listings on January 23, for a 59% loss.
Or that Computers > Hardware > PC and Computers > Software > Pc had a combined 34,134 listings on January 10, and now down to 16,499 listings on January 23, for a 52% loss.
Or that Movies > DVD and Movies > Video Tapes has 55,877 listings on January 10, and now down to 27,133 listings on January 23, for a 51% loss.
Etc., etc., etc.
Do you really believe that the one-half of listings now gone from Yahoo!Auctions represented "junk" and "advertisements"?
<i>eBay has had listing fees from the getgo and they have them, Yahoo!Auctions now has listing fees and they too will have them if they ever are able to generate any traffic.</i>
Yes, but not as many, IMHO.
And what keyword search did you use at both auction sites to reach that conclusion?
<i>Isn't it amazing how the "financial press" follows the spin-doctoring without question?</i>
Ahhh, not really. I questioned her plenty. But I view as plausible her assertion that a better signal-to-noise ratio means the site will be more enjoyable and easier to use, and buyers may be better able to find items they're looking for.
>But I made it clear that I don't think they have a shot at taking anything from eBay.
Yahoo!Auctions was a site best characterised as a few pageviews, fewer bidders and even fewer buyers wasteland prior to implementing the listing fees, and then loses one-half its listings in just two weeks and with the likelihood of losing substantially more in the next two weeks, may become even more of a wasteland.
posted on January 23, 2001 02:02:01 PM new
Hi dimview,
>>>You sited your search of "MP3 PLAYER" and found no advertisements; how many advertisements did you find with the same search prior to Yahoo!Auctions implementing listing fees?<<<
I didn't say I found no ads... though the listings I clicked through yesterday had none. And like I said in my story, when I searched before, I ran across dozens of ads... things not even related to MP3s.
>>>>Do you really believe that the one-half of listings now gone from Yahoo!Auctions represented "junk" and "advertisements"?<<<<
No, I don't. And never said so.
>>>>And what keyword search did you use at both auction sites to reach that conclusion?<<<<<
MP3, for one. Also, just running through the listings for many categories shows this.
>>>>>Yahoo!Auctions was a site best characterised as a few pageviews, fewer bidders and even fewer buyers wasteland prior to implementing the listing fees, and then loses one-half its listings in just two weeks and with the likelihood of losing substantially more in the next two weeks, may become even more of a wasteland.<<<<<
I agree... it will be extremely interesting to me to see how it all plays out.
posted on January 23, 2001 02:04:48 PM new
RE: "If you drill down and really look at things," she says, "some of the top sellers are here on Yahoo! and are doing quite well."
-================
I think YaFool was talking about me. I have 2000 listings and am doing well with 15 sales a day. Of course I still have 29 days to go before my free listings expire thanks to the 14 day relists from the bulk loader. After that do they think I'm going to pay $6000 a month to sell 15 videos a day? Buh-Bye.
posted on January 23, 2001 02:57:32 PM new
Hey orangeblood,
How many pageviews does Yahoo! have to lose in order for their fees within their auctions become counterproductive?
I would say Yahoo! keeping 250,000 auctions running on a weekly basis would be optimistic at this point (that is a 90% drop from their high level). Assuming a listing fee of 50 cents on average, this would bring in income of around $6.5 million / year (again optimistic).
According to the MediaMetrix numbers, Yahoo! had around 1.5 billion pageviews from their auction site during 2000. Assuming they lose 90% of those pageviews (I would think more because a site with less product is less sticky), they stand to lose 1.2 billion pageviews in 2001.
What value would you place on a page view for Yahoo! and do you think this trade off is really worth it?
posted on January 23, 2001 03:28:33 PM new
less "junk" and "advertisements" ?
Yes, but not as many, IMHO. "
Of course we can expect less of every type of listing with fees in place.
As neither term is defined it is quite unclear what we're talking about.
I believe that those who have an independent venue to "advertise" have more reason to list on yahoo with the fees than those without, therefore can expect an increase in % of such.
"junk" - If taken to mean anything which sells for less than several dollars then of course will have much less. If meaning stuff that is overdue at the landfill - I don't believe there has been that much there. Listing resembling what we call "junk mail"? 20 cents is cheap for such exposure, expect increased %.
I believe that except in the hottest items / categories yahoo! cannot be considered a viable alternative to ebaY for holding a contested auction. For nearly set price sales (i.e. opening or reserve near expected realization), some will still work, but much fewer than before. By being free yahoo in the past has attracted a mass of slow moving listings, this made it fill a different niche with a lot of activity and potential. (Which was severely depressed for the last 3+ monthes by the idiotic "Seller's rewards" initiative.) By adding fees it will become just another ebaY wannabe with little to offer.
posted on January 23, 2001 04:16:06 PM new
I'd like to thank all those who are contributing to this chronicle of Yahoo!Auctions listing decline. There's a high level of confidence in our overall numbers when we each find that roughly one-half of Yahoo!Auctions have vanished.
