posted on August 13, 2004 01:28:22 PM
'a second HETEROSEXUAL marriage'!!
and 2 children to prove it.
I feel sorry for his wife(wives).
If you have any gay friend,ask them to take you to a gay bar and see how many married men are sitting in the bar after work!!
It will OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on August 13, 2004 01:33:15 PMIf you have any gay friend,ask them to take you to a gay bar and see how many married men are sitting in the bar after work!! It will OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!
Married men don't need to go out to a gay bar. If they have a computer all they need to do is find a gay chat room. You would be surprised how many "straight men" are on them.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 02:42:11 PM
No I don't think we would. But straight men going to a gay bar is what they do. Talking over the Internet is not one on one with another.
This Governor needs what he has to do for the good of the people whether he is Democrat or Republican and also for his wife. I feel he needs to get out of the lime light and that means leave immediately and leave it up to the people of NJ to elect their new Governor.
To prolong this would be hard on her, and his children. Phooey on the state of NJ. He has already seen to it that they will have a large lawsuit on their hands from the injured party. Everyone needs to get on with their lives. BTW it has been talked about for quite sometime that they thought this man was gay. Nobody would have ever known it for sure if the injured party hadn't stepped forward.
It's a sad tale for everyone. There will be no winners in this.
posted on August 13, 2004 03:18:41 PM
DrDooLittle - My take is that this really didn't have to do with his being gay at all. From what I've read many have 'suspected' it for a while now.
I think it had to do with his sexual partners blackmailing him. It's been reported he wanted some money now to keep quiet about their relationship....and stated he'd want more before the next election.
So...with all the other problems of those around him, in his administration, plus this threat....he appears to me to have decided it was best just to come out and finally admit he's gay....rather than pay the blackmail.
----------------
Yes, it was my intent to point out that he had deceived TWO wives. Put two wives at risk of a deadly disease. That is a painful thing to go through...I've known two women who have been in this situation...and it devastated their families for a number of years. Hurt in a number of ways....the promise made to be faithful....and that they wanted to have sex with a man....questioning why they weren't aware of something being wrong in their relationship....the lies and deciet....fear of what they might have 'caught'...etc. They didn't 'get over it' that easily. It was VERY tramatic for them and for their children. They all needed counseling.
posted on August 13, 2004 03:36:37 PM
There's a boy toy with a six figure job that "consults". Previously, he was connected with NJ "Homeland Security", till people started asking questions.
posted on August 13, 2004 05:01:50 PMTalking over the Internet is not one on one with another.
Libra, I think you are behind the times a little. People in online chat rooms are not looking to chat "one on one", they are looking to hook up. There is a better chance finding what you are looking for in a chat room than there is a local bar. Plus it is "safer" for those straight people that do not want to be caught in a gay bar.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 05:09:05 PMYes, it was my intent to point out that he had deceived TWO wives. Put two wives at risk of a deadly disease.
Ah yes passing judgements again now and assuming the worse. I suppose it would have been safer if the governor chose to have sex with FEMALE prostitutes behind his wife's back. I hate to break the news to you but there is something called safe sex no matter what your sexuality is. How the heck do you know what the governor did or did not do. For all we know he could have just kissed this other guy. But I suppose you want to assume he did the worst possible thing because he is gay man. I can only imagine what you are thinking he did.
That is a painful thing to go through...I've known two women who have been in this situation...and it devastated their families for a number of years. Hurt in a number of ways....the promise made to be faithful....and that they wanted to have sex with a man....questioning why they weren't aware of something being wrong in their relationship....the lies and deciet....fear of what they might have 'caught'...etc. They didn't 'get over it' that easily. It was VERY tramatic for them and for their children. They all needed counseling.
Who said life is fair. We all have some sort of pain in our life. It wouldn't have made any difference if these people cheated on their wife with another woman. They would still be feeling the same thing.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 05:37:19 PM
yeah, but logan, you make it sound like 98% of straight men are lurking in gay chat rooms? I have no idea of the percentage, but my guess would be about 10%, if that much.
posted on August 13, 2004 06:03:16 PM
Well, I happen to agree with you Linda. I wasn't sure that is what your post was saying. But I agree, I don't believe he resigned because of the gay issue entirely though. I think it is more complicated, including evidence of him awarding high paying positions to his lover, who was not qualified for them.
