posted on August 24, 2004 01:19:45 PM new
Linda opinions are worthless Probably the result of a lifetime of drug abuse exaserbated by early onset altzheimers.
[ edited by davebraun on Aug 24, 2004 01:20 PM ]
posted on August 24, 2004 02:11:33 PM new
It's incredible and almost frightening how malleable some opinions are. As Kerry said in his speeech today, "They've obviously decided that some people will believe anything, no matter how fictional or how far-fetched, if they just repeat it often enough. That's how they've run their administration, that's how they're running their campaign and that's how they're going to run their convention."
posted on August 24, 2004 04:26:06 PM new
and in the article where that speech that Helen quotes above:
While emphasizing economic and other issues in public appearances, the Kerry campaign continues to battle the fallout from other veterans who have criticized him. Robert "Friar Tuck" Brant, a member of the anti-Kerry Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, said Kerry called him Sunday and asked him if he was aware of the group's activities.
"I said, `I am one, John,"' said Brant, who had appeared at a press conference announcing the group in May. "There was a moment of hesitation and he said, `I appreciate your honesty.' He said, `Well, why are you?"'
Brant said he told Kerry that he was most upset about Kerry's protests after returning from the war, when he accused soldiers of committing atrocities. "I said, `You know that's not true,"' Brant said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "That's been simmering in me about 35 years."
He said Kerry said he didn't mean everyone was involved in war atrocities. The Massachusetts senator also told Brant he was willing to meet and talk about their differences. Brant declined, saying, "I know what I know."
posted on August 24, 2004 04:48:31 PM new
What I find MOST amusing today is that while the lefties are ALWAYS stating the President didn't have a plan in dealing with the war in Iraq....even though he did and still does....
They won't recognize the irony in kerry's current predicament. Here's kerry who thought that he could use his Vietnam service as a 'badge of honor'....to convince those of his heroic service. It appears he NEVER even put a plan[/i] in place for what they HAD to have known...which was these Vietnam vets were going to come after him for all the statements he made about them in his 1971 testimony and for just how he got his medals. [b]No planning there....just hysterical reactions now...whining...demanding President Bush disown these Vets.
-----------------------
from the WSJ today:
The Kerry campaign, meanwhile, is still demanding that the president defend their man:
"Again the president did the wrong thing today,'' said Chad Clanton, a [Kerry] campaign spokesman. "He has refused to specifically condemn the smear campaign against John Kerry's military record.''
Has anyone stopped to ponder just how pathetic this is? For years we've been hearing from the Democrats that President Bush is a dummy, an illegitimate president, a liar, a military deserter, a "moral coward" and another Hitler--but now Kerry is begging Bush to use his moral authority to get him out of a fix that he himself created by running a campaign based almost entirely on "war hero" braggadocio.
Bush, of course, is wise not to do so. This isn't his battle; it's Kerry vs. Vietnam veterans--and Bush, as the Democrats never tire of reminding us, is not a Vietnam vet.
posted on August 24, 2004 05:07:04 PM new “The Fundamental Choice”
Remarks of John Kerry
For Immediate Release
New York, NY - Thank you for that generous introduction. It is an honor to be here at an institution where America’s learning has been so consistently advanced – and America’s history so often made. For nearly a century and a half, Cooper Union has produced some of our nation’s leading architects, engineers and artists. You have also helped lay the foundation and design the blueprint of our democracy. Great American values have always had a home here.
Seeing Cooper Union as a sanctuary and a force for equality, the NAACP was organized here. Seeing it as a symbol and a center of concern for others, the Red Cross was organized here. It is no accident that Thomas Edison, the man who invented the light bulb, and much of the rest of modern life, was a student here. And I can’t help but noting that at least five presidents – Grant, Cleveland, Taft, Teddy Roosevelt, and, of course, Lincoln spoke here as candidates. So I’ve been kind of looking forward to this speech.
But to me, this contest this year is not just about winning a campaign. It is about making America stronger at home and respected in the world. It is about reclaiming the character of our country and the integrity of our politics.
I am here today to call for a truthful and robust debate about our values as Americans and the fundamental choices we will make at a critical time in our history. That is what this election should be about. But from the other side, we have seen a calculated effort to evade that debate. The Bush campaign and its allies have turned to the tactics of fear and smear because they can’t talk about jobs, health care, energy independence, and rebuilding our alliances – the real issues that matter to the American people. They have no plans, no positive vision and no understanding of an urgent and undeniable truth -- a stronger America begins at home.
