posted on September 13, 2003 05:18:21 AM newI haven't read much on this subject....did try to read helen's links but the require registration to the NewYork Times...and thank you, but no thank you.
Linda, New York Times registration is really very simple and only requires zip code and birth date.
Anyway, it's good to see Fenix being nice and playing well with others.
posted on September 13, 2003 07:41:00 AM new
Helen - Is that what you call an apology for another unprovoked name calling attack? Are you incapable of admitting fault. This is the second time in just a few days you have gone on the attack with me for no reason. It's getting old.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on September 13, 2003 08:24:37 AM new
::Competitive? How do you see the US competitive in a world market that has labor outside the US at levels that wouldn't support a homeless man here in the US?::
I was reffering to the cost of our goods. If we are unable to produce products that can be sold for the same or less than other countries products then we cannot be competitive on a world market.
::Where is the "balance" in that? The US should not have to lower our standards to "compete" in a global market, any new agreements should include wages, health and safety requirements and EPA standards that the other country must abide by to have tariff free products brought into this country.::
That's a wonderful utopian concept but lets be realistic. This country does not have the right to demand that a much poorer nation employ at it's standards. That's a little arogant don't you think? There are areas in which we will not be ble to compete. We have not been able to compete wage wize in the labor field for decades.
:: Wonder how many companies would then reinvest right here at home. Because it would be actually just as "cheap" here to do business.::
Don't you think it is just a little arrogant that you are demanding that the rest of the world move up so that we can compete with them?
::People like you Fenix who are running off to live outside the US are actually the ones bringing down the US through economic means and now is the time to put a stop to it. ::
You are going to have to make up your mind here Twelve. Do you want other countries to have increased incomes which result in higher standards of living which ultimately result in higher wages or not. You cannot simply force a nation to triple the wages of it's people at the snap of a finger, that is economically unfeasable, it has to be a slow build. Rather than raging against people like me, you should be supporting them. I am not trying to take advantage of lower wages, my intention is to enable higher wages.
I don't disagree with you that other countries should be matching our standards. The difference is you want to demand it of them and I want to enable it.
:: The "American Dream" of owning a home is almost dead here in the US, not many in So Cal can even think of buying a home, unless that is what every dime they make goes for each and every month. ::
You got it baby! There is no way in hell I am paying $600k for a home in this area. It's hard enough to rent. But that is not the fault of cheap overseas labor. Talk to the builders and real estate agents in this state on that one. BTW - I've heard at least three experts predicting that this market is about to collapse in a big way. Like the stock market, it is artifically high and is in the next couple years is going to see some rather dramatic corrections... but that is another thread.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
[ edited by Fenix03 on Sep 13, 2003 08:25 AM ]
posted on September 13, 2003 08:50:01 AM new
As an employer - tell me how realistic it would be for someone to come to you and demand that you triple the wages of all of your employees? What would your reaction be? Would you financially be able to do it and still survive?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on September 13, 2003 08:58:39 AM new
That is not a valid question, I live in the US and I want other countries to go out of business.. or raise their standards to ours.
How about concentrating on those countries that pay three time LESS and making suggestions for them.
But to answer your ridiculous question, I would see if my raising wages would make me still profitable and if so... yes I would and if not I would close the doors and tell the government why...
I like how your "Balance" seems to be always against the US....
posted on September 13, 2003 09:25:01 AM newThe "American Dream" of owning a home is almost dead here in the US, not many in So Cal can even think of buying a home,unless that is what every dime they make goes for each and every month
So what part of that didn't you understand profe?
