posted on September 24, 2003 09:32:23 AM newBAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqis gave largely negative reviews Wednesday to President Bush's speech to the United Nations in which he said Washington would not be forced into a hasty return of power to local authorities.
Some longed for the return of a different kind of power - electricity - so that they can lead normal lives, and perhaps see such news on television.
In the first gathering of world leaders at the General Assembly since the United States toppled Saddam, Bush was unapologetic about the war and its chaotic aftermath and unyielding on U.S. terms for creating a democratic government.
posted on September 24, 2003 09:41:58 AM new
helen....be careful there or you're going to have a stoke. LOL We still have almost 14 months to each present our sides of the issues...and you aren't going to weather it well if you get so excited at this early in the game.
One problem in *our* communication is that you keep hopping around on what LIE you're accusing me of continuing to spread. I started this thread to show the positives that ARE being reported about what's happening in Iraq. I'm sharing a different side so others can see there is positive progress being made. Those who have been over there, have viewed the situation first hand and are reporting how different this is what what the left-slanting media continues to put out.
This seems to be getting you so upset that you keep accusing me of lying while you continue jumping from one issue to another, rather than focusing on the first LIE you've accused me of spreading. Which was:
posted on September 22, 2003 06:50:52 AM Linda While troops are being wounded and killed daily, you are doing them a serious injustice by trying to spread the LIE that all's well in Iraq. The troops are facing increasing opposition from terrorist attacks in a guerrilla land war with no end in sight. Right now it's a battle zone. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth when you jump from the message that all is so very rosy to a request for billions of funds that America can't easily afford to provide.
I never said we could 'easily to afford to provide'. But I do believe it's a necessary expense that will be in America's best interest in the long run.
Not sure why my posting the experiences of those who have been in Iraq and who share their experiences, is upsetting you so. And why my posting these articles, polls, etc. lead you to believe I'm telling a LIE. lol
I'm presenting the other side, helen. So people just might wake up to the fact that to withdraw our troops now, to not properly finance the needed efforts to reach our goals, would be the worst thing we could possibly do.
posted on September 24, 2003 09:50:41 AM new
Kiara - Bush was unapologetic about the war and its chaotic aftermath and unyielding on U.S. terms for creating a democratic government. I'm so glad to have a serving President who doesn't turn into a whimp when public opinion goes against him. But rather holds to his beliefs because he truly believes his position is the right one.
--------
and again, Kiara - Iraqis gave largely negative reviews Wednesday to President Bush's speech to the United Nations in which he said Washington would not be forced into a hasty return of power to local authorities.
ISN'T THAT ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL???? For over 35 - 40 years they never could have made such statements [if *they*, rather than the Guardian's take on it] without the fear of having their tongues cut out, their daughters raped because of their statements, being put feet first into a wood chipper screaming until they finally died. I think it's wonderful they are enjoying their first experiences of being able to speak freely. Absolutely wonderful....and all because of President Bush's actions.
posted on September 24, 2003 10:03:40 AM new
I think the US rushed into Iraq with very little planning for the aftermath. It's a big mess now and other countries are not eager to clean it up because it looks like they will have no say in how it will be done.
posted on September 24, 2003 10:19:07 AM new "you get so excited at this early in the game"
Now, Linda, you've leaped from assigning thoughts to assigning emotions.
Your rendition of "good news" is faulty, as I have pointed out. Your "facts" are not facts and all that you are left with is unreasonable hope. There is nothing good about the news from Iraq...another reason that Bush's support is falling so rapidly.
Sewage is coming through the manhole covers, there's still only 15 hours electricity a day
and anarchy grips the streets of Baghdad, but yesterday America's toothless Iraqi "interim council"
roared like a lion, issuing a set of restrictions and threats - against the press, of course.
posted on September 24, 2003 01:58:48 PM new
Kiara - It's a big mess now What I've been attempting to say here is it's not the big mess we are led to believe it is by the majority of the media.
When one ONLY reads the negative things....they start believing that's the way the whole picture is...only negative. Looking at both sides of any issue helps people make more informed decision, imo.
They may still end up holding their same position, but at least they will have seen the 'whole' picture.
Most who are constantly bitching about how badly things are going, were against the war in the first place, or hate President Bush so much that they can't look at the bigger picture of what stablizing this part of the world will accomplish.
Then we have some of our so called leaders who are bitching because there's an important election coming up next year and as politicians do...they try to make the other side look like everything they do is wrong, even IF they themselves voted to support this action. People need to see through those who do that. They're never going to see *one* positive thing going on over there.