Next week, the Republicans will hold their convention here in New York. You should be proud of all you have done to prepare for and to protect this event. In the post 9/11 world, New Yorkers, more than most Americans, understand the importance of doing everything we can to make our country safer and more secure. Your city and your first responders have led in that effort and I applaud you for it.
The world will listen to what the Republicans say when they come here. But words, slogans, and personal attacks cannot disguise what they have done – and left undone. They are going to say that we’ve turned the corner; that the job is getting done. They are even going to claim, as they already have, that this is the best economy of our lifetimes. They have obviously decided that some people will believe anything, no matter how fictional or how far-fetched, if they just repeat it often enough. That’s how they have run their administration; that’s how they’re running their campaign and that’s how they will run their convention. I believe the American people are smarter than that. You can’t cover up reality with a few empty slogans. You can’t lead America by misleading the American people.
I don’t believe that four years of lost jobs, lower wages, higher health care costs, higher tuitions and tax cuts for the few are the best we can do. America can do better. And we will.
While our opponents have focused on false reassurance and false attacks, John Edwards and I have traveled across this country, listening and responding to the hopes and concerns of the American people. On front porches, in town squares, in open fields and great cities like this, families have gathered to tell us what matters most to them.
They tell us to make sure that their sons and daughters in uniform risking their lives half a world away come home to a country where they can have a chance to live out their dreams – to find a good paying job, the chance to start their own business, a home they can pay for, affordable health care, the chance to send their kids to college.
The American people have also told us that they want a country that lives up to its ideals of responsibility, community, and opportunity for all. In the end, their concerns, like this election, are really about values. For four years, we’ve heard a lot of talk in Washington about values. But values are not just words. They’re what we live by. They’re the choices we make. Our values are how we define the difference between right and wrong. And ultimately, this election is not just a choice between Democrats and Republicans, but between what is right for America and policies that are wrong for the American people.
The fundamental choice we face comes down to this: Because a strong America begins at home, as President, I will be a champion for the middle class and those struggling to join it.
But this administration has weakened our middle class, weakened our economy, neglected the crisis of health care and turned away from the American dream of growth and opportunity for all.
Every step of the way, George W. Bush has put the narrow interests of the few ahead of the interests of most Americans.
The middle class has always been the moral and economic backbone of this nation. That's why Franklin Roosevelt signed the G.I. Bill to help people go to college, buy a house, and build their wealth. Under Bill Clinton, we created 23 million new jobs, lifted 7 million Americans out of poverty, and sent millions more Americans to college. The middle class built this nation. They work hard, pay their bills, and do right by their families. Our country ought to do right by them.
Today, there is no more powerful example of the fundamental choice we face in this election than the issue of the economy.
The Bush administration blamed a weak economy on events out of their control.
Then they made a big promise of six million new jobs by the middle of 2004. They, in fact, have lost 1.8 million jobs. So now they offer another strategy: denial and attack. And as we will hear at their convention – the pretense that they finally have a plan for jobs.
But this is the reality: No jobs. No record they’re willing to run on. And no real plans for the future.
And you can’t make up for four years in a few days of a convention and a few weeks of campaigning.
They say our economy has turned a corner. That’s not what John Edwards and I are hearing from people from one end of this country to the other.
America can do better. And the fundamental choice voters face is this: do we accept an economy that benefits the special interests or do we want an economy that works for the middle class?
It is a choice between an administration that says it’s right to reward companies for shipping American jobs overseas – and a new leadership that will close those tax loopholes and provide incentives to create the good paying jobs of the future here in the United States of America.
It is a choice between the first Administration since Herbert Hoover to preside over a net loss of jobs – or new leadership with a plan to create jobs that pay people more, not $9,000 less than they earned before. Jobs where after a week’s work, people can actually pay their bills, provide for their children, and lift up the quality of their lives.
The choice in this election is between an administration that has turned the largest surpluses in American history into the largest deficits and new leadership with a real plan to cut the deficit in half in the next four years. We will do it by passing the reforms John McCain and I have fought for to end corporate welfare – and by making government live by the same rules our families have to follow: pay as you go.
And both fairness and fiscal responsibility depend on another fundamental choice -- between tax cuts for the few and tax cuts for the middle class. Should we continue a failed fiscal policy that says to middle class families: Tax cuts for Halliburton and Enron and those who make more than $200,000 a year are more important than tax cuts for you?
As President, I will put the middle class first. John Edwards and I have a plan to cut taxes for the middle class and working families – to help them pay for health care, child care, and sending a son or daughter to college.
