posted on January 23, 2001 06:50:35 PM new
orangeblood,
When I checked the same MP3 listings a few weeks ago, only a few items had received bids, and there were many listings that had nothing to do with MP3 players. There were duplicate spam listings, sometimes several in a row.
If you checked "closed auctions" for MP3 PLAYER under ADVANCED SEARCH you will find a total of 158 successfully closed auctions since January 10, and some 1,000 successfully closed auctions in the 90-day history.
posted on January 23, 2001 07:02:50 PM new
Someone ought to send this thread to CNN (Clinton News Network), Wall Street Journal and some of the other story hounds sites. Maybe they can confront YaFools with this data. I'd do it but I gotta go post some items on Auxpal and Ebay so I can have a sale this week. The are soon going to have to change their ditty from "do you Yahoo" to "Did you yahoo"?
posted on January 23, 2001 07:52:21 PM new
Orangeblood, the pageviews are the measure of what Yahoo can charge for advertising (or were...banner ads seem to be a failed platform).
What you and Yahoo and Wall Street missed about Yahoo auctions was it was much more than an auction site. The people who were doing the best were placing classified ads due to the combination of the BUY now price and the free listing fees. Buyers soon tire of the auction for 95% of the stuff offered, so the savy seller would set the minimum bid = to the BUY price creating a classified. That's why you didn't see a lot of bids, because as soon as there was one, the auction was over.
Now with listing fees, the buyers are trying to save on listing fees by starting the auction low, even with the buy price set, so you will see more bids. This creates a buyer's market just like on ePay, and encourages part time sellers who simply list at $9.99 or less and hope for the best. It discourages somebody from trying to make it a "real job." To sell the way that works for me on Yahoo I have to list 2000 items and set the minimum at the buy price. Now, on average I would have to pay $1.00 for each 10 day listing. Experience shows that most items of the thrift store variety need weeks or months to find a buyer here. And yet when they do, both buyer and seller usually fine happiness.
This kind of business can not be run profitably with listing fees. It would cost $6000 a month to list all my 2000 items. You may think I have a lot of junk that never sells, and every time I think the same thing, somebody buys the item I've had listed for 1 year and had given up on. Here's a recent example:
http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48340204
Hardfont SST Cart for HP Printers. 1st Bid Wins
That thing is "new", but also 10 years old. You couldn't sell it anywhere but the old Yahoo because only 5 people on the planet has any use for it.
So go write another article and tell the people how Yahoo turned their back on a niche of their own that they didn't even know they had. That's what the story is about, not about selling new MP3 players which you can get 10,000 other places. Who cares if 250,000 ads for new electronics is what Yahoo is now all about. What's the pitch going to be: Save $1.00 on your $400 MP3 player at Yahoo because the seller doesn't have to pay FV fees? Ho-Hummm
posted on January 23, 2001 08:19:49 PM new
Orangeblood:
Don't the pageviews help generate the advertising revenue that drives the Yahoo! engine? In addition to losing 1.2 billion pageviews, the weakness in the auction site will lead to a percentage of people being less likely to surf Yahoo! as a portal. The effect being that Yahoo! can lose 2, 3 maybe 10 times as many pageviews because they have lost people who once came to their site for auctions and stayed for other services. All of this will affect their bottom line because less eyeballs = less ad revenue. I have my doubts whether the money they manage to make from auction fees will come close to covering their loss due to the self-destruction of their auction site.
In addition, the general feeling in the auction community was that everyone was willing to pay Final Value Fees but not listing fees. Now this would not have solved Yahoo!'s problem of "Junk/Spam" listings, but it would have made Yahoo! some real money! It also would have allowed them to continue to challenge EBAY for dominance in the online auction world. Yahoo! had the opportunity in the hands but they fumbled the ball.
posted on January 23, 2001 11:45:29 PM new
Y'all are trying to reason with another YaWhoBot here, folks.
As orangeblood said himself, he's a Yahoo employee
("This sizeable drop was also observed by Wong (who has a position in both companies, as do I"). He's blinded by the illogical corporate mindset that got Yahoo Auction into this mess in the first place.
Among the things Yahoo decision-makers failed (and STILL fail) to understand is that very, very little of ANY kind of merchandise sells quickly on Yahoo with its limited traffic and even more limited bidding activity.
GETTING RID OF SPAM ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE THAT FACT, and the powers-to-be at Yahoo are fools if they REALLY DO think it will. Much of what we HAVE been selling has been UNDERPRICED to get someone to bid on it. And the only reason we could AFFORD to underprice it was because we weren't paying steep listing fees to Yahoo.
If Yahoo sellers felt confident (from past experience on the Auction) that something they list would sell
in just one listing, they would PAY the fees Yahoo has proposed and continue to list.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
Yahoo bidding was FAR too sparse for listing fees this high, and bidding's not going to *magically* increase five or ten-fold with the advent of fees and "elimination of spam and junk".
WE DIDN'T FAIL TO GET BIDS BECAUSE OF SPAM CLUTTER.