I do not hold his sexual preference against him. I do however hold it against him for the lies and hurt he has inflicted upon his family and his party. Drdo
posted on August 13, 2004 06:14:38 PM
logansdad - I'm sure most are aware that it's easier to get aids from having gay sex than most any other way. Yes, there are other ways....but gay sex is the most risky.
For all we know he could have just kissed this other guy. But I suppose you want to assume he did the worst possible thing because he is gay man. I can only imagine what you are thinking he did.
LOL you can imagine what I'm thinking...but I'm not allowed to imagine that he wasn't *only* kissing his gay partner is the reason he was being blackmailed by him. LOL That may make sense to you...this double standard you just proved....but I'd say if you can imagine about me...I can read a news article about them.
Don't try to defend his deceitful actions against two women. That only makes you look like you approve....*BECAUSE* he's gay and that makes the pain he's caused his wives and children acceptable. He lied...he cheated...he risked their LIVES by his actions. It's NOT okay...because it's a lifestyle YOU approve of....but then put down marriages in general for failing for some of the same reasons.
----------------
I agree, DrDoolittle....there were many reasons....and coming out of hiding his sexuality was only one. If his gay lifestyle had been the only issue....the dems would have been supporting him to the hilt....I have no doubt about that. Just let anyone try to remove him from that position because of his gay lifestyle...and they'd be crushed.
posted on August 13, 2004 07:00:51 PM
Nero fiddled will Rome burned. I wonder to what extent his energies were diverted by his dalliances? Did it actually provide the reason for his downfall? Or, did the distraction to his priorities cause poor job performance? This type of behavior in people of prominence indicates the amount of decadence in our society. He is falling on his sword just right, but that is about his only saving grace. He treated his promises, his oaths, and his purported beliefs as ephemeral. For whatever reason, he chose to live a life of pretext while espousing a life of common values. This is elitist and a flawed premise from which to direct government.
If one professes and validates one set of values publicly while exhibiting behavior that dictates a different set of values privately that is hypocritical and elitist. Examples of this type of belief include the attitude that church and religion is a panacea for the herd, but not necessary for an independent thinker such as oneself; and honoring traditional values through lip-service and public acts, while living a lifestyle that negates those pretenses.
I do not judge this person by the sexual proclivities demonstrated, but rather by the casual dis-regard for the society, yes, the village, in which one resides and the sensibilities of those one purports to care for. To some extent, society is at fault for this behavior. Does not the individual have some responsibility to society, just like a Doctor to a patient to, 'First of all do no harm?'
posted on August 13, 2004 07:09:58 PMlogansdad - I'm sure most are aware that it's easier to get aids from having gay sex than most any other way. Yes, there are other ways....but gay sex is the most risky.
If that is what you want to believe that is your opinion. According to the UNAIDS Report - 2004, men who have sex with other men make up 5 - 10% of all HIV cases worldwide. http://www.unaids.org/bangkok2004/report.html
You can continue to believe HIV is a gay disease and gay is "risky" but again you would be wrong. It is risky as long as you are unaware of how HIV is transmitted. In case you are not aware there are HIV+ people married and having sex with HIV- negative people (both straight and gay).
In recent years, AIDS infection rates have been increasing rapidly among teens and young adults. Half of all new HIV infections in the United States occur in people under 25 years of age; thousands of teens in the United States become infected each year. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the majority of new HIV cases in younger people are transmitted through unprotected sex; one third of these cases are from injection drug usage - the sharing of dirty, blood-contaminated needles. October 2003 data
Don't try to defend his deceitful actions against two women.
Who said I approved of what he did. He even admitted that he was wrong. As I said early it tooks some guts to do what he did. Some straight people can not even do that. You made his wife out to the be the victim in this mess. Society is to blame. Society is the one that puts labels on people and makes them hide who they are. Society has these expectations that everyone is supposed to live up to. You either fit into those categories or you don't. And if you don't society will be there to remind you of it.