I don't know where you got your graph but beyond Spetember it is all estimates... houses can be started, doesn't mean they are purchased.
edited to add.... many are buying homes now that rates are down... 5 years from now lets see how many still own a home.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Sep 13, 2003 09:26 AM ]
posted on September 13, 2003 09:45:18 AM new
::That is not a valid question, I live in the US and I want other countries to go out of business.. or raise their standards to ours. ::
How is it invalid Twelve - that is what you are asking foreign business owners to do. You want them to raise their standards, including wages and I asked you as a business owner yourself, how realistic that demand would be and if it is something you would be capable of doing.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
[ edited by Fenix03 on Sep 13, 2003 10:20 AM ]
posted on September 13, 2003 09:47:27 AM new
Prof - Housing starts are up, but so are repossessions. The low interest rates have inspired people to jump into the housing market before they are realistically able to do so. They are signing the contract and purchasing the homes, they are just proving to be unable to continue ownership in record numbers.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on September 13, 2003 10:02:24 AM newCommunity organizations across the country are telling NTIC that home foreclosures are ravaging their neighborhoods, leaving behind abandoned homes, depleted property tax revenues and displacing families. The city of Chicago, which experienced a nearly 20% increase in homeownership in the past decade, has been hit hard by foreclosures. Annual foreclosures started in Chicago increased 74% from 1993 to 2001, from 4,927 to 8,556. Several community areas on the south and west sides of the city experienced over a 300% increase in the number of foreclosures started. There is a similar story from Cleveland where foreclosures started increased 200% in the past four years.
Seems pretty clear, people maybe buying, but aren't keeping...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
I didn't misunderstand anything. You stated as I quoted you, that the american dream of owning a house was almost dead in the US. That would lead one to believe that it is more difficult than ever for the average person to own a home, when in fact the opposite is true. You used California as an example, but that doesn't necessarily (thank god almighty) represent the rest of the country. I don't know it for a fact, but I would be willing to bet that large home building firms use a variety of factors when making the decision to build more units...like maybe they look at projected demand, and economic trends. That it's a bubble about to burst I won't disagree with. We are fighting the projected installation of a 250+ unit planned "community" adjacent to our ranch. It will drill deep wells which may affect our water table. The property in question is currently state land, but the whores in our state land department are being wooed into a swap by the developer who wants to do the project. This is OT I know, but the topical point is I can see this project becoming a repo-slum in a few years if we can't stop it.
Out of curiosity and in all seriousness, haven't you posted in other threads assertions that the economy is on the mend? How does this fit with your views on the imperiled American Dream?
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I want to have Ann Coulter's babies
posted on September 13, 2003 10:34:19 AM new
To me the reward of an economy on the mend is the "American Dream"
I do see the economy getting better day by day, also I will agree that some areas are not suffering as much as others and with the interest rates low home buying is in a boom.
However it is a slim thing between owning and keeping...
posted on September 13, 2003 11:04:14 AM new "Helen - Is that what you call an apology for another unprovoked name calling attack? Are you incapable of admitting fault. This is the second time in just a few days you have gone on the attack with me for no reason. It's getting old."
No apology from me, Fenix....just an observation, that after I pointed out your obnoxious behavior, you changed. But, you are still the queen of unprovoked attacks with comments such as "bite me".
Ugh!
posted on September 13, 2003 12:15:44 PM new
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah....
Do you actually believe these claims you make?
::scoff::
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
[ edited by Fenix03 on Sep 13, 2003 12:17 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2003 02:31:51 PM new
Helen - I give you the same respect that I recieve from you. I pointed out that there was information that your articles did not include and you start the name calling game again. (not to mention a "My links are better than your links" response - ROFL!) I call you on it and you completely ignore your own behavior and start accusing me of behavior which I did not display. You get what you give Helen.
As for me telling you to bite mein a different thread... I stand by that. If you are incapable of being involved in a discussion with me without pointing fingers and making false accusations and calling me names, you can indeed bite me.
By the way "Bite Me' is not an attack, it is fact a reaction to your self righteous attitude.
Now - I am done with you. You can continue to play this strange little game but I am confident that the only person buying it is you.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on September 13, 2003 02:43:36 PM new
I've been around for awhile, Fenix and everyone knows that I don't make unprovoked attacks. Anyone can see, however that your remarks to others in the beginning of this thread alone qualify as such.
Now, I am done with you. There is no further point in trying to communicate.
