posted on September 21, 2003 08:50:41 AM new
twelvepole - You bring up a good point in saying: I worked the fields when I was in my teens... great summer jobs... of course now that so many illegals are here, kids have no place to work...
Sometimes I think that's why we appear to have more 'problem youths' these days than we did. Many aren't being taught the value of hard work....earning their own money....it's given to them by their parents. Or they just complain and expect someone else to give them what they think they deserve.
Now if they can't start out at a VPs salary level they aren't interested, especially in doing hard physical work. Parents don't seem to understand that youths who are given everything, and have little asked of them don't learn the same 'values' youth once did. Now they're bored, with little to do, and find other ways to keep themselves busy....sometimes doing things that aren't at all productive nor positive.
posted on September 21, 2003 10:15:37 AM new
Thanks for posting that article, Kiara. Interesting especially:
California Governor Gray Davis vetoed a state bill in 2000 to give in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens, but he signed such a bill in October 2001. The California Board of Regents then voted 17-5 to make this windfall available at the University of California.
Dissenting Regent Ward Connerly said the result is "just flat wrong": "Every citizen living legally in the other 49 states will be charged a higher tuition rate in California than illegal immigrants who happen to be in California."
California universities now make a student from Arizona pay nearly four times as much as an illegal alien.
At California's state universities, in-state students and illegal aliens now pay $1,839, out-of-staters pay $7,380; at UC Berkeley, in- staters and illegals pay $3,859, out-of-staters $15,000. The difference is subsidized by the highly-taxed citizens of California plus the highly-taxed taxpayers from the 49 other states who provide all kinds of federal student benefits but whose own children are discriminated against.
And CA is not alone in providing a ton of benefits to illegals. I just can't understand how some American's feel this is 'right' when our own citizens either pay more or go lacking because the precious funds are used in these ways.....for illegals.
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I was also surprised in reading that some LEGAL immigrants work here and don't pay taxes....just like most illegals don't. They were the HB1 class of workers. So one Silicon Valley worker [US citizen] and another immigrant working right beside him/her, making the same wage doesn't pay taxes either. And also our government doesn't collect taxes from some workers who are here from China.
And we wonder why our states are experiencing their budget problems???? Should be easy to see why.
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Illegals should be deported. I fully support legal immigrants.
posted on September 21, 2003 10:21:20 AM new
during the Y2K crisis,many indian programmers were brought in to program and they are on special visa ,they dont have to pay taxes and they can get their ss withheld back .
they are expected to report their earnings to the indian govt and pay indian taxes once they return!!!!!!!!
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on September 21, 2003 10:25:53 AM new
Considering that they will not be collecting SS from the US, why shouldn't they get it back?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on September 21, 2003 10:38:44 AM new
fenix - For me...the problem I have with:
Considering that they will not be collecting SS from the US, why shouldn't they get it back, is that it should be one way or the other. Either you don't pay into the system because you won't be here to use it....BUT then, if that's agreed upon, we don't pay SS to those who have never paid into the system.
I, personally, was referring to Federal taxes in my post on the Silicon Valley workers.
posted on September 21, 2003 10:43:34 AM new
Linda - I was asking the SS question to Stop since they brought it up. I just forgot to address it to them.
My assumption is that the SS is collected on the premise that the person may elect to stay in the country and become a citizen in which case they should have been paying SS thruout their employment. As far as not paying benfits to people that did not paying into the system... I thought that was already the rule and if it is not, I don't disagree that it should be.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on September 21, 2003 10:58:30 AM new
is that the ss supplemental like 375 a month-oldies who come to live with their children get them,give them some pocket change and some dignity.
but i have heard that is changing too.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on September 22, 2003 12:17:32 AM newAbout half of the illegal alien population is comprised of visa overstayers--people who entered the country legally, but became illegal aliens by their failure to leave the U.S. upon expiration of their visa. Once entry occurs, there is little chance of detection and virtually no chance of deportation, except for convicted criminals.
America is always touted as the "land of opportunity" and since it's so easy for aliens to stay in the country there will always be a problem.
If they can get jobs and subsidized college tuition to better themselves of course they will tell all their friends and relatives and they will want to come to America also. Wouldn't you? I think the opportunites for a better life far outweigh the risks of being caught.
posted on September 22, 2003 01:30:26 AM new
Actually in this day and age of computers I'm surprised there isn't a better database to keep track of the expiring visas. This was brought to everyone's attention after 9/11.