And, you know, Yahoo!Auctions can talk all they want with the media about how they've improved the "signal-to-noise ratio", but for those who are sellers, what's been made very clear is that Yahoo!Auctions simply viewed sellers as cash cows they could milk.
Mass marketers have no trouble paying for a bulk rate permit and sending "junk mail" advertisements, telemarketers have no trouble paying for a phone line and telephoning households, and spammers have no problem paying for an ISP account and sending millions of spam messages.
So why would anyone believe that someone is not going to then pay twenty or thirty cents to post a spamvertisement on an auction site?
posted on January 23, 2001 04:17:45 PM new
I used to buy some romance on yahoo ( they are down more than 1/2 to approx 6000 listings but what was more amazing to me is that I went to auxpal and they had equal or more listings in this category than yahoo!
posted on January 23, 2001 04:41:48 PM new
Another thing that yahoo is still flooded with is SMC stuff. I see sellers with thousands of listings. They must be using up free credits.
posted on January 23, 2001 05:36:29 PM new
CategoriesTrack:
Antiques, Art, & Collectibles > Miscellaneous > Postcards - 18,406 | 9,373 | 9,262 | 9,233
Antiques, Art, & Collectibles > Miscellaneous > Maps - 473 | 358 | 358 | 356
Coins, Paper Money, & Stamps > Coins > United States - 50,602 | 17,003 | 16,942 | 28,310WRONG
Coins, Paper Money, & Stamps > Stamps > United States - 26,678 | 14,374 | 14,304 | 14,204
Computers > Hardware > PC - 19,667 | 8,104 | 8,117 | 8,125
Computers > Software > PC - 14,467 | 8,365 | 8,372 | 8,301
Entertainment > Books >Antique and Rare - 16,541 | 7,388 | 7,366 | 7,228
Entertainment > Movies > DVD - 13,075 | 6,281 | 6,275 | 6,122
Entertainment > Movies > Video Tapes - 42,802 | 20,852 | 20,802 | 20,708
Entertainment > Music > CDs - 29,964 | 15,285 | 15,258 | 15,276
First number, in bold, is "listing fees day" 10-Jan-2001 10:00 AM ET; second is 23-Jan-2001 at 8:40 AM ET, third is at 1:00 PM ET, fourth is at 8:30 PM ET.
posted on January 23, 2001 06:35:50 PM new
Hi dimview,
>>>>So now I'm really puzzled. Exactly what spamvertisements do you see in MP3 PLAYER at Yahoo!Auctions that isn't also in MP3 PLAYER at eBay?<<<<
I do not know what you're driving at... I never said I found spam on Yahoo that I didn't find on eBay when I checked the listings yesterday. I found real auctions on Yahoo, and more than half the items listed had bids. (I also found some categories that were still greatly lacking in bids.)
When I checked the same MP3 listings a few weeks ago, only a few items had received bids, and there were many listings that had nothing to do with MP3 players. There were duplicate spam listings, sometimes several in a row.
>>>>>And, you know, Yahoo!Auctions can talk all they want with the media about how they've improved the "signal-to-noise ratio", but for those who are sellers, what's been made very clear is that Yahoo!Auctions simply viewed sellers as cash cows they could milk.<<<<<
I've not seen previous discussion on this board. Did you expect them to run a free auction site forever? They started the auctions for the same reason they're now charging people to use it... to make money for their shareholders. If they can't make the auction portion profitable for them, they're going to eventually close it down.
The decline in their main business may have forced them to begin charging earlier than they wanted, though they deny that. At any rate, the stage is set and we now get to see how it will play out.
>>>>So why would anyone believe that someone is not going to then pay twenty or thirty cents to post a spamvertisement on an auction site?<<<<<
Why would someone pay *anything* to list several duplicate spams in a row? When it's free, people will have a tendency to just blast away. When they have to pay, they will be more selective.
>>>>How many pageviews does Yahoo! have to lose in order for their fees within their auctions become counterproductive?.... What value would you place on a page view for Yahoo! and do you think this trade off is really worth it?<<<<
Hi genxmike,
The danger to Yahoo is losing too much traffic to where buyers and sellers alike will just throw up their hands and head over to eBay. For the auction site, I don't think pageviews in and of themselves are the important measure like they are on the rest of the Yahoo site... instead it's the number and variety of items available for buyers, and for sellers, how well their items sell.
I personally just think it's a losing battle for them, because they'll never touch eBay's totals. In my opinion, the question is can its auction site survive as a poor second player, with a small percentage of the total U.S. revenue.
I questioned her plenty. But I view as plausible her assertion that a better signal-to-noise ratio means the site will be more enjoyable and easier to use, and buyers may be better able to find items they're looking for.