When we talk about the economy, we talk about jobs. But there is another side to the economy where there is a fundamental choice – and that is health care. When health care is more expensive…when co-pays and deductibles go through the roof…businesses, especially small businesses, are burdened by staggering health care costs. And that makes it harder to hire workers, harder to grow and harder to expand.
In the last four years, four million people have lost their health insurance. 44 million Americans are now without any health coverage at all. And middle class families are struggling to afford health costs that are going through the roof. Today, we have an administration that puts the interests of HMOs and big drug companies over the interests of patients and seniors and health care providers.
In a Kerry-Edwards Administration, we will see to it that that America is no longer the only industrialized nation in the world that doesn’t understand that health care is not a privilege for the wealthy, the connected and the elected – it is a right for every single American.
We have a plan to get the greed and waste out of the system – and save the average family up to $1,000 a year in their premiums. At the same time, we will make health care affordable and accessible for all. Under our plan, you will get to pick your own doctors – and doctors and patients, not insurance company bureaucrats, will make medical decisions. You will be able to buy less expensive medicines from countries like Canada. And instead of this Administration’s multi-billion dollar windfall for the big drug companies, we will pass a real prescription drug benefit for all seniors.
This election is also a choice between a country where men and women who work and save all their lives suddenly find their pensions disappearing into thin air and the executives who looted them bailing out on golden parachutes. Or leadership that says everybody in America – from the White House to the boardroom to Main Street – has a responsibility to play by the rules, obey the law and treat people with dignity.
On almost every issue before us, we face the same fundamental choice – between the narrow interests of the few and the future of the vast majority of Americans. It is a choice between an anti-science policy that gives in to right-wing pressures – or new leadership that believes in science and the stem cell research that can treat and cure disease and save millions of lives. It is a choice between holding secret meetings with polluters in the White House to rewrite our environmental laws – or protecting the air our children breathe and the water they drink.
It is a choice between siding with big oil and making America independent of Mideast oil. When we only have 3 percent of the world’s oil reserves and we depend on foreign nations for 61 percent of what we consume, we can’t drill our way out of an energy crisis. We have to invent our way out of it.
John Edwards and I have a plan to invest in new technologies, alternative fuels, and the vehicles of the future so we can achieve energy independence of Middle East oil in ten years. This is our choice: We want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation, not the Saudi Royal family.
I have spoken often in this campaign about national security – about rebuilding and leading strong alliances to find and get the terrorists before they get us. I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President. But I also know that we can’t be strong abroad unless we’re strong at home.
And that depends not only on new policies – as important as they are – but on the most basic choice we will make this year about what kind of country we are. We have to decide between a leadership that seeks to divide us and a leadership that brings people together. It is a choice between a White House that only talks with those it agrees with…that sees us only as red states and blue states and a leadership that honors the rich diversity of all of our people and sees us as One America – red, white and blue.
When Abraham Lincoln was here at Cooper Union in 1860 to decry the continued spread of slavery, he spoke in tones of strength and humility. He said then: “Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.”
My duty, as I understand it, is to be a President who stands with middle class families in their hopes and their struggles…a President who has a plan to strengthen our economy…a President who knows a stronger America begins at home.
My duty, as I understand it, is to be a President and commander-in-chief who finds the truth and tells the truth instead of misleading the American people, hiding behind front groups, saying anything and doing anything to avoid the real issues that matter like jobs, health care and the war in Iraq.
My duty, as I understand it, is to fight for opportunity for all, and special privileges for none – so that every child, every parent, and every worker in America has an equal shot at living up to their God-given potential. A president who puts the middle class first puts their values first: hard work, respect for the truth and a commitment to what is right for Americans.
That is the kind of President I intend to be. And that is what I have fought for all my public life. As a prosecutor, I fought for victim’s rights. As a Senator, I was a leader in the fight to put 100,000 new police on our streets. I broke with many in my own party to support a balanced budget. I stood with John McCain to find out the truth about what happened to our POWs and MIAs in Vietnam.
And I’ve always stood up for our veterans who stood on the frontlines for us. I am proud that I wrote the legislation that finally provided help and health care to the victims of Agent Orange.
I am also proud of the role I played in the landmark law that provides health care to the children of working families.
So, if people want to know the real choice in this election, just look at the record. For more than 20 years, I’ve fought for the middle class and those struggling to join it. But time after time, President Bush has sided with the narrow interests of the few.
