posted on December 21, 2002 12:08:50 AM new
While there is very little information contained in mainstream American media about the continuing U.S. military presence in Afganistan many sources around the world are reporting that large numbers of casualties are occuring there.
posted on December 21, 2002 12:55:24 AM new
This War is censored for public consumption. It is unwise to let the American people know that many of our soldiers are dying in combat as they do not have the stomach for the deaths. Although the numbers could eventually be as high as those that we lost in Viet-nam, we will loose this War if the American people are not behind it. So we must censor what information comes in or out of the battlefields, lest support for our War efforts fade. We cannot continue in the face of opposition from the American people, so let us hide what is going on from them. That way, the American people can feel safe and comfortable and go about their business Christmas shopping unfettered by notions of blood and gore from those dearly departed from battle in distant lands. Why should we loose that good cheer and ringing of bells for Santa than for the dead -- it's much less disturbing for the masses and it really does not need their consent to prosecute this War anyhow. The media is controlled and access to the information is limited and they have nothing to report. Nothing of substance. These are the thoughts of those in charge and our lives are much simpler without knowing, so why bother?
posted on December 21, 2002 05:59:29 AM new
Casualties are Censored and the battle is sanitized with propanganda...
The International Security Assistance Force has deployed 4,800 troops to bring security to the capital of Afghanistan.
Eight thousand US troops will remain in Afghanistan.
"Despite the incidents, U.S. Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers said the situation continues to get better over here.
On what does he base that statement, I wonder? And war casualties are "incidents" now?
Helen
A "peacekeeping" helicopter crashed today killing 4 adults and 2 children. The first US soldier was killed in Afghanistan in a nightime operation. Two other US soldiers were injured in separate incidents and an American base came under rocket fire..."underscoring the continuing danger in Afghanistan" To me, it underscores a failure in the Afganistan war.
posted on December 21, 2002 08:11:54 AM new
If you watch CNN,Watch the scrolling words at the bottom.More news there, then what comes out of the news anchors mouth.
posted on December 22, 2002 05:52:04 AM new
It's great the Islamic press is on top of this stuff. They must be paying off the relatives to keep quiet too.
posted on December 22, 2002 11:26:03 AM new
Some current mainstream headlines. It took only one Keyword in a search engine to find these and many, many more. Good Grief! It doesn't need a rocket scientist to come up with mainstream reports, just the effort to move one's finger's a few keystrokes.
posted on December 22, 2002 12:31:38 PM newIt's great the Islamic press is on top of this stuff. They must be paying off the relatives to keep quiet too. If this weren't so sad, it'd be funny.
In the four URLs posted it looks like maybe a total of two to three US soldiers have been killed serving their country. Any US soldier's death is a tragedy, but this hardly makes for a 'bloodbath'.
Army Sgt. 1st Class Christopher James Speer, 28, of Albuquerque, N.M.
Speer was one of five U.S. soldiers injured in a July 27 ambush while hunting for al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in eastern Afghanistan. He was moved shortly after to a hospital in Germany, where he died Aug. 12. Speer was based at U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, N.C.
Air Force Tech. Sgt. Sean M. Corlew, 37, of Thousand Oaks, Calif.
(AP Photo)
A member of the Air Force's 16th Special Operations Wing at Hurlburt Field, Fla., Corlew was one of three troops killed June 12 when their Air Force MC130-H crashed near an airstrip in the Gardez region of Afghanistan.
Air Force Staff Sgt. Anissa A. Shero, 31, of Grafton, W.Va.
Shero, of the Air Force's 16th Special Operations Wing, was killed June 12 when an Air Force MC130-H crashed near an airstrip in the Gardez region of Afghanistan.
Army Sgt. 1st Class Peter P. Tycz II, 32, of Tonawanda, N.Y.
Tycz, assigned to the Army's 3rd Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C., was killed in the June 12 crash of an Air Force MC130-H near an airstrip in the Gardez region of Afghanistan.
