posted on February 21, 2001 06:02:30 PM new
In This Issue:
-Spotlight: Seller's Manager tool helps manage your auctions offline.
-Tips for Bidders: Email alerts keep you in touch with your favorite auctions.
-Testimonials: Sellers speak up on the new, improved Yahoo! Auctions.
-On the Network: Yahoo! Website Services wants to host your online business.
-Focus on Coins: Visit Yahoo! Auctions at the Long Beach Coin Expo.
This was just received via email! I copied and pasted and of course, bolded the HAHA! They will never get it! They are the joke of the internet world! ROTFLMAO!
posted on February 21, 2001 06:09:40 PM new
I just clicked onto Yahoo's testimonials. This person actually had listings. Not only that but almost every one had bids. The user id was: marilynn48
I just can't figure it out. Is it because nothing is left? I didn't have this many bids when I had over 1000 items posted and NO it wasn't trash or clutter!
Go Figure!
posted on February 21, 2001 06:47:49 PM new
Did you check out the sellers that were featured in those testimonials in the newsletter? One has a whopping total of 25 feedback, two of which were negative and one neutral (for a net of 20 feedback rating).
And that is the best testimonial Yahoo could come up with? ROTFL!!!!
posted on February 21, 2001 07:14:34 PM new
The first testimonial was this:
"Before listing fees, I was only selling 10-15%...now I am up to 80%... The difference is that sellers have to be smarter and manage their auctions better -- not just bulk load a bunch of stuff onto the site. Now, people can find stuff more easily. I'm glad listings have dropped -- my items are easier to find..."
--Sam
<http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/sgrph1>
----------------------------
This fine chap has 10 items listed, 6 with bids. The problem is all 6 have not met the reserve. He's selling Zip drive products so there should be lots of competition. In the meantime he's paying the listing fee, Featured fee, and Reserve fee. And he has 8 feedbacks in the past 6 months and 3 in the past month. Looks like he's using funny money to me.
Testimonial #2:
"A flood of sellers left Yahoo! Auctions when listing fees were introduced for auction items... In my case, since the pay-to-list program has begun, my bids have picked up dramatically..."
--Patsy White
<http://user.auctions.yahoo.com/user/patsy_white>
-------------
This is a real go-getter with 89 items, mostly under $10. Seven of the 89 have 1 bid only and the rest no bids. If they sell at the current price, she will gross about $50. About 20 of them are featured. However she does have a 900 rating with 22 sales the past week and 105 the past month. The only problem is that her feedback shows items sold for $1.00, $2.00, $3.20, etc. What is she going to do when the funny money runs out and she starts LOSING money instead of rolling in the dough she's currently making at the rate of about $1.00 per hour?
posted on February 22, 2001 02:04:00 AM newdeichen, you asked, "The user id was: marilynn48...I just can't figure it out. Is it because nothing is left? I didn't have this many bids when I had over 1000 items posted and NO it wasn't trash or clutter!"
On her auctions with multiple bids, she's selling discontinued $60-120 (original retail) collector Barbie Dolls mint-in-box with $1.00 and $9.95 opening and NO RESERVE. Her auctions with high openings usually have one bid. If you'll look at her closed auctions, you'll see that her dolls sold AS WELL BEFORE FEES STARTED as they do now. If you didn't get bidding like that, it's because you didn't have HOT HOT merchandise that you could afford to sell for $1.00 if only one person bid (notice the high shipping charges to help cover a loss). I hope she has an unlimited cheap supply of Barbies, because I sure don't.
And the one with 89 listings WAAAAAAAY overpriced a contemporary molded resin cameo at $59 plus $4.95 shipping by stating that it's "carved from ivory" and belonged to her 80-year-old aunt's mother (which, I suppose, COULD be true if her aunt's mother bought it just before she died). I see that eBay isn't the only auction with misrepresented merchandise.