Reading reports from those over there....our military...and those who have gone over there....give a better balance to the 'whole' picture, imo. AND they're not saying it's all rosy as helen keeps repeating they are....they're not saying there are no challenges over there that need to be met. But they ARE sharing with us what accomplishments are being made.
and other countries are not eager to clean it up because it looks like they will have no say in how it will be done. I agree with your statement. The countries that will have a say and do currently have a say, are the one's who actually contributed to the war and the rebuilding of Iraq, or will do so now.
We took the risk, we've paid the costs and we've put our soldiers lives on the line....while they risked nothing. But they sure want to tell us how WE should be handling this.
posted on September 24, 2003 02:36:45 PM new
So glad to hear you're watching Fox news lately...this is the second time you've pointed out something they've said this past week. Putting some 'balance' into your life, are you. GREAT!!
He didn't say it that way at all. But I expect nothing different from you anyway. Twist away woman.
Bush said he insulates himself from the ``opinions'' that seep into news coverage by getting his news from his own aides. He said he scans headlines, but rarely reads news stories.
posted on September 24, 2003 03:20:39 PM new
well 67% of Iraqis beleive they will be better off in 5 years because of the war. They still don't like Bush because of all the current turmoil but they do see that they will be better off because of it. That is good news like it or not. This same crap is getting old on this board, nothing new and a new poll shows that 95% of these threads turn into nothing more than sophmoric name calling games by the same five or six posters. A real shame because this use to be a pretty good board but most have left to better boards
posted on September 24, 2003 03:32:50 PM new
That poll news, is interesting but it pales in comparison to the horrible situation in Iraq now and very likely in the future. Look at the staggering number of civilians that have been killed. How can you put a happy face on that or say that the situation today justifies the killing of innocent people?
Besides the followers of Saddam, there is a religion to deal with, as this article describes.
In the guerrilla war that grips the provincial towns and weary villages of the Tigris and Euphrates valleys, the U.S. occupation is meeting resistance from those President Bush has described as foreign terrorists and "members of the old Saddam regime who fled the battlefield and now fight in the shadows." They have a common goal, he said in an address this month: "reclaiming Iraq for tyranny."
But in this Sunni Muslim town colored in shades of brown and intersected by canals of open sewage, Fahdawi and the others who died are celebrated as heroes. Neighbors and relatives call them defenders of faith, not supporters of former president Saddam Hussein. And in their words, actions and ideas, relatives say, the men represent a homegrown movement, grounded in a militant reading of religion, that augurs a new enemy for the occupation.
While their neighbors complained of rising prices -- cooking gas that has gone from 16 cents to $2, cement that has gone from $20 to $90 a ton -- the men railed against the U.S. occupation, a presence they viewed through the prism of religion, not politics.
"The Americans are infidels," Sheik Aalam Sabar, a 33-year-old cleric, said as he sat on his mosque's spotless gray carpets. "It is legitimate to fight the Americans."
On the night of July 14, Fahdawi prepared for his death.
His brothers said he told his mother to put henna on the palms of her hands, a sign of joy and celebration often reserved for a wedding night. He told his family he wanted no grieving if he was killed -- not the tents set up for mourners, not the shooting in the air that traditionally marks funerals. As a martyr, they recalled him insisting, he believed he would be alive in heaven.
He sat down to a dinner of rice, tomatoes and eggplant. When the last call to prayer pierced the sweltering summer night, he got up from the table, said an abrupt goodbye and left through a yard of lotus trees. "He didn't return," said Salah.
The muezzin's sonorous call, at 9:30 p.m., was the signal for the others.
Raed Kirtani had taken a bath and put on cologne, then laughed with his mother before leaving. Shaabani simply bid his family farewell. Some of the men donned their dark tracksuits and tennis shoes before they left. Others wore them under their dishdashas, a traditional gown. Fahdawi, his family said, had put his clothes in a bag and taken them to the mosque a day earlier.
posted on September 24, 2003 03:43:36 PM new
"Well, aren't you a little ray of sunshine. "
well Helen you want the facts and those are the facts. Just click on the links read them look at the posters and you will see that is what has happened to this board. I use to post a lot more frequently here but it's really not worth it much any more because any post is doomed to just another name calling session. Not condeming either side of the issue because both sides have thier designated blasters but it's gotten so pety and pitiful latley it sad and real waste of a once good board.
posted on September 24, 2003 04:20:21 PM new
I agree that this board and several other boards have lost a lot of good people. As you suggested, the group used to be friendlier and not so combative. I've noticed that also. You should post more often.
posted on September 24, 2003 06:13:24 PM new
Good News???