Sgt. Gene Arden Vance Jr., 38, of West Virginia
Gene Arden Vance, a U.S. Special Forces sergeant, was fatally wounded when his unit came under heavy fire while on patrol in eastern Afghanistan on May 19, and died while waiting to be evacuated. The 38-year-old soldier from Morgantown, W. Va., was recently married and had canceled his honeymoon plans when he was called up to serve in Afghanistan with the 19th Special Forces Unit. He is survived by his wife Lisa and a daughter.
Staff Sgt. Brian Craig, 27, of Texas
Craig was one of four soldiers killed April 15 in an explosion in Afghanistan. Craig and the other victims were killed when old Chinese-made rockets they were attempting to dismantle exploded. Craig was a member of the 710th Explosive Ordnance Detachment based in San Diego.
Staff Sgt. Justin Galewski, 28, of Kansas
Galewski was killed in Afghanistan April 15 when rockets he was attempting to dismantle exploded. He was a member of the 710th Explosive Ordnance Detachment based in San Diego.
Sgt. Jamie Maugans, 27, of Kansas
Maugans was killed April 15 in Afghanistan when rockets he was attempting to dismantle exploded. He was a member of the 710th Explosive Ordnance Detachment based in San Diego.
Sgt. 1st Class Daniel Romero, 30, of Colorado
Romero, of the Colorado Army National Guard, was killed April 15 in Afghanistan when rockets he was attempting to dismantle exploded. He was a member of the 19th Special Forces Group based in Pueblo, Colo. He is survived by his wife and parents.
Chief Petty Officer Matthew J. Bourgeois, 35, of Talahassee, Fla.
Bourgeois, a Navy SEAL, was killed after stepping on and setting off a land mine March 28 during a training mission near the U.S. base at Kandahar airport in Afghanistan, officials said. Another serviceman suffered a non-life-threatening wound.
Sgt. Bradley S. Crose, 27, of Orange Park, Fla.
Crose, a member of the 1st Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, based at Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga., was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. Crose was a tae kwon do master who competed on a national level.
Sgt. Philip J. Svitak, 31, of Joplin, Mo.
Svitak, a flight engineer assigned to 2nd Battalion of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment in Fort Campbell, Ky., was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. His mother recalled him saying, "If they send me over there and anything happens to me, I'm proud to die for my country." Svitak left behind a wife and two sons, ages 2 and 4.
Spc. Marc A. Anderson, 30, of Brandon, Fla.
Anderson, a member of the 1st Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, based at Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga., was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. Anderson left behind a wife and three sons.
Pfc. Matthew A. Commons, 20, of Boulder City, Nev.
Commons, a member of the 1st Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, based at Hunter Army Airfield in Savannah, Ga., was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. His father and grandfather were U.S. Marines.
Tech. Sgt. John A. Chapman, 36, of Waco, Texas.
Chapman was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. Chapman, who received two Air Force commendation medals, left behind a wife and two daughters.
Senior Airman Jason D. Cunningham, 26, of Camarillo, Calif.
Cunningham, a pararescueman and combat medic with the 38th Rescue Squadron, stationed at Moody Air Force Base near Valdosta, Ga., was one of six U.S. troops killed March 4 after their helicopter came under intense fire near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. He left behind a wife and two daughters, ages 2 and 4.
Petty Officer 1st Class Neil C. Roberts, 32, of Woodland, Calif.
Roberts was killed March 4 after falling from his helicopter during fighting near the Afghan town of Gardez, southeast of Kabul. One of 12 children, he also left behind a wife and an 18-month-old son.
Chief Warrant Officer Stanley L. Harriman, 34, of Wade, N.C.
Harriman was killed March 2 in a ground attack shortly after American forces, joined by Afghan and other allied troops, began an offensive against al Qaeda fighters near the town of Gardez. The father of two children, Harriman was assigned to the 3rd Special Forces Group at Fort Bragg, N.C.
One of two crew members aboard a U.S. Navy F-14 fighter jet was killed March 2 when the jet crashed in the Mediterranean Sea as it took off from the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy. The soldier's name was not immediately released.