Did Yahoo pay these people to give "testimonies"??? If I were one of these sellers, and my sell-through rate hadn't actually GONE UP because of the fees, or my final bid prices realized hadn't actually GONE UP in the last two weeks, and ESPECIALLY if I were using "funny money" to pay to list and feature instead of money out of my own pocket, I CERTAINLY wouldn't give false testimony about it unless Yahoo GAVE ME SOMETHING MONETARY for lying.
posted on February 22, 2001 06:50:52 AM new
I really wonder how many of these bids are accurate. I was looking at the toys page and all the featured auctions on that page had 4 bids. I think there were 25 auctions listed and each and every one of them had 4 bids. I didn't investigate further but.....
I spent a lot of time over the past 2 years searching toys for the great deals and it never was so uniform.
I also ran into an interesting little thing. I have been trying to contact a seller on Yahoo to find out how much shipping is going to be, etc before I bid on an item. I never ask the question directly in the question box but request the seller contact me.
Haven't heard anything so I checked back and the auction shows "no questions asked". If Yahoo has time to check auctions for questions to censor why can't they read their emails and answer them with real responses?
posted on February 22, 2001 07:40:01 AM new
I hope they do have a sense of humor because I just left my own testimonial about how my bids and sales have increased since Yahoo started charging fees and I started listing elsewhere.
posted on February 22, 2001 02:13:26 PM new
I know Marilynn48. She's a good seller and she has worked real hard to build a loyal following of buyers. THAT is why she can offer valuable items at $1.00 opening bid, it's because she's marketed her goods and provided good customer service and now she has built a steady base of buyers and she gets bids and sells her stuff on Y! for more than the same items sell at on ebay.
Frankly, this really smacks of sour grapes.
I'm not thrilled with what Yahoo did with the fees, or the way they did it. That's not Marilynn48's fault. Maybe, instead of criticizing, it would make more sense to take a look at how she's developed her business on Yahoo and learn a little about how you CAN be successful there.
posted on February 22, 2001 02:29:44 PM new
Brian Fitzgerald wants you to send him your resume. He's looking for a new spin Doctor or 2, as the current ones are just about all spun out.
posted on February 22, 2001 03:00:03 PM new
toyranch,
Marilynn48 indeed has a remarkable track record.
I went back over the past many weeks of closed auctions for past results, and looked at live auctions to estimate sales for this next seven-day period:
12/07 to 12/13 - 27 sales
12/14 to 12/20 - 40 sales
12/21 to 12/27 - 10 sales
12/28 to 01/03 - 33 sales
01/04 to 01/10 - 39 sales
01/11 to 01/17 - 26 sales
01/18 to 01/24 - 31 sales
01/25 to 01/31 - 35 sales
02/01 to 02/07 - 31 sales
02/08 to 02/14 - 39 sales
02/15 to 02/21 - 25 sales
02/22 to 02/28 - 19 sales (estimated)
It appears that there are fewer listings and/or fewer sales of late. It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next several weeks, that's for sure.
posted on February 22, 2001 03:22:36 PM new
Toyranch,
I am certainly NOT saying anything bad about this seller. Obviously, she has and is contining to do very well at Yahoo. The truth of the matter though, is I am jealous!
Oh well!
posted on February 22, 2001 03:25:21 PM new
toyranch,
Maybe you read something into our posts about Marilynn48 that isn't there, because I wasn't criticizing her, I criticized another seller (the one with the misrepresented cameo---which it was, and I stand by my criticism). Some poor buyer got CONTEMPORARY MOLDED RESIN instead of the ANTIQUE CARVED IVORY he was bidding on, and that's a fact.
deichen wondered why Marilynn48 is able to sell so well when he can't, and I answered his question with my observations of her auctions---that she's offering expensive "HOT" collector Barbies with $1.00 and $9.95 opening bids and no reserves. THAT FACT IN ITSELF will bring multiple bidding, *regardless* of a seller's customer service and reputation on an auction. This is not to say that she DOESN'T offer good service to her buyers, or that she HASN'T worked hard to build a buyer base on Yahoo. I don't doubt that she has (as have many other less-successful sellers of other merchandise). But if Nobody-John-Doe puts a discontinued, mint-in-box, $120 collector Barbie on Yahoo for $1.00 without a reserve, HE WILL GET ACTIVE BIDDING, TOO.