And I see a lot of anger and contempt (not on this thread) directed towards the illegals whereas there should be more shown towards the government that allowed this to get so out of control.
posted on September 22, 2003 02:25:47 AM new
" What wage should we pay a worker cutting lettuce in Salinas all day? It's got to be more than they're getting now. If we'll all accept paying $3 for a head of lettuce instead of $1.25 it would work. But wait, NAFTA mean the lettuce can still come across the border from Mexico at $1.25 a head of lettuce anyway."
No - I'm sorry these people who run the business are not facing such a hard choice. It's more likely the head of lettuce would cost $1.30 or $1.35 instead of $1.25.
This is true in almost every industry that they will cut the wage below a living level and mistreat the worker for pennies. It's the Harvard Business School world where the dignity of the worker means nothing. Maximized profit for the next quarter means everything.
In my little town there are franchise burger places and a few chicken and taco places who pay down near minimum wage. They have such poor service I avoid them. You can't order three items and expect them to get it right.
But there is a Coney Island downtown that pays $15 an hour to start and when you go in they get your order FAST - right - and are friendly with you. The servings are generous. They put enough sauce on the dog it falls out when you eat it. They have a tip jar there and ring a bell when a tip goes in. Watching the rate of tips one day sitting eating I figured out the crew of five makes more per hour from tips ALONE than the workers down the street at Burger King. With tips they are making in the low $20/hr range and the business is doing great. There is a line at noon out the door of people waiting - but they know it moves fast. A collage educated business manager would come in and ruin it in a week by slashing wages - reducing the quality of the food and seeking a cheaper location.
posted on September 22, 2003 02:33:46 AM new
Kiara - whereas there should be more shown towards the government that allowed this to get so out of control.
I agree the government is ultimately the one who can control the problem. I've felt for a 100 years that our boarders should be controlled better, more funding should be put into personnel to check when visa's expire, more boarder agents should be hired, etc, but each side of the aisle has it's own reasons for not doing so.
AND then there's the funding issue. Hasn't been a big priority with many citizens who believe we should welcome one and all and who cares if visas expire, or if people continue to come into our country by the millions.....WE [our economy] won't feel the affects of that....[right].
The Bush administration has worked to get new, updated computer systems to deal with many issues and has made funding available to start making changes. That was one of the first things the left started complaining about when funding was made available for updating our agencies outdated computer systems.
posted on September 22, 2003 03:30:04 AM new
Very good article, we place so many benefits at Illegals feet, it is no wonder they come here in droves.
It was real shame when Prop 187 got overturned in CA, btw it had an overwhelming majority voted "yes" on the proposition...
The visa expiration should be an easy fix, but then again there is opposition to anything that does protect our borders. One day though I think enough people will wake up and see that we do need to tighten the borders and have better control over visas.
posted on September 22, 2003 04:17:46 AM newwhen Prop 187 got overturned in CA, btw it had an overwhelming majority voted "yes" on the proposition....
California is FAMOUS for the voters supporting and voting for different propositions, and then they get overturned. For some reason the elected officals don't care what the majority of the voters decide.
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I've read that small strides to tighten up our southern boarder have been implemented, but IF we're really serious, I think we need to place our National Guards there to deal with the issue.
posted on September 22, 2003 04:29:03 AM new
I've read about the expired Visa problem. It's like an expired Drivers License. You can drive all you want on it without fear that is until you are pulled over for a traffic violation. Sounds like it works on the same principle. We monitor the Visas about as well as we monitor parolees. Not very well.
If a rule in put in place shouldn't there be safeguards to assure that it is being adhered to? What's the sense in requiring Visas if we can't track these people? I'm sure it's known all over the world how easy it is to come here and stay.
And NO ONE pull the race card on me. I'm just stating a fact. The last time I was inside the Welfare building here, I'd have to say 95% of those recipients did not speak in English. It was like being inside the UN (I'm imaging because I've never been inside the UN). Forgive my ignorance but, are we the only country in the world to offer up Welfare benefits? And, do you have to prove citizenship in order to receive them?
Cheryl
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Sep 22, 2003 04:32 AM ]
that our boarders should be controlled better, more funding should be put into personnel to check when visa's expire, more boarder agents should be hired, etc, but each side of the aisle has it's own reasons for not doing so.