Staff Sgt. Walter F. Cohee III, 26, of Wicomico, Md.
Cohee joined the Marine Corps Aug. 3, 1993, and was a communications navigations systems technician. Cohee died Jan. 20 aboard a CH-53E helicopter that crashed south of Kabul, Afghanistan.
Sgt. Dwight J. Morgan, 24, of Mendocino, Calif.
Morgan joined the Marine Corps August 15, 1998 and was a helicopter mechanic. Morgan died Jan. 20 aboard a CH-53E helicopter that crashed south of Kabul, Afghanistan.
Capt. Matthew W. Bancroft, 29, of Shasta, Calif.
The command pilot of the KC-130 plane that crashed in Pakistan on Jan. 9, Bancroft had been a Marine since 1994. His parents said he was seven years old when he decided he wanted to be a pilot.
Capt. Daniel G. McCollum, 29, of Richland, S.C.
McCollum joined the Marines in 1993 and was the co-pilot of the KC-130 that crashed on Jan. 9.
Gunnery Sgt. Stephen L. Bryson, 35, of Montgomery, Ala.
Bryson had just called his mother on Jan. 8, his birthday, to tell his mother he was thinking about her one day before he was killed along with six other Marines when their KC-130 crashed. He joined the Marines straight out of high school in 1983.
Staff Sgt. Scott N. Germosen, 37, of Queens, N.Y.
A 19-year-veteran of the Marines, Germosen was the loadmaster on the KC-130 that crashed Jan. 9 in Pakistan.
Sgt. Nathan P. Hayes, 21, of Lincoln, Wash.
(Reuters)
In his hometown of Wilbur, Wash., Hayes was remembered as a football player who worked harder than many of the others on his high school team, even if he did not have as much talent as some athletes. He joined the Marines in 1999 and was the flight mechanic on the KC-130 that crashed Jan. 9 in Pakistan.
Lance Cpl. Bryan P. Bertrand, 23, of Coos Bay, Ore.
Bertrand could have been home a month ago, but volunteered for another tour of duty as flight navigator. He recently wrote his parents that he had saved enough money to buy an electric guitar. He was among the seven who died on the KC-130 that crashed on Jan. 9 in Pakistan.
Sgt. Jeannette L. Winters, 25, of Du Page, Ill
A radio operator who joined the Marines in 1997, she was the first U.S. servicewoman to die since the U.S.-led Afghan bombing began in early October. She was on the KC-130 that crashed on Jan. 9. Her high school track coach remembered her as someone who gave everything she had, even if she was in physical pain, for her team.
Sgt. 1st Class Nathan Ross Chapman, 31, of San Antonio, Texas
Chapman was killed Jan. 4 by hostile, small arms fire in eastern Afghanistan, near the city of Khost. Chapman, a special forces soldier who has spent more than 12 years in the military, was the first U.S. combatant killed by enemy fire.
Sgt. 1st Class Daniel Petithory, 32, of Cheshire, Mass.
One of three special forces soldiers killed Dec. 5 when a U.S. bomb missed its Taliban target north of Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. He was a member of the Army's 3rd Battalion, 5th Special Forces Group, stationed at Fort Campbell, Ky. His brother described him as a practical joker who had always wanted to join the Army.
Staff Sgt. Brian Cody Prosser, 28, of Fraizer Park, Calif.
Prosser died with Petithory and a third soldier on Dec. 5 when a U.S. bomb missed its Taliban target north of Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. They were all members of the Army's 3rd Battalion, 5th Special Forces Group, stationed at Fort Campbell, Ky.
Master Sgt. Jefferson Donald Davis, 39, of Watauga, Tenn.
Davis was killed with Prosser and Petithory on Dec. 5 when a U.S. bomb missed its Taliban target north of Kandahar in Afghanistan. He was a Green Beret and former high school athlete who leaves behind a wife and three children in Clarksville, Ky.