And the fact is, her sales appear to have been as good BEFORE FEES STARTED as they are now (which you seem to verify in your post). So a testimonial praising Yahoo's listing fees by any sellers who have NOT REALLY BENEFITED FROM THE FEES IS TO BE QUESTIONED, and justly so.
Why would sellers PRAISE the fees unless the fees have, in some way---by greater percentages of successful auctions and/or higher prices realized---been GOOD for their sales???
toyranch, you said, "I'm not thrilled with what Yahoo did with the fees, or the way they did it. That's not Marilynn48's fault."
No one said it WAS her fault, or that she had ANYTHING to do with implementing the fees.
"Maybe, instead of criticizing, it would make more sense to take a look at how she's developed her business on Yahoo and learn a little about how you CAN be successful there."
Many, many of us WERE successful on Yahoo (with lower sell-through, but more listings), had developed our businesses on Yahoo with excellent customer service and satisfied buyers, but WE CANNOT AFFORD THE FEES AS THEY ARE because we don't have "HOT" merchandise like expensive Barbies (that ALWAYS sell) that we're able to buy cheaply. That's not sour grapes, that's just stating fact. I wish her well, and I hope she has an unlimited supply of Barbies to sell on Yahoo (at higher prices than she buys them for). But EVERYONE CAN'T SELL BARBIES, and everyone can't sell coins and sports cards and autographs and Beanies and digital cameras and pornography and grossly underpriced items. The truth is, there's very little ELSE selling on Yahoo with enough frequency to justify paying the listing fees.
So the only thing Marilynn48 can *really* teach us is WHERE TO BUY EXPENSIVE BARBIES CHEAPLY.
And I, for one, am ready and willing to be taught.
[ edited by granee on Feb 23, 2001 08:46 PM ]
posted on February 22, 2001 03:29:44 PM new
I think if you study her listings, you will find the statement she made:
"A flood of sellers left Yahoo! Auctions when listing fees were introduced for auction items... In my case, since the pay-to-list program has begun, my bids have picked up dramatically..."
is pure spin. And who cares how many bids she has? What about sales? What about those items she sold for $1.00 and $2.00? Nobody is making money selling items for under $5.00 whether they are paying a listing fee or not. The bottom line is, when her funny money runs out she will be over on Bidville just like you and me.
posted on February 22, 2001 04:36:06 PM new
Well granee~
You made a suggestion that she and others are paid shills for Yahoo!
*********************************************
"Did Yahoo pay these people to give "testimonies"??? If I were one of these sellers, and my sell-through rate hadn't actually GONE UP because of the fees, or my final bid prices realized hadn't actually GONE UP in the last two weeks, and ESPECIALLY if I were using "funny money" to pay to list and feature instead of money out of my own pocket, I CERTAINLY wouldn't give false testimony about it unless Yahoo GAVE ME SOMETHING MONETARY for lying."
*********************************************
You said they're lying, and maybe they just see it differently than you do. It's not about HOW MANY bids you get. It's not about the final price either. It's about PROFIT.
If I list an item I expect to get $30 out of and get $45 instead, I'm happy. Real happy.
If I list an item I expect to get $45 out of, and I get $30, I'm not so happy.
If her expectations are exceeded to a greater extent than before, she can accurately report bids being UP, even if fewer items sell.
As far as sources, I don't know what her sources are, and I seriously doubt she has any interest in telling you.
A few possibilities...
#1 She bought from someone in a 'distress sale' situation, at pennies on the dollar. I've been offered and have purchased collections in this manner before.
#2 She be a dealer who buys wholesale straight from the manufacturer.
#3 She may be friends with a dealer who buys from the manufacturer and includes her orders.
It may be one of those, it may be something else completely.