Next week at Madison Square Garden, the Republican convention will focus on slogans, excuses, and attack politics. And mark my words, they’ll bend over backwards with last minute proposals and last minute promises to make up for all they haven’t done and to pretend they’re not who they are. In fact, pretending to be something they’re not may be the single most consistent thing about them, because that’s what they’ve been doing all along.
But the American people want truthful answers and real plans. They want leadership that will really put the middle class first. And that’s why this is the most important election of our lifetime.
America must do better and we will.
My fellow citizens, we’re the optimists. We’re the can do people. For us, this is a country of the future. And we believe that for America to be truly America, it must be a country of opportunity for all Americans.
So, it’s time for an honest debate about the choices we face. It’s time to reach for the next dream and look to the next horizon. For America, the hope is there. The sun is rising. Our best days are still to come.
posted on August 24, 2004 07:05:01 PM newthe President didn't have a plan in dealing with the war in Iraq....even though he did and still does....
His plan was that he wanted to be "on offense not defense" according to the 9/11 report. His plan what ever it was did not include how to end the war, only how to start one. He has yet to show how he will end the war. Even Bush Sr. said a regime change in Iraq would be a disaster. Little Bush should have listened to daddy.
And he did lie about the war. He said Iraq has connected to 9/11 when in fact he was planning the war way before 9/11.
For years we've been hearing from the Democrats that President Bush is a dummy, an illegitimate president, a liar, a military deserter, a "moral coward" and another Hitler
Why should we stop telling the truth now? Don't foregt to add looks like a monkey to your list and can't deliver a speach without a script to your list of attributes.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 25, 2004 06:55:24 AM new
The new set of zogby polls show kerry leading in 14 battleground states. Bush is leading in 2. This issue has not hurt kerry at all....infact I would bet this has fired up the base voters, and a good chunk of independent voters as well. When this blows over its back to issues where bush is done.
posted on August 25, 2004 07:49:38 AM new Dallas News from Kos
Carry on this discussion long enough, and voters will figure out who deserves respect and who doesn't. So, if the Republicans are smart, they'll change the subject and get back to friendly terrain - making the case that President Bush has acted heroically in leading the country and the world after Sept. 11, 2001.
That's a debate Republicans can win. The one they're engaged in at the moment will, sooner or later, blow up in their face.
Don't get me wrong. I'm still sick of hearing about Vietnam. As someone born in 1967, I consider it a blessing to not have to carry around that baggage. And I still think this is an absolutely insane way to go about picking a president, or even a vice president.
But that doesn't mean I'm anxious to rewrite history so that the valiant are painted as cowards and the cowardly as valiant.
posted on August 25, 2004 07:56:57 AM new Even Bush Sr. said a regime change in Iraq would be a disaster. Little Bush should have listened to daddy.
"Incalculable human and political costs" would have been the result, the senior Bush has said, if his administration had pushed all the way to Baghdad and sought to overthrow Saddam Hussein after the U.S.-led coalition ousted the Iraqi army from Kuwait during the Persian Gulf war in 1991.
posted on August 25, 2004 09:29:52 AM new
The chief legal counsel to the Bush campaign, Ben Ginsberg, resigned today after it was revealed that he was the chief lawyer for the Swift boat veterans group....linking the group directly with the White House. This is another case of mismanagement by George Bush.who had a chance to call a halt to this smear group but did nothing while falsely claiming that he had no ties with the group.
posted on August 25, 2004 09:46:20 AM new
helen's example of the lawyer working both for the political candidate AND the 527 groups that support them....is absolutely no different than what a kerry lawyer said is done on the kerry side. But again...it's acceptable by the lefties when their side does it....but NOT when the Bush side does it. Just more hyprocricy.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Ginsberg is the second member of the Bush campaign to resign over ties to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Kerry filed a federal complaint last week alleging the Bush campaign is illegally coordinating with the group. Kerry campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill said Ginsberg's resignation ``only confirms the extent of those connections.''
posted on August 25, 2004 10:15:31 AM new
This is not the article I read which quoted a kerry lawyer saying he did/does the same thing....but it is the first that came up on a google search. From MSNBC hours old
[i]The type of work Ginsberg has done has not been deemed improper by Kerry's campaign.
The law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry.
Ginsberg said that Joseph Sandler is a lawyer for both the Democratic National Committee and for the independent group MoveOn.org, which has run advertisements attacking Bush.