Navy Fireman Apprentice Michael J. Jakes Jr., 20, of New York City
Jakes died Dec. 4 of head injuries sustained in a fall from his bunk on the carrier USS Kitty Hawk in the Arabian Sea.
Pvt. Giovanny Maria, 19, of Camden, N.J.
Maria, a 10th Mountain Division soldier, died on Nov. 29 in Uzbekistan from a gunshot wound unrelated to enemy action, according to U.S. officials. The death is currently under investigation.
CIA officer Johnny "Mike" Spann, 32, of Winfield, Ala.
Spann, a former Marine from a small town of 4,500, was questioning Taliban prisoners in a compound near the Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif when they erupted in riot. He was killed on Nov. 25, on the first day of the three-day riot, making him the first American to be killed in combat in Afghanistan. U.S. officials say he died of a gunshot wound and was not tortured.
Petty Officer 1st Class Vincent Parker of Preston, Miss.
Parker, 38, was lost at sea Nov. 18 when the suspicious vessel his security team had boarded sank. Parker joined the Navy after graduating from high school, and was supposed to be on his last tour of duty before his retirement from the military. He had been serving aboard the USS Peterson.
Petty Officer 3rd Class Benjamin Johnson of Rochester, N.Y.
Johnson drowned Nov. 18 when a suspicious vessel his security team boarded in the Persian Gulf sank. The 21-year-old had been serving aboard the USS Peterson.
Machinist's Mate Fireman Apprentice Bryant L. Davis, 20, of Chicago
Fell overboard into the Arabian Sea from the USS Kitty Hawk on Nov. 7, and declared dead by the Defense Department on Nov. 10.
Pvt. 1st Class Kristofor T. Stonesifer, 28, of Missoula, Mont.
Stonesifer grew up in Pennsylvania and went on to attend the ROTC program at the University of Montana. An instructor there recalls that Stonesifer left the program early with a desire to become one of the best soldiers in the U.S. Army. He died Oct. 19 when his Black Hawk helicopter crashed upon attempting to land in Pakistan.
Spc. Jonn J. Edmunds, 20, of Cheyenne, Wyo.
Edmunds, who died Oct. 19 with Stonesifer in the helicopter accident in Pakistan, was planning to make a career out of the military, according to friends and family. "He was just a happy-go-lucky guy," said John Steichen, the father of a close friend of Edmunds. Steichen told The Associated Press that Edmunds wanted to be a Ranger and "wanted to be where the action was."
Air Force Master Sgt. Evander Andrews, 36, of Solon, Maine
He died Oct. 10 in a forklift accident while he was helping construct an airstrip in Qatar. Friends and colleagues described Andrews as an ace mechanic and cook. His widow, Judy Andrews, said her husband was devoted to his family and the Air Force.
posted on December 22, 2002 02:12:21 PM newNearly a thousand dead Americans if true....
Helen - I was responding to DeSquirrel's point and the thread topic post by KRS. My understanding of this thread was how American's are being lied to about how many American soldiers have already died in our War efforts in Afghanistan. I don't believe we are.
War is war, there are going to be casualities. War is hell for those in direct combat.
To answer your question Do you know the purpose of that war? Yes, I do Helen. And you've read it every where many times. But since you are anti-any-war, you choose not to hear it or if you do hear it you don't agree. Your right.
Go talk to some of those who are currently serving in our Armed Forces Helen...hear it directly from the mouths of those who are willing to put their lives on the line for our country.
edited to add: And you appear to be worried about the Afghanistian women. Sure their treatment is horrible. We didn't go over there to liberate their women. And if we had never become involved over there, are you really of the opinion that the woman would have been better off? I don't. Women are treated this way all over the world. Do you think we can 'talk' them into changing their behavior and religious beliefs in regards to their treatment of against their women? I don't.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 22, 2002 02:18 PM ]
You know as well as I do that the war in Afghanistan was a failure. We reduced the poor country from rubble to dust. That's all.
But I'm sure that you will keep on waving your flag in the relative safety of your home while even more innocent people - soldiers, men, women and children die for nothing.