What I don't understand if his wife suspected he was gay, why didn't she file for divorce a long time ago. Perhaps she was in it just for the money.
You can continue to deny divorce is a leading factor for the destruction of traditional marriage all you want.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 07:37:19 PM
Logan you said: You made his wife out to the be the victim in this mess. Society is to blame. Society is the one that puts labels on people and makes them hide who they are. Society has these expectations that everyone is supposed to live up to.
Logan.. Society may be blamed for labeling people, yes that is true, but HE made a personal choice to marry and father children, knowing this lifestyle was a lie. Society didn't force him to do this, he could have stayed single. Or he could have shown true courage and declared his homosexuality.
He, not society, deceived this woman and his children.
His wife was "The Victim".. as she entered the marriage in truth, unaware that she was being lied to.
I have never seen a post from you that was unjust, until now. DRdo
posted on August 13, 2004 07:58:37 PMLogan.. Society may be blamed for labeling people, yes that is true, but HE made a personal choice to marry and father children, knowing this lifestyle was a lie. Society didn't force him to do this, he could have stayed single.
Society didn't directly force him to do anything, but you can say it indirectly forced him.
His wife was "The Victim".. as she entered the marriage in truth, unaware that she was being lied to.
We are all lied to in some way or another when we enter a relationship. There are things about the person we do not know. I do not feel sorry for the wife at all. Why? because she will walk away with big fat settlement at the end of all this. You can claim victim all you want, but it is one one of those things life tosses at you.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 08:15:46 PM
Yes logansdad she will walk away but what about his children. I doubt if they will ever beable to because they will be involved with him until he is gone. Well I guess I am asuming that they will be around him and I do hope they don't desert him.
posted on August 13, 2004 08:26:41 PMbut what about his children
Only they can decide that. We do not even know if the child from the 1st marriage still sees him. For what the other posters have said about similar experiences, it all depends on the children themselves. Some don't have a problem with the situation and some do just in any other divorce where children are involved.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 13, 2004 08:48:48 PM
Logan, I applaud your brave fight for your beliefs.. but I don't agree with your callous disregard toward the wife in this situation.
Fight your fights, but don't become blind to the truth.. no matter which side of the fence it happens to be on at the time. I believe this is one instance where you cannot make a hero out of someone, solely on his outing himself.. he has liberated himself at the huge expense of the ones who loved him. Drdo
posted on August 14, 2004 05:48:09 AMThey would still be feeling the same thing.
Considering what stigma being homosexual is and how society really does not accept it... it is much worse...
As others have said his wife is the victim, because of his lifestyle choice. Of course at least he had the decency to resign so the good people of NJ would not of had to go through a recall process.
The people of NJ were also betrayed...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on August 14, 2004 06:35:42 AM
DR.Do: Logan, I applaud your brave fight for your beliefs.. but I don't agree with your callous disregard toward the wife in this situation. Fight your fights, but don't become blind to the truth.. no matter which side of the fence it happens to be on at the time.
I stand behind my belief that she is not a victim in this case. It may be against what you feel, but life is not fair. For all we know his wife could have married him because he was a poltician on the rise knowing that he was going to be making a lot of cash and be famous. This is speculation on my part but it is a possibility. But then again most women will side with the wife in a divorce anyway because the wife is always right and the man is the reason for the divorce.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 14, 2004 07:19:27 AM
Oh yes, let's put the blame for his actions, deceiving his two wives and his children, his supporters on society.
Nope....you need to put the blame for HIS actions where they belong...on HIM....not society. He made the choice to deceive.
And while you choose to use the numbers for the whole world on hiv/aids - because it makes the case as YOU wish to present it.... the facts remains that here, in the US, male to male sexual encounters is the largest cause of people getting hiv/aids - more than three times the rate of heterosexual sex.
His gay sexual relations did put his wives at much greater risk to contact hiv/aids themselves. No excusing nor denying that behavior/fact either.
The latest stats I could find on the Center for Disease Control website are as follows:
Following is the distribution of the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS among adults and adolescents by exposure category. A breakdown by sex is provided where appropriate.