Bottom line, I really thought Yahoo had shot themselves in the head, and I told them so. I've spent a great deal of my own time, with NO compensation, trying to promote Yahoo auctions as an alternative to ebay. So have many others. Over the course of last year, we say Y! auctions go from around a million listings, to over 3 million. Now they're holding at around 400,000.
I received an email TODAY, unrelated to this thread, from an ebay seller who is also selling on Yahoo. She told me her sellthough on Yahoo is better than her sellthrough on ebay. She makes and sells jewelry. She did note that her sales on BOTH sites are paltry.
Fact is, there are SOME signs that this might actually work for Yahoo. It might not work for YOU, but it might work better for some.
I don't blame anyone for being hurt and angry that they got booted out of their marketplace. Especially since it was one that many cared about and worked hard to develop.
Fact is that doing business has a cost. Go list at Bidville or wherever, and as soon as you've worked to build that up, they'll have fees as well. If your sales cannot support a cost, or if you can't pass along a listing fee in a higher price or a handling fee, you need to examine your business and consider changing it to keep pace with the changing market. ANY business that doesn't change and adapt will fail.
posted on February 22, 2001 04:52:04 PM new
toyranch said:
Now they're holding at around 400,000. It's not about the final price either. It's about PROFIT.
Did you see the new counts? The real counts where items aren't double listed, etc....? The total is around 250,000.
The Final price determines the profit! It is all about the final price!!!
One more thing, dealer prices on collector Barbies is certainly more than what she opens her bids for, so.....it is a risk. One she is willing to take and I am not!
posted on February 22, 2001 05:25:42 PM new
I think some people still do not see the light. The niche that YaWho? has abandoned as junk sellers are something just destined for the internet. It's like having all the world's flea markets in one location. Not only that, but you don't have to walk to each booth. The search engine allows you to browse them all quickly if you have any idea what you're looking for.
The whining buyers who got to YaWho? with tears about the spam were probably to illiterate to use the search engine or else just bottom feeders who were distraught at not seeing all give-away prices. I heard about the spam but never saw any because I searched around it.
The facts are that you can't assemble all the world's flea markets in one place and charge the sellers for every item on display every 10 days. The sellers need to list lots of items to get 1 sale and have patience to get that. The seller's who post here were almost unanamous in understanding that the YaWho? would not be a freebie forever and saying they would pay a 5% FV fee. That makes sense. Then all the junk can be listed without second guessing what will sell when. The seller's expenses are predictable: always a %age of sales. And YaWho? could also easily predict their cut by taking 5% of sales (minus the refunds for deadbeats).
What with Henry Blodgett predicting listing fees would generate 50 to 80 million a year and FV fees by my estimate at less than $10 million a year, YaWho? blindly and without any analysis of what they were all about, shot for the moon. The experienced sellers here knew what would happen, they predicted it, and it did happen. With 200,000 auctions mostly listed with funny money, YaWho? better get ready for a take of 2 million or less rather than the 10 million they could have had with FV fees.
posted on February 22, 2001 05:39:44 PM new
zzyzx000~
On that:
*********************************************
I think some people still do not see the light. The niche that YaWho? has abandoned as junk sellers are something just destined for the internet. It's like having all the world's flea markets in one location. Not only that, but you don't have to walk to each booth. The search engine allows you to browse them all quickly if you have any idea what you're looking for.
*********************************************
We agree.
Yahoo doesn't see it, they're not GONNA see it anytime soon. But that is likely to take root as a Napster-like marketplace. It's sure not an auction. If you're not talking about listing items with low starting bids and a finite time for bidding to occur, you're not talking about an auction.
posted on February 22, 2001 05:54:20 PM new
Agreed again. I was trying to keep the subject simple. My success on Yahoo was all about using the minimum bid = to the Buy price which is the same as a classified ad. My sales tripled when I started doing that and then tripled again when I put "1st Bid WINS" in the title (buyers don't read and don't understand so you have to lead them by the hand).