I mentioned the plight of the women because for awhile, when it was clear that bin laden would not be found, we suddenly became liberators. That goal failed also.
Bin Laden is still missing.
We replaced one set of thugs for another.
The country is now prepared for new terrorists training camps.
And the women feel safer in jail.
But for George Bush and his friends, they may have a pipeline.
posted on December 22, 2002 06:43:54 PM new
Linda, like Helen pointed out, those four links were to recent deatrhs from combat in the last two days. The original thread link by KRS spans the sum of deaths over the last year that we've been in Afghanistan. My point is that the reporting is easily verified by mainstream media if you can't ignore the "bloodbath" slant from the islamic reporting as yoiu read the facts. Certainly, American media has it's own slant the other way and we see very little video and news out of Afghanistan concening military oppoprations, unless it's some big shot passing air for the media. That this first year should not have been a "first year", because Bush stated that we would definently not occupy Afghanistan, makes it more vital to realize that our ground forces are sitting targets to Al-Queda, who is returning in droves. That next year at this time, we will wish that the death count was only what it is this year will become very apparent. We will eventually have to leave Afghanistan with our tails tucked between our legs, like we did in Viet-nam. Not because of an unpopular long protracted ground war, but because Bush couldn't be bothered to follow through as he promised over and over again. He lied, he went back on his word, and that doesn't bother you. Swell.
posted on December 24, 2002 08:18:41 AM new
So, like, you get your news from the Jihad Press? Died in a forklift accident, helicopter accident ... fell from his bunk? Not to dismiss the deaths in Afghanistan, but do you have any idea how many Americans died in Oakland or Los Angeles this year?
Merry Christmas, ya' bunch of crazy sociopaths. Bwahaha!
posted on December 24, 2002 12:01:51 PM new
Twinsoft,I got the impression (from the news we got when the troops went into Afghanistan) that most of our few fatalities over there were due to just such accidents. We got news reports of friendly fire deaths, helicopter or jeep crashes, etc. but few about battle casualties--on our side, at least. I remember wondering about this war. I mean, there were so few deaths that they had to tell us about each and every one, giving names & details. I wondered if it could even be called a war...maybe battle would be a better term...or perhaps "skirmish" fit it better. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 24, 2002 03:17:10 PM new
It's deplorable when you can kill 3,500 civilians, destroy their homes, schools, buildings, food and water supplies and call it just a "skirmish".
I suppose from a general's point of view, it was a "piece of cake".
posted on December 24, 2002 11:30:15 PM new
Helen, Ken, those are both good points, but they really have nothing to do with the claim of the number of American servicemen who have died in Afghanistan. That was your point, wasn't it, Ken?
I'm also trying to limit the number to battlefield casualties, not guys who got run over by fork lifts, or died in training exercises, or fell out of their bunks. Not that those deaths aren't tragic, but to characterize them as a "bloodbath" is incorrect.
Maybe I missed something, but it's interesting to note the lack of a thread here about North Korea's nuclear development program. NK is just months away from developing a nuclear weapon, yet there's no discussion of it here. Perhaps because no one has figured out yet how to paint Bush as the villain in this scenario.
posted on December 24, 2002 11:51:03 PM new
Still gnawing on that old bone, twinsoft? It's pretty obvious to me -- and it always was, that the thought of a "bloodbath" in Afghanistan was only to lure users into this thread and to respond. KRS has tried to engage users into conversation with it. After how dull it's been here for the last week, at least you could say is Thank You to him for doing it!
posted on December 24, 2002 11:54:20 PM new
The blame America first committee was probably blindsided by the N. Korea announcement. They'll need a few days to scour the internet to develop the proper spin.
Hint: George Bush and the Republicans paid off the N. Koreans (How could a socialist state want such icky weapons?) to make the announcement so they could boost the terror level and enslave the people.
posted on December 25, 2002 12:19:32 AM newAlthough the numbers could eventually be as high as those that we lost in Viet-nam, we will loose this War if the American people are not behind it. So we must censor what information comes in or out of the battlefields, lest support for our War efforts fade. We cannot continue in the face of opposition from the American people, so let us hide what is going on from them.