Your soldiers are dying . Good News, that’s acceptable!.
Your nation feels insecure because it is. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
The premise for war, WOMD & attack in 45minutes was fabricated. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
A resurrected arms race. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
People are being held without trial or legal representation. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
Anti-Semitism has risen, for all Semites. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
We have seen drops in expenditure on; health, education, social welfare. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
Debts are rising fast. Good News, that’s acceptable!.
Acceptable losses.
My world feels more unstable and Linda, Bear, 12, et.al. are saying, ‘good News, that’s acceptable!’.
Operation Iraqi Freedom.
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!
And The Good News Is.....
There’s oil in them there hills!!
posted on September 24, 2003 06:21:38 PM new
tomyou, what better boards?
There are no better boards than vendio and speaking of sophmoric attitudes, I have seen you post some petty comments in your own right...
Your "holier than thou" attitude is commendable though...
If anyone has left... oh well... all boards can't be " ohhh what did you wipe with today"... "that's too bad it was so rough"...
when people write about controversial topics, that can have passionate posters for either side, is better than any "sugar" board any day.
If these people who left really believed in what they wrote they would still be here... it is obvious that they just posted to see themselves in print.
posted on September 24, 2003 06:56:44 PM new
Well Tweleve there are lots of boards out there with more than 10 or so people that participate daily (some even 100's) and the posters show just as much passion as anyone who posts here but they also show a general respect as well. Sure I've poked satircal fun at plenty with an Alien, bigfoot or lost boys article. I however am not it the habit nor do I feel the need to personaly assault EVERY post I disagree with. but what the heck just for you I'll end with " if you were not truly a nazi, butt pirate dumbass you would have been able to tell what I was talking about. "
gosh I feel so passionate now !! I can see my point has been better made. thanks for the help you are truly my hero
[ edited by tomyou on Sep 24, 2003 06:58 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2003 07:18:21 PM new
It is obvious from your posting you need a hero... I might as well be it...
It is quite funny though how easily you got into name calling... after you posted how much you disliked it... if anyone missed the point of a post, it was definately you.
But I see you are just like those that you claim left (considering the amount of dual posters here I doubt it) and offer nothing of real value and just need to see your name on a thread....
Anyone is free to post any topic, but most people here want to post political threads... considering that the originator has begun the thread by name calling someone whether it be the President or other...
Oh and your idea of "satirical fun" leaves alot to be desired...
The real truth behind people who clain to have left, is that like most people, they want to post to boards where others of similar ideas post and do not really want opposing views
I see you have been registered since 1999, when this board still had moderators, in my opinion it was alot worse then and you had to always watch for the people baiting you to say something for suspension...
At least now people can mostly say what they want, you know that thing called "Freedom of Speech" and get an idea out, but it seems that idea is really only for people who want to call President Bush and others in our government names... but "oooh you hurt my feelings" if they themselves are brought to the carpet...
Well I can't speak for others but the people that left (if they really did) can stay gone and as far as the others talking about leaving "don't let the door hit ya where the good LORD split ya"...
or stay post some topics... lets see what ya got...
posted on September 24, 2003 08:57:27 PM new
Well, looks like 2 old buddys reunited, 12 and Tom
Seriously tomyou, what other boards? I mean that are respectful to posters? are you talking about the ez boards, or OTWA (which I've never been too, nor will)
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on September 24, 2003 09:52:17 PM new
tomyou, as far as I know, everyone here really likes each other, in spite of how it might look once in awhile. After awhile, you get to know what buttons to push with certain people to get them going, just like in real life. Nobody really means anything by it. I hope you'll stick around.
posted on September 24, 2003 10:58:30 PM new
I'd like to mention for the all bally-hooing that the media is left-biased, there has been one little blurb about Cheney, Haliburton, (sp*) and the amount of money defense contractors are making.
Whats up with Cheney anyway? You never see him around - he is like the ghost rider vice president! At least Gore was around, saying he invented the internet, etc.
posted on September 25, 2003 12:09:30 AM newWe took the risk, we've paid the costs and we've put our soldiers lives on the line....while they risked nothing. But they sure want to tell us how WE should be handling this.
I don't know but perhaps those countries realized that no one was prepared for the aftermath when the US was so anxious to rush in and that's why they chose not to go to war at that time?
Obviously the US does not have all the solutions to the problems that have arisen there nor do they have the money or manpower to solve them. So yes, the countries that help should have a say in how things are handled and hopefully they can all work together to make Iraq a better country.