You guys at Yahoo haven't bothered to analyze your own Auction data AT ALL, have you???
You're not going to just get rid of some of the spam, you're going to get rid of ALL YOUR MARKETABLE MERCHANDISE, too. Your former sellers will either go pay eBay to sell it quickly, or they'll put it on one of the FREE auctions that are chomping-at-the-bit to replace you at #2. Then the little bit of bidding you HAD will be gone, along with all your listings.
So you go tell all this to your employer, orangeblood. You haven't listened to ONE WORD we've been saying to you, YaWhoFools, and you're going to be the laughing stock of the industry by April Fool's Day.
posted on January 24, 2001 12:40:52 AM new
Another problem with the yahoovian logic: in some of the categories I had posted in, the mass marketers were paying high fees for their high priced junk to be featured. Why would a (comparatively)small fee stop them?
posted on January 24, 2001 01:06:28 AM newgranee said:
Y'all are trying to reason with another YaWhoBot here, folks. As orangeblood said himself, he's a Yahoo employee ("This sizeable drop was also observed by Wong (who has a position in both companies, as do I". He's blinded by the illogical corporate mindset that got Yahoo Auction into this mess in the first place.
Gee, granee, how many people are you going to falsely accuse of being a Yahoo! employee on AW? I guess anybody who doesn't agree with you 100% about this issue is a Yahoo! employee...RIGHT?
Unless I completely misunderstood, position here means that they have a stake in both Yahoo! and eBay stock, not that they are employees of the companies.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, though!
And, if I AM wrong, I "must be one of those "wet behind the ears" MBA kids working at Yahoo!", according to you!
...so I have an excuse! Youth and inexperience!
What's yours, granee?
granee,, your totally inaccurate conclusions and less than rational rantings regarding this whole issue leads me to believe you should think about taking a position on the web-site where this article appeared! What was its name? FOOL.com?
George
[ edited by gawooley on Jan 24, 2001 02:11 AM ]
posted on January 24, 2001 02:10:49 AM new
Wow, some of the Yahoo sellers here are feisty.
It seems like some take the listing fees personally but Yahoo's decision to have listing fees isn't betrayal, it's just capitalism. Besides generating some revenue from listing fees they're blowing out the listings of items that have little probability of selling and just don't move. Sorry if you fall into that category of seller, but why would Yahoo want to carry those items? When you browse through the listings you would have to wade through more items with a lower chance of landing on the item that you want. Even as good as Ebay is, you still have to wade through a lot of listings before you find one that you would bid on.
By reading this thread it's easy to come to the conclusion that the sellers who account for the bulk of the volume on Yahoo feel as negatively. Yet, we're now beyond January 20th, which is the last day a free listing can exist on Yahoo, and tonight there are 1.12 million items that people have paid money to list. The item counts are still dropping but the rate of drop is decelerating. I'm not sure when it'll bottom.
I believe it's likely that the million items that Yahoo's lost are mainly those which didn't move. Of the million that remains, just quasi-intuitively, about half of those are items that have high success rates (like digital cameras, some computer equipment, etc.) and the other half have some chance (but lower) of selling but sellers are still testing the waters to see if listing on Yahoo is still worth the small fee.
As far as page views are concerned, since only the "junk" listings have been blown out the rate of page views by buyers might not change, and might even increase some in the future since the site could be more appealing. Certainly, having to page through 50% less could result in fewer category listings viewed but it will free up time for buyers to explore other categories. The time spent is not inconsiderable, especially given that most people use modems. And hunting through auctions is very time consuming.
About the Mp3 player listings, just because a 1000 closed during the prior 90 day period doesn't mean that the success rate was high during the 3 months before the listing fee went into effect. Depending on the level of "junk" listings, bidding might have appeared sparse. It certainly doesn't look sparse now.
The article by Motley Fool (OrangeBlood) is balanced and solid reporting. Do you find the articles that commonly give weight to the few vocal irate sellers balanced? Or are those writers just trying to grab attention by being sensationalistic. For example, Ebay reworks its auto site last Spring. Articles report outraged sellers complaining on boards. Yet, the number of cars listed increased since the rollout.
Finally, OrangeBlood is not an employee of Yahoo ("position" in Yahoo).
Well, if you feel the need to pummel me, please be merciful : )
posted on January 24, 2001 03:29:34 AM new
Thanks dimview.
I have also notice from the 3 sites I was condsidering to list actionaddict, pootah, and auxpal. Auxpal has really increased its listings in 2 weeks and you can import an image.
posted on January 24, 2001 03:36:48 AM new
In reply to John10101
<we're now beyond January 20th, which is the last day a free listing can exist on Yahoo, and tonight there are 1.12 million items that people have paid money to list.>
There are still three weeks until all the free relists cycle through completely, one list and two re-lists so it will be mid-February before all the free listings are gone. Also, a lot of seller's are only going to stick around until there money from their feedback is around.