One problem is that there is no clear enemy. It's not a war against Afghanistan, it's a war against terrorism. Gee, anybody remember the World Trade Center? That wasn't an isolated incident. Anybody who can look in an unbiased fashion can see that is only the beginning, the tip of the iceberg of what we are facing. Dropping a few bombs on Afghanistan will not stop world terrorism. We put a kink in Bin Laden's plans, but see how easily they pack up and move to Yemen, Kenya ... and those are only the places we "know" about. That's not even mentioning the real action, in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, etc.
Bush put it rightly when he noted that the war on terrorism won't be over in a year, and probably not any time soon. You're right, the American people don't have the stomach for it. Not if it means giving up their SUVs. Or luxury items built by children in third world countries who are paid slave wages. How our culture has changed. We're all for war, but only if we can sit back and watch it in full color on cable CNN.
Military might alone will not end the war on terrorism. To much of the world, we are The Great Satan, and rightly so. Our capitalism that we love so dearly is oppressive to most of the world which looks upon us with resentment and envy. We must begin to assume responsibility for the rest of the world. (Yet we deny our own citizens the right to basic health care.) A global economy and a global democracy is the only solution. Our economic system, which believes that one man should live in a castle, while his neighbor starves, has brought us to where we are today.
No, I haven't gone soft on terrorism. Just noting that our present policy of world oppression can not maintain us.
posted on December 25, 2002 12:42:35 AM new
Borillar, your tactics are laughable. You (by "you" I mean the pseudo-extremist regulars here) are caught in a lie, so of course, you say it was only a joke. That's why thinking people don't take you seriously. Citing sources such as the Jihad Press not only undermines this specific argument, but your entire political stand. Obviously you can't back up what you say, it's just a joke, so why should anyone even bother to debate it? You're not sincere, and when you are disproved, you simply move on to a new lie.
It may help some of you assuage your own irreconcilable guilty by labelling the rest of us as "warmongers" but ultimately in our own hearts we each know the truth. Nobody wishes ill for Afghani women and children, but some of us see the threat of nuclear attack on U.S. soil to be reason enough for preemptive military action.
Yes, there have been American servicemen killed in Afghanistan, but it's safer in Afghanistan than on the streets of Oakland. There is no "bloodbath" unless you get your news from Al-Jazeera television.
posted on December 25, 2002 01:35:44 AM new"We must begin to assume responsibility for the rest of the world. (Yet we deny our own citizens the right to basic health care.) A global economy and a global democracy is the only solution. Our economic system, which believes that one man should live in a castle, while his neighbor starves, has brought us to where we are today"
Unless I'm mistaken, these are direct quotes of Bill Clinton. And I agree.
As to Afganistan, has no one here noticed the format of the title of this thread? Note the question mark. Personally I give an equal rate of credence to news reports from here or there and think that the truth is likely somewhere in between. Alternative sources are subject to the same sorts of requirements of verity as or own beloved ones are supposed to be, so why discount them out of hand? Are WE the only people in the world? Still, what has been accomplished there other than a great deal of ballyhoo by bush? Or what has been accomplished there which could not have been done another way? A death is a death and a forklift accident in that country could not happen to a u.S. serviceman if he is not there. With no clear military objective in that country such a death is as tragic as a battlefield one. (by the way, the streets of Oakland are quite safe so long as you are not a black person anywhere near any drug trafficking activities).
North Korea/Taiwan/China has been my main concern for many months - prior to 9/11 even. I believe that the full capacity to engage the U.S. has been being quietly developed in the region for some time and they are using your money to build it. If it's still possible you can find posts of mine in that vein here somewhere. Right now I'm watching that and not Fox news.
Oh, and I don't care much for discussion in here because of peas in the pod like LindaK and Squirreldroppings.