When people find an item they want they want it NOW. The auction is suitable for rare and valuable items. 95% or more of the stuff on ePay and the former YaWho? were much better suited for a classified ad. And that makes the listing fee even more outrageous. If you cut out the auction game and list something at the fair value, the listing fee goes from $.20 to $1.50 real fast.
posted on February 22, 2001 07:18:39 PM newToyranch: I sell mainly audiobooks. I sell the same ones on eBay as I do on Yahoo -- I always put my duplicates on Yahoo.
My success rate on FIRST-LISTING sales on eBay is around 80%; the remaining 20% almost always sell after the 1st relist!
THESE VERY SAME audiobooks, on Yahoo, usually needed 3 - 5 RELISTS before selling! Well, I didn't mind, because there was NO LISTING FEE!
If they had offered FVF, I would not have complained! If they had offered FVF with i RETROACTIVE once list fee, I would not have complained!
BUT HOW CAN I POSSIBLY justify Yahoo listing fees?? It was just plain STUPID!
posted on February 22, 2001 07:38:27 PM new
The 2 testimonials still ring false as reviewing the history in the seller's closed auctions clearly shows that, contrary to the quotations, neither's results have improved.
posted on February 22, 2001 07:43:36 PM new
toyranch,
I really don't/didn't BELIEVE that Yahoo is paying sellers for "testimonies".....I simply find it incredulous that sellers would flippantly SING PRAISES about the listing fees WHEN THEIR OWN SELLING RECORDS DON'T REFLECT IMPROVEMENT since the fees started. Some of these sellers in their "testimonies" ARE lying, and you can look at their listings to see it. Others are simply not SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING what they say before "speaking"---Yahoo asks for positive comments, and they type in something without EXAMINING the truth in it.
They might say, "I'm getting lots more bids than before" but fail to point out that they're now listing $1.00/no reserve/no buy price auctions but USED to list $9.99/12.99 buy price auctions.
Others, I think, don't grasp the "real picture", like a dealer who says "I've paid the rent" with a $300 sale---when the sold merchandise cost her $125, the mall took 8% commission on the sale, and her rent is $300 (reality: she made about half the rent).
You said, "It's not about HOW MANY bids you get. It's not about the final price either. It's about PROFIT."
I couldn't agree more! That's why it RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY to see glowing "testimonials" about listing fees by people who are *hardly making any profit*---and not making any more than they did BEFORE the fees started. Did you look at the auctions of the sellers mentioned above??? They're blowing almost as much smoke as YahWho is.
As for Marilynn48, I hope she DID get her Barbies cheaply, and I hope she DOES make a good profit on them, but if you'll look at her closed auctions for the last three months, you'll see that 3 months ago she usually opened bidding high, getting one or two bids, and on the auctions she opened LOW with no reserve, she got multiple bids (up to 28!). Her auctions NOW usually open low/no reserve/FEATURED with multiple bids, and the few she opens HIGH get one or two bids. From where I sit, it looks like she's just substituted one strategy for another, with EQUAL results (few high bids = many bids ending high).
And I really didn't expect her to reveal her source for Barbies to me or anyone else. Just a little dry humor (which deichen understands, don't you, deich?---far be it for ME to call you bit---!!!!!!!!!!)
"Fact is, there are SOME signs that this might actually work for Yahoo. It might not work for YOU, but it might work better for some."
toyranch, the only way it will work for Yahoo is if they're content to cut their categories back by 95% and collect listing fees ONLY from the dealers of "HOT" items---coins, cards, autographs, Beanies, electronics, pornography, and give-aways---because that's all who will be left to actually PAY fees (out-of-pocket)---the only ones "it might work better for".
You're right that it won't work for me. I don't have "HOT" items.
"If your sales cannot support a cost, or if you can't pass along a listing fee in a higher price or a handling fee, you need to examine your business and consider changing it to keep pace with the changing market. ANY business that doesn't change and adapt will fail."
No one here said our sales can't "support a cost". I'm one of those who would have paid FVFs OR high listing fees with free relists OR low listing fees OR a flat monthly fee AND NOT COMPLAINED ONE BIT. But my sales record on Yahoo tells me I can't pay the fees YaWho wants and come out ahead. I'd have to raise my prices so high to cover the fees I'd never sell anything, at a time when buyer numbers are dwindling (about which YaWho is DOING NOTHING TO PREVENT) and nothing will sell unless the price is LOWERED.
