posted on December 19, 2002 10:26:38 AM new
It's in the news - hundreds of Islamic people who dutifully reported for registration have been arrested and are being held incommunicado in Southern California.
posted on December 19, 2002 10:37:20 AM new
Southern California arresting people only because of their religion, or cultural background. Real funny.
Why don't you go talk to Jill and ask her why she wrote the article the way she did.
Then go ask the cops what they think and who told them to arrest the Islamics.
And then go ask the Muslims what their agenda is, whether they work 40 hours a week
and pay taxes or if they're only here cause they know their country sucks.
And then you can figure out what your agenda is by posting that article and making those inferences and conclusions.
Before you start making grand sweeping
generalizations maybe you should check all your facts.
posted on December 19, 2002 10:46:14 AM newINS spokesman Arcaute said those arrested had violated immigration laws, overstayed their visas, or were wanted for crimes. The others just registered and went home.
posted on December 19, 2002 11:30:56 AM new"Terrorists most likely wouldn't come to the INS to register. It is really a bad way to go about it. They are being treated as criminals and that really goes against American ideals of fairness, and justice and democracy," Khan said.
I believe that some of us here in the RT predicted this a year and a half ago. We also predict that the abuses will become worse; not just against those of middle-eastern descent or islamic, but it will also expand to Americans in the coming months. I personally believe that the next target group will be Black Islamic Americans; you know, black Americans who have converted to Islam.
That being said, what they have done here with these people went too far. It would easily have been a matter of photographing them, fingerprinting them, taking down their personal living information, etc. from a list of questions and then let them go.
Instead, they were betrayed.
In the future, I doubt that we'll be seeing too much cooperation between those of middle-eastern descent and the US Government. When next the government comes to them with open hands, begging for translators and such, I doubt very much that anyone will want to be of help. Such is the price of betrayal.
posted on December 19, 2002 11:52:23 AM new
These people knowingly violated our laws. No doubt most were hoping that by presenting themselves and their expired visas, that the INS would be considerate enough to allow them to remain free on their "own recognizance". And pre-9/11, that is precisely what would have happened. Many of these people have been here for years ILLEGALLY, never bothering to submit the paperwork that would have allowed them to remain in this country legally. Many have married, had children, taken jobs. Very unfortunate, but they are responsible for their own predicaments, knowing the requirements for legal residence when they originally entered this country.
posted on December 19, 2002 11:54:03 AM new
And they're not being held "incommunicado". They have immigration lawyers, and good many of whom accompanied their clients to register in the first place.
posted on December 19, 2002 11:57:48 AM new
I know we need to look at the individual
within society, look at the individual psychologically, and all that good stuff.
I know lots of people who never break any laws. Where they come from, I don't know.
posted on December 19, 2002 12:23:48 PM new
This week alone:
Customs Service Agents in the Detroit area, arrested 6 men and searched 10 businesses and residents in an investigation into an Islamic "hawala" [money exchange]. Authorities say they illegally funneled as much as $50 million dollars a year to Yemen.
In the Buffalo area a civic leader and 2 relatives where charged with sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to Yemen.
Four brothers were arrested in Dallas - for funneling money to a leader of the Islamic militant group Hamas. Charges were filed against a 5th brother. the brothers company and a Hamas leader oversears and his wife.
Two weeks ago Fed's in the Boston area raided a computer company suspected of ties to A-Q.
I'm glad we appear to be making progress at shutting down the supply of money they're sending to support those who wish to destroy our country.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 19, 2002 12:25 PM ]
"In most cases, it is apparent that the INS arrested men who were simply waiting for approval of their green card applications, or those with minor visa problems caused by incompetence in the agency itself, which has been plagued by an inept bureaucracy for years. In but one example, the San Diego Union Tribune reported on July 27, 2002 that the agency recently failed to process more than 200,000 change of address forms and then unceremoniously dumped them in the largest underground records facility in the world – an abandoned mine near Kansas City – putting hundreds of thousands at risk of wrongful arrest and deportation for failing to report a change of address."
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on December 19, 2002 12:28:58 PM new
>These people knowingly violated our laws.
Yes. Let's also go after the Engligh, Germans, and French nationals who have also done the same things and broken the same laws. That way, we can call it The Rule of Law instead of RACIST POLICIES OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
posted on December 19, 2002 12:31:19 PM new
>I'm glad we appear to be making progress at shutting down the supply of money they're sending to support those who wish to destroy our country.
I'm all for that as well. Those actively and knowingly engaged in creating threats to our country need to be caught.
Unfortunately, none of these people went down to the INS to comply with the new order. The innocents that did got a barbed-wire enema - courtesy of the US Government!
posted on December 19, 2002 12:33:26 PM new
>" the agency recently failed to process more than 200,000 change of address forms and then unceremoniously dumped them in the largest underground records facility in the world – an abandoned mine near Kansas City – putting hundreds of thousands at risk of wrongful arrest and deportation for failing to report a change of address."
posted on December 19, 2002 01:04:31 PM new
I am all for finding & deporting those in our country illegally.