<since only the "junk" listings have been blown out the rate of page views by buyers might not change, and might even increase some in the future since the site could be more appealing.>
As an example, I would not consider the coins category junk yet it has already dropped by over 80% with more to come. I have been buying and selling in that category for over a year and I can tell you I actually see more junk mail now than I did before.
Fees will not stop people selling junk mail for the exact opposite of the reason you think it will. With less listings they will receive more exposure. There are three sellers on Yahoo right now running one day auctions (actually I think one with three ID's) for airline tickets - 143 at a time, probably one or two in each category to tip toe around the neighborhood watch. This seller is paying the listing fees and featuring all of his auctions every day.
<I believe it's likely that the million items that Yahoo's lost are mainly those which didn't move.>
along with any collectible, coin, baseball card etc... under about $5 and a lot above that as well.
Junk mail and junk listings are a part of life that will always be there.
[ edited by mcelhinn001 on Jan 24, 2001 03:40 AM ]
posted on January 24, 2001 06:38:40 AM new
John10101 >
The article by Motley Fool (OrangeBlood) is balanced and solid reporting.
Don't be Motley Fooled. That the writer of the article disclosed they hold a position in YHOO stock clearly indicates a BULLISH judgement on the company and its prospects. And that does not lead down the path to "balanced and solid reporting."
posted on January 24, 2001 07:37:52 AM new
Every item I ever put on Yahoo has sold eventually. The right buyer has to come by. They are not junk items but rather are collectibles or small decorative prints. Thus, the don't appeal to all people shopping around. The owners who finally won them were delighted. Consider, they may never have found their item or might never have been able to afford it if listing fees have to be figured in each time while it waits for its special buyer. To date I've been able to post them and leave them. Obviously, if I'm seeking $.25 for a baseball card, I can't stand the listing fee or the re-listing fee. That special collectible can no longer be offered on Yahoo. It has to find a postiing home elsewhere. The person looking for the relative obscure card of his favorite player now has no hope of finding it on yahoo. He's gone hunting elsewhere. Once, he could hunt through Yahoo for his favorite and perhaps find another more popular player cared cheaper and buy that too. Now he will no longer be surfing through cards at YaFool. They essentially ran all the dealers aways expect for the higher price dealers and items. It's a sad day in Auctionville.
posted on January 24, 2001 07:46:11 AM new
mcelhinn001 <There are still three weeks until all the free relists cycle through completely, one list and two re-lists so it will be mid-February before all the free listings are gone. Also, a lot of seller's are only going to stick around until there money from their feedback is around.>
mcelhinn001,
Aha! I see that was in the Yahoo 4/5th chat -- I must have misunderstood it. Originally, I expected Yahoo auctions to drop to 500,000, which is more consistent with their true level of sales. I was trying to account for the loss of 50% of the items when I expected a 75% loss.
<Fees will not stop people selling junk mail for the exact opposite of the reason you think it will.>
That's true, but the fees should discourage a high percentage of those who would have listed something that had zero chance of selling. If it eliminates 90% of it, it will have served its purpose.
posted on January 24, 2001 07:51:43 AM new
dimview - <i>Don't be Motley Fooled. That the writer of the article disclosed they hold a position in YHOO stock clearly indicates a BULLISH judgement on the company and its prospects. And that does not lead down the path to "balanced and solid reporting."
(who has a position in both companies, as do I)</i>
dimview,
It's true, he does have a position in Yahoo, as I do also. I'm in cahoots with them, though just as a shareholder and not as an employee or any type of affiliate (or of Yahoo for that matter).
[duplicate copy 'n pasted deleted. Love that edit feature on this board!]
John
[ edited by John10101 on Jan 24, 2001 07:55 AM ]
posted on January 24, 2001 08:10:37 AM new
For any of the more active Yahoo sellers, here's a question for you and I would appreciate opinions on this. There are actually some hot categories on Yahoo. Have any careful side-by-side comparisons been done? Have you run simultaneous auctions on both Yahoo and Ebay to see if Yahoo actually delivered prices at least equal (equal minus Ebay's listing/success fees) to the bids on Ebay?
I've always wondered why there are active sellers on Yahoo, why these "power sellers" would even stay. Ultimately, the question is if they'll stay. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
posted on January 24, 2001 08:11:54 AM newjohn10101 said:
"It's true, he does have a position in Yahoo, as I do also"
Aw, John, NOW you've went and done it!
Get ready for another "rant" from granee!
John, how much is Yahoo! paying you? I'm unable to find MY paycheck from them. But I sure wish they'd send it! I think those MBA's make pretty good money!
George
...hoping that AW watchers know sarcasm when they see it...
[ edited by gawooley on Jan 24, 2001 08:13 AM ]
posted on January 24, 2001 12:24:03 PM new
If eBay were burning, now that would be Rome! This is just kinda like one of the little Rome-wanna-be settlements burning...
. He's blinded by the illogical corporate mindset that got Yahoo Auction into this mess in the first place.