------
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Ginsbergs resignation raises the question, why at this time did he resign? Obviously, he perceives a conflict which has been discovered. You don't know, Linda in what capacity Sandler served the Moveon organization. He certainly wasn't advising a group involved in a smear campaign. Unlike Bush, Kerry nixed inappropriate ads immediately.
posted on August 25, 2004 10:42:06 AM new
helen - Your selective memory is working overtime. If you look back, almost a year ago, it was the BUSH administration that appealed to the FEC about all these 527s being against what the McCain/Feingold bill was intended to do. But the complaint they filed was denied.
So...now groups are doing the same for their side.... EXACTLY like what the kerry side has allowed, and STILL won't denounce that HIS supporters are doing.
There's NO way, helen, you can possibly deny it's exactly the same thing. Outside groups are supporting their candiate. PERIOD.
another article on firstamendment.com speaks to the same issue.
---
Bush campaign lawyer helping anti-Kerry vets
An election lawyer for President Bush who also has been advising a veterans group running TV ads against Democrat John Kerry resigned today from Bush's campaign.
"I cannot begin to express my sadness that my legal representations have become a distraction from the critical issues at hand in this election," Benjamin Ginsberg wrote in a resignation letter to Bush released by the campaign.
"I feel I cannot let that continue, so I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, doesn't distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing."
Ginsberg's acknowledgment last evening that he was providing legal advice to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth marked the second time in days that an individual associated with the Bush-Cheney campaign had been connected to the group, which Kerry accuses of being a front for the Republican incumbent's re-election effort.
The Bush campaign and the veterans' group have said repeatedly that there is no coordination, and the campaign repeated that statement yesterday.
Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race at the same time.
Ginsberg's dual role has drawn attention because the Swift Boat Veterans group ran an ad accusing Kerry of exaggerating his Vietnam War record, an issue that has dominated the campaign since early August.
Earlier, Ginsberg said the swift-boat vets group "came to me and said, 'We have a point of view we want to get into the First Amendment debate right now. There's a new law. It's very complicated. We want to comply with the law, will you keep us in the bounds of the law?'" Ginsberg told the Associated Press. "I said yes, absolutely, as I would do for anyone."
Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group, or vice versa, and doesn't advise the group on ad strategies.
"They have legal questions and when they have legal questions I answer them," Ginsberg said. He contended that by offering legal advice to both the Bush campaign and the swift-boat group, he has done nothing different than other election lawyers in Washington, including attorneys for Kerry and the Democratic National Committee who have also advised soft-money groups. Representing campaigns, parties and outside groups simultaneously is legal and allowed under the law and by the FEC, he said.
"The truth is there is only a handful of lawyers who live and breathe this law. And so because the coordination rules do not include legal services among the prohibited coordinated activities, we provide legal service," Ginsberg said.
Larry Noble, head of the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics campaign watchdog group and former FEC general counsel, said it was true that serving as a lawyer for both a campaign and a soft-money group isn't considered automatic evidence of coordination under commission rules, but added that it doesn't mean the FEC won't look at the situation.
Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and a group running anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org, said there was nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once.
----------------
And just wait, helen, there's a new 527 group that's just about ready to start their work on Edwards....and his 'trail lawyer' buddies.
Soon we'll be listening to you whining about them too.....while FULLY support all the 527 groups that support kerry.
Imo, it's either okay for both parties to do...or it's not okay for either party to do. You one the other hand, continue to show your inability to have the 'game rules' equal.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on August 25, 2004 10:42:07 AM newThe law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry. Ginsberg said that Joseph Sandler is a lawyer for both the Democratic National Committee and for the independent group MoveOn.org, which has run advertisements attacking Bush.
Just because a lawyer works for a firm that represents Kerry does not mean he is working on the Kerry campaign directly.
Ginsberg stepped resigned because he admitted working on the Bush campaign directly and representing the Swift Boat Vets.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 25, 2004 10:46:37 AM new
We have two threads on this topic. Are you going to copy paste reams of material on both threads, Linda? I'll just wait until you decide where you want to paste your articles.
posted on August 25, 2004 10:48:54 AM new
Here we go again, logansdad....each and everytime you ask for proof of a statement I make...I give it to you.
But, funny...you always continue to make some point that YOU CAN'T PROVE....that YOU have no DOCUMENTATION that backs your statements.
I will never give you proof of my statements again...for that reason. So...don't bother asking any more.
When you can back up your own accusations.....I'll be VERY surprised.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on August 25, 2004 10:55:58 AM new
ROFLMHO @ your statement, helen.
YOU, of all people, who have yourself taken your posts from thread to thread, even when they have nothing to do with the other thread topic.....now mentioning my following in your own footsteps.
how funny you are helen....and such a hyprocite.