However, a few things bother me about this action: the fact that it was aimed only at Middle-Easterners; the fact that many of the detainees are *not* here illegally; the fact that no info on names or numbers of arrestees are being released; the fact that INS refuses to state what the specific charges are; the conditions they are being held in. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-register19dec19004434,0,30991.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dcalifornia
Sorry, but it all smacks too much of what what was done to Japanese-AMericans during World War II. One would think we'd learned our lesson on that, but it appears not. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 19, 2002 01:08:58 PM new
mlecher - Have any English, French or German immigrants been rounded up??? They also "violate immigration laws, overstay their visas, and are wanted for crimes.
The reason, which should be obvious, is the English, French, German, etc immigrants haven't been the group that has been threatening us. They haven't killed close to 3000 of our citizens either.
While our INS has certainly had more than it's share of problems, I can only imagine the overload they're dealing with since 9-11. I don't see this as discrimination, but rather dealing with the most pressing/urgent problems first.
posted on December 19, 2002 01:15:17 PM new
Bunni - I can understand some of your concerns...they are shared by many [as you well know].
...the fact that many of the detainees are *not* here illegally
It was my understanding, from what I read early last night, that those who were here legally were released immediately. In one article I read it said a group of 6 [friends/relatives] had gone down to register and 5 were kept as their papers weren't in order, the one who's papers were in order wasn't held. Just went through the registration process and left.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 19, 2002 01:18 PM ]
posted on December 19, 2002 01:21:51 PM new
The article (& the one I cited) also said that many of those "irregularities" in paperwork weren't the fault of the person involved, but rather that of *our* government bureaucrats.
I have friend, born in England, who had exactly the same kind of problems--her paperwork was "lost," it was held up, etc. etc. etc. She was jerked around for almost 2 years before everything finally got done. Perhaps she should have been arrested & held, also? After all, *her* papers expired at a couple of points, too... Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 19, 2002 01:36:02 PM new
A busy day here. That's good!
The article is reasonably objective; the journalist presents both sides of the situation. The government's new totalitarian policy to protect the citizens from relevant information about issues, replacing reasoned explanations with a few broad, sweeping generalizations, seems to remain in tact, but that is no fault of the reporter who seems to be one of a decreasing number who stills upholds a belief in the right of the people to receive balance in reporting. The arrests are most likely an over-reaction by the Bush administration to attempt to counter some of the criticism that it has abandoned its pursuit of bin Laden and terrorists in the quest for wealth and empire through the Iraqi gateway. After all, any incident involving Muslims must be related to terrorists and therefore any behavior on the part of the government is not only justified but laudable. Trent Lott may soon be aspiring to a new career in Homeland Defense. The blacks have certainly earned a little respite, but if the Party is to retain the redneck fundamentalist backing some minority has to suffer in order to enhance their egos and with the Muslims fewer votes are at risk. It would be nice though, much more in keeping with a benevolent dictatorship, if the focus of persecution could be rotated every few years.
I'm delighted to see that my contributions to the ACLU are worthwhile. This is one of many issues lately in which they have been able to at least raise public awareness of all the facts surrounding overly zealous government actions and it's still difficult for the press to ignore them to the extent that they do the protests.
posted on December 19, 2002 01:40:47 PM new"I'm glad we appear to be making progress at shutting down the supply of money they're sending to support those who wish to destroy our country".
Duh! Get your furriners straight, cracker - these weren't Mexicans supporting families back home. The people who "wish to destroy our country" don't need money from here as they've got billions of Saudi oil money.
posted on December 19, 2002 01:45:20 PM new"The arrests are most likely an over-reaction by the Bush administration to attempt to counter some of the criticism that it has abandoned its pursuit of bin Laden and terrorists in the quest for wealth and empire through the Iraqi gateway. After all, any incident involving Muslims must be related to terrorists and therefore any behavior on the part of the government is not only justified but laudable."
posted on December 19, 2002 02:11:36 PM new
Bunni - ...also said that many of those "irregularities" in paperwork weren't the fault of the person involved, but rather that of *our* government bureaucrats. I have no doubt that will turn out to be true in some cases, and in time those will be cleared up.
I also believe that these young men knew they were required to come register and also knew their papers weren't in order. Some of these people have been here for many years.
posted on December 19, 2002 02:46:20 PM new
>but if the Party is to retain the redneck fundamentalist
Just a single side-note here. By the original use of the slang label "redneck", it referred to common laborers who worked outdoors. The backs of their necks would be exposed to the sunshine all day long and their necks would be red; hence the nickname, Rednecks.
I dislike the fact that the redneck label has been misappropriated to indicate a hateful group of ignorant bigots. It wasn't always so.