Exposure Category
Male
Female
Total
Male-to-male sexual contact:
420,790
-
420,790
Injection Drug Use: 172,351
67,917
240,268
Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use:
59,719
-
59,719
Heterosexual contact:
50,793
84,835
135,628
Other*:
14,350
6,519
20,869*
Includes hemophilia, blood transfusion, perinatal, and risk not reported or not identified.
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 14, 2004 07:23 AM ]
posted on August 14, 2004 07:24:10 AM
"This is speculation on my part but it is a possibility. But then again most women will side with the wife in a divorce anyway because the wife is always right and the man is the reason for the divorce."
Well, in this case you have to say it is true for two reasons. #1 Sexual harrasement from a male employee and #2. He Said he was Gay.
Now would you stay in a marriage like that? I doubt it. Maybe she isn't going to get a settlement, doesn't she deserve it? The sad part is the children. The only losers in this case, I feel, are the children.
posted on August 14, 2004 08:32:45 AMHis gay sexual relations did put his wives at much greater risk to contact hiv/aids themselves. No excusing nor denying that behavior/fact either.
Linda, you would not know what is risky when it comes to sex since you probably have not had any in the past 40 years. If a guy gets a BJ from a woman or a man the risk is the same. Go ahead and assume the Governor had unprotected anal sex if you wish, but the truth is you don't know what he did. There is a risk involved with any type of sexual activity. Some are more riskier than others.
Following is the distribution of the estimated number of diagnoses of AIDS among adults and adolescents by exposure category. A breakdown by sex is provided where appropriate.
Your "facts" are the number of news AIDS cases. You need to get HIV first before you can get AIDS as not every HIV case turns into AIDS.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 14, 2004 09:05:52 AM
Logansdad - You are in one huge case of denial if you hold the opinion that male-to-male sex is not THE MOST risky behavior BOTH for contacting hiv and ending up with aids. The cases of hiv show the same stats - male-to-male sex is the cause of the much larger percentages of those who get aids.
Your attempt at insulting my sexual situation isn't going to change the facts on hiv/aids at all. ...But it does show part of your character to all who read your post. Pretty sad I'd say.
CALIFORNIA
Risky behavior continues to fuel likely AIDS upsurge
State surveys find increasing exposure among Californians
David Perlman, Chronicle Science Editor
Thursday, July 8, 2004
Risky sexual behavior that leads to AIDS is increasing once again among Californians, new surveys by state and University of California researchers reveal.
"We are now concerned that our progress has stalled, and in some areas we may even be losing ground," Dr. George Lemp, director of the university's AIDS Research Program, said Wednesday.
Reported rates of unprotected sex, particularly among men who have sex with men, have increased recently, and among those men HIV infection rates have increased threefold, Lemp said in an interview. The discouraging trend followed many years in which infections by HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, had been dropping steadily, he said.
Although the number of California men being treated for injection drug use -- often accompanied by dangerous needle-sharing -- dropped from nearly 50,000 cases during the first AIDS panic year of 1982 to 40,000 in 2002, the number of cocaine and crack users seeking treatment nearly doubled in that same period -- from nearly 38,000 to more than 73,000, the state survey showed.
"And that's also a worrisome sign," Lemp said, "because the use of those drugs is so often accompanied by high-risk behavior."
Thanks to the more widespread availability and use of anti-retroviral drugs in recent years, the number of people living with diagnosed cases of AIDS has increased more than tenfold from 5,000 in 1987 to about 55,000 today, Lemp said. An estimated total of 127,000 men and women in California are living with signs of HIV infection, including those with AIDS itself.
According to State HIV Education and Prevention chief Drew Johnson, "Recent data indicate increasing infections among African Americans, Latinos and Native Americans. In these groups, women as well as men who have sex with men are most affected."
Unfortunately, firm statistics on increases in HIV infection rates as well as AIDS continue to be unclear, Lemp said, and three factors muddy the numbers:
-- One is an apparent increase in the numbers of men seeking sex partners on the Internet who often don't reveal whether they are positive for the AIDS virus.