Again...it's your double standard....it's okay when you do it...not okay when for others to do the same when two different threads with exactly the same subject are posted.
get over yourself helen....your true nature is really showing.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on August 25, 2004 11:24:00 AM new
I guess for Kerry it is do as I say and not do as I do.
Just because a lawyer works for a firm that represents Kerry does not mean he is working on the Kerry campaign directly
and if you believe that statement I think you are drinking something.
Now what is that all about. So you denounce Ginsberg but it is all right for the Kerry campaign.
Is this a double standard? It seems like double standards are everywhere here.
Have you noticed the tone in Kerry's voice has gotten softer and he is not ponding or shouting any more. Maybe the facts as they are coming out by election time Kerry won't be speaking much. Bring on Teresa and she will certainly end it all.
posted on August 25, 2004 12:41:29 PM new
Here we go again, logansdad....each and everytime you ask for proof of a statement I make...I give it to you.
Linda will you get off your damn high horse. I posted my comment before your proof was posted on the other thread. Based on what you said I agree both should step down. YOU HAPPY NOW.
But, funny...you always continue to make some point that YOU CAN'T PROVE....that YOU have no DOCUMENTATION that backs your statements.
I will never give you proof of my statements again...for that reason. So...don't bother asking any more.
When you can back up your own accusations.....I'll be VERY surprised.
Even when I have proved you wrong in the past you keep denying the truth. No matter is posted you will continue to believe what you want. If it will make you happy don't bother posting anything for me then. NOW GO DO A GOOGLE SEARCH ON THAT.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 25, 2004 01:21:21 PM new
Once again, logansdad, you're incorrect. The post I was saying even when I give you proof....was the one you responded to. Your response what why I said what I did about you not believing proof I presented.
logansdad posted on August 25, 2004 10:42:07 AM
c&p of my post: The law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry.
Ginsberg said that Joseph Sandler is a lawyer for both the Democratic National Committee and for the independent group MoveOn.org, which has run advertisements attacking Bush.
THEN you said: Just because a lawyer works for a firm that represents Kerry does not mean he is working on the Kerry campaign directly."
When I had already pointed out they did....in THIS thread...
posted on August 25, 2004 02:24:18 PM new
Linda this is what your post said on this thread:
The law firm of Perkins Coie represents the Kerry campaign, and Robert Bauer, an election lawyer at the firm, represents the anti-Bush 527 group America Coming Together, which has been mobilizing voters for Kerry.
Ginsberg said that Joseph Sandler is a lawyer for both the Democratic National Committee and for the independent group MoveOn.org, which has run advertisements attacking Bush.
The above statements do not give any proof of what these people did. Rober Bauer was an election lawyer at the firm which also represented American Coming Together. Where does it say he was senior counsel or served as counsel to both groups. It doesn't It just says he worked as a lawyer which represents the Kerry campaign. The firm could employ 1,000s of election lawyers representing may different firms. It doesn't even say what an election lawyer does or does not do. Just because he is an election lawyer for one firm does not mean he would have the same responsibilities and duties of an election lawyer at another firm.
Sandler is a lawyer for the DNC. Again what kind of lawyer, who knows your post does not say. He could be a copyright lawyer for the DNC for all we know and again it does not say he worked on the Kerry campaign. He could be representing Moveon in a different capacity.
Slice and dice your proof anyway you want, but your proof in this thread did not give me what I needed to make me change my mind
Here is your post from the other thread:
General Counsel Mark E. Elias
Partner at Perkins Coie. Also Counsel to the DSCC. Duke University School of Law, J.D., with honors, and Duke University, M.A. in Political Science, both 1993; Hamilton College, B.A. in Government and History, 1990.
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The above post (which was on the other thread) gives more information as to what Mark Elias did for his firms and the group he represented.
Once again I will state based on the posting on this thread your "proof" meant nothing to me when I read it. It was only after reading the post from the other thread did I agree with your argument that they lawyers have done the same thing.
Ginsberg even admitted to serving as counsel to both groups which in my opinion means he represented both groups. This is completely different than what your "original proof" posted here shows.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
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YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
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We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on August 25, 2004 02:39:15 PM new
Yes, logansdad, I understand that dems need to be spoon fed, have things spelled out for them, and appear to be incapable of doing their own searches to put two and two together.
Anyone could have found out, by using the names I provided that they were both affiliated with the 527 groups AND work for kerry's campaign. well....most people....not all.