I can "change and adapt" to keep from failing. The question is, can YaWho???
posted on February 22, 2001 08:53:59 PM new
And I still believe that once the account credit fees are used up - Yahoo Auctions will drop - AGAIN!
The approx 400,000 number happens when you search the whole site, so the business category etc items are included, not double listings.
Anyone can go do a general search for an item that crosses many categories and COUNT the number of bids on items ending in the next 24 hours. We regularly come up with about 2%-6% bid rate. If Yahoo's STATED goal was to increase items that are good AUCTION items they have FAILED miserably.
posted on February 23, 2001 12:23:04 AM new
Toyranch
you need to examine your business and consider changing it to keep pace with the changing market.
I have to agree with this statement. I'm no Yahoo cheerleader and I never have been, but since I've changed the way I do business on Yahoo, I've seen some improvement. I've found a way to make Yahoo profitable, but the jury is still out on how practical it is to list there.
Out of the last 10 auctions I've had close on Yahoo, 7 closed with bids (6 closed at the buy price). I currently have 14 auctions running with 3 oustanding bids, but expect to close more than half of the remaining auctions successfully (hopefully at the buy price). This is not even close to my sales/bid percentage on Ebay but it's very good for Yahoo.
I do not see that anyone could currently be successful listing in volume on Yahoo (unless you are selling highly desirable items), but if you keep your listings to a minimum and list only items that you are sure will sell you can still make money....
posted on February 23, 2001 03:49:26 AM new
One thing that still worries me about yahoo is the deadbeats. I had 42 items cose with winners in the month before the fees were impremented. Guess what? 25 were deadbeats! 10 never bothered to respond to my emails, and 9 were from bidders with numbers, unblemished feedbacks, and I was their bad, for some of them delayed me for 30 days and still no payment.
From what i hear they are still not doing anything about deatbeats so whats the point? At least ebays take care of deadbeats by giving them three strikes.
posted on February 23, 2001 05:58:01 AM new
Outoftheblue says:
but if you keep your listings to a minimum and list only items that you are sure will sell you can still make money....
I have an eccletic (spelling) assortment of items and really have no idea what will sell fast or not! That is why FVF would have worked for me. I have had items sit listed for months and then BAM, it sells! I think that is also something Yahoo! is overlooking. Not every item is right for every person. It may take time for the item and person to hook up. And when they do, the buyers are very happy!
posted on February 23, 2001 02:00:29 PM new
And the spin goes on:
From today's THE STREET.COM:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ts/010223/valley_010223.html
----------
Quote Brian Fitzgerald:
"Fitzgerald argues that more important yardsticks for Yahoo! Auctions' success are gross merchandise sales, or the aggregate dollar value of all auctions that close with a winner, and transaction volume, or the number of completed transactions. Fitzgerald says these numbers, which he didn't disclose, have stayed steady after the listing fees, maxing out at $2.25, were instituted in the middle of January. "
-----------------------
The reason he didn't disclose them is because it can't be true.
More Fitzgerald:
"The reason that gross merchandise sales and transaction volume haven't dropped, says Fitzgerald, is that the auctions that have left are the ones for relatively unattractive items that were cluttering up the site. "The nature of the listings that have dropped off are the ones that were not going to sell anyway,"
------------
I was selling 300 items a month. Just not as quickly as he or I would have liked as it took 2000 listings for me to achieve that.
More Fitzgerald:
In response to unhappy user feedback, for example, Yahoo! Auctions has changed its policy on how it responds to users it believes have violated its terms of service, he says. In contrast to its past practice of nonspecific notifications, "we are being very specific about what terms of service they've violated, obviously in the hopes that they can change what they're doing and stay on the system."
------------------
This is the first I've heard of this. Has anybody gotten any more than a form letter saying they violated TOS?