-- Another is the number of African American and Latino men having sex with men who don't identify themselves as either gay or bisexual and therefore are unlikely to be reached by prevention programs focused on those communities.
-- And still a third problem muddying the effort to sharpen AIDS and HIV statistics -- and thus impeding prevention programs -- is the rising number of threefold, their HIV infection rates are currently stable, health officials say.
"We may well be on the threshold of a new upsurge in overall HIV rates," Lemp said, "or it may already have arrived without our being aware of it. We're trying to get a firmer handle on it right now."
posted on August 14, 2004 11:32:10 AM
I am going to go out on a limb here and say I think I kind of agree with Logansdad and here are my reasons why.
What was she doing at the press conference "by his side" if she is such a victim? I think Logans could be right and they might have had an arrangement. I just find it hard to believe one spouse could hide his true sexual orientation from the other - at least for long? And if I were her, I'd be mad as hell at him, not only for the betrayal, but for f'nup both of their lives as they stand today! I would NOT be at a press conference with him. His azz would be up there alone like he took his affair and made those other decisions alone. Now maybe she is the forgiving type and really loves him - who knows? But I have to say she did not appear to look like such a victim to me. She didnt even look like she had been crying or anyhow distraught. Put on a brave face for the state and the press? maybe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Each one sees what he carries in his heart - Goethe
posted on August 14, 2004 01:09:27 PM
Logansdad - You are in one huge case of denial if you hold the opinion that male-to-male sex is not THE MOST risky behavior BOTH for contacting hiv and ending up with aids. The cases of hiv show the same stats - male-to-male sex is the cause of the much larger percentages of those who get aids.
I am going to disagree with you totally on this issue. You are going to assume that every time two men have sex that are going to have unprotected anal sex. That is your opinion and it will not change. There are a lot of gay men that do not have anal intercourse. If you want to imagine the governor going to a gay bathhouse and having unprotected sex, go right ahead. I have a difficult time excepting the fact he - as a gay man for most of his life - would be unaware of the riskier activities known to more easily transmit HIV especially given the fact that he is married to a woman. I am sure that is the last thing he would want. Unfortunately you lump all gay people into the same category.
Please explain to me how much riskier a guy giving another guy oral sex is any riskier when you give your husband/lover oral sex? How much riskier is it when your lover gives you oral sex? There is none. How much riskier is when there is mutual masturbation between a man and a woman? Not any different if the activity was done between two men.
Your homophobia is transparent Linda. You could have cared less how safe Jack Ryan and his ex-wife were when he took her to the sex clubs. You could have cared less how safe Mary Kay Latourneau was with the under age teenager when she had sex with him, but you immediately had to attack the the governor not because he cheated but because he had sex with another man. If he had cheated with another women, you would have brought up none of this.
Let's not forget that it was Magic Johnson who cheated on his wife (a straight man with another woman). Ah yes it was also Magic Johnson that contracted HIV. If I am not mistaken it was via a prostitute
You can list any statistic you want. At any give time you have increases/decreases with any particular group. I contribute any increases/decreases within particular groups due to the amount of education/HIV prevention at any given time. The fact is HIV/AIDS is a worldwide epidemic and the only way you will not contract it, is by not having sex. You can be gay or straight and reduce your risk through condoms or "less risky" activity but there is no guarantee you will not contract HIV. There have been documented cases where HIV has been transmitted through oral sex.
Just because one contracts HIV does mean that person with come down with AIDS and die. There have been people that have contracted HIV and lived a long time only to die of other causes. And yes an HIV+ person can have a regular relationship with an HIV- negative.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 14, 2004 01:19:46 PM
may be the governor is always on the receving end of an anal intercourse!!
so his wife is safe!!
why is his wife at the press conference??
who knows,may be someone will ask her to star in a movie??
remember the major of washington dc.major berry?? or something who was caught using drug with his ex model girlfriend turned FBI informant??his wife was by his side too when he repented .
not all women are worldly to spot their hubby being gay or bisexual,remember girls are supposed to be nice girls with less sexual experience.They have 2 children.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
