bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 07:39:08 PM new
I think both men acquited themselves well. Surprisingly well on Bush's part who only produced one Bushism ("if he had been president Saddam would still be inpower & the world would be a better place!" .
However, I think that Kerry did better than Bush, who had a tendency to sound defensive with his voice becoiming high & strident during rebuttals.
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Reamond
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posted on October 8, 2004 07:46:32 PM new
Bush was staggered in the first round and never really recovered.
Bush did better than Miami, but then if Bush just showed up and used his alloted time he would have been better than the first debate.
Kerry moved himself even farther ahead in the polls with tonight's performance.
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on October 8, 2004 07:54:56 PM new
Wow! Bush beat the hell out of kerry on his own turf, domestic issues. Kerry tried to put up a good fight but it wasn't even close. I'll bet Bush gets a 5 point boost in the polls.
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 07:59:59 PM new
Just shows that various people will view things in drastically different lights. 
To me, Kerry was wiping the floor with Bush, who looked foolish regarding the import of drugs, couldn't refute the fact that his tax cuts were beneficial more to the rich than the average citizen, who couldn't refute that he has screwed up No Child Left Behind, who denied the impact that certainportions of the Patriot Act have had on our civil rights, etc., etc., etc.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:04:04 PM new
Whoa! I just went to the MSNBC site (I watched the debate on MSNBC) to indicate who I thought won the debate, and here are the results so far:
Who won the debate? * 270227 responses
Pres. Bush 23%
Sen. Kerry 77%
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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Linda_K
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:06:01 PM new
I thought of all of the lefties here when, during the debate when kerry spoke about abstinence saying he and teresa would council them about abstinence. I figured a few here might have choaked over that.
I really liked the debate format much more this time...but still feel some frustration that the alloted times aren't nearly long enough.
And I think President Bush did extremely well tonight. Hit home more than once about what kerry says vs how he's voted. Recommend people check out his record. That'll show who's not being truthful....especially on defense and intelligence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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MAH645
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:07:29 PM new
I thought Bush did much better this debate. I'd still like to know how Kerry can guarantee that everything he does will go the way he wants it to,and how is he going to pay for all these big plans he has. Personally it scares the hell out of me even thinking about him being in charge of foreign policy. I say the other countries will see another Clinton.
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CBlev65252
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:08:20 PM new
Bush did do better than the last time, but Kerry still wiped the floor with him. You heard "ouch" in my living room a few times to some of Kerry's responses to Bush's comments. Kerry was more poised and looked more presidential. Bush, IMO, didn't look very presidential at all. Too much joking around. BTW, he did show ownership of a timber company on his taxes. He only more recently changed the $87 to royalites on his taxes.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
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kiara
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:11:01 PM new
Bush did a much better job this time but he came across as almost too desperate. He played the dummy many times with his lame jokes and silly laugh and goofy expressions and it made Kerry look even more intelligent.
Bush seemed excitable and on the edge whereas Kerry was the thinker and seemed so steadfast and strong in his beliefs. Bush looked like he would go off any minute, acted way too anxious to talk and was not a man in control and he didn't have any plans for the future. Unfortunately they say that a good many voters identify with the not-too-bright image that Bush portrays so he will get the votes from them.
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:12:19 PM new
It was also a telling blow when Bush said that he did have allies and that we aren't going it alone...but couldn't refute Kerry's observation that, after us the the UK, the state of Missouri had more population & resources than the remaining allies.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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Reamond
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:12:32 PM new
I really liked the way Bush was unable to answer the question " name 3 mistakes you've made in office and what you would now do differently".
He totally dodged the question.
I think towards the end Bush was considering voting for Kerry.
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Reamond
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:16:36 PM new
Missouri had more population & resources than the remaining allies.
I don't think he said Missouri had more people and resources, I think he said Missouri had sent more troops than any of our "allies" after the UK and the next largest contributor.
Some of these allies have less than 50 people there.
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Bear1949
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:17:21 PM new
Hell ALL the liberal media will be saying (again) that kerry won. What did you expect.
Bush was relaxed and calm. Got the audience to laugh several times, once at major expense to ole woody kerry.
Drove home kerrys liberal stances and absenteeism on Senate votes, his 20 years of less than notable accomplishments in the Senate.
kerry tax cuts, what a laugh...
Hey, hey
Ho, ho
Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
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Helenjw
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:17:31 PM new
That was great...John Kerry was the clear winner. He made his plans clear and I'm confident that he will be a great President.
Bush couldn't offer a plan to change any of his failed programs including the war with Iraq.
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Bear1949
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:19:23 PM new
Who won the debate? * 270227 responses
And that was from 2 hours before the debate started
Hey, hey
Ho, ho
Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
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Twelvepole
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:20:24 PM new
Having listened on the radio... President Bush wooped some ass tonight... kerry sounded defeated and flummoxed many times...
It will be close race, I have no fear people will do the right thing and reelect President Bush...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
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fenix03
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:22:09 PM new
Actually Linda- I think that what he said was something that liberals and pro abortion activists respect. Although he personally and religiously does not agree with abortion he cannot allow his personal belief system overrule that fact that it is a legal option in this country.
Personally I object to the fact that I pay the same taxes that an anti abortionist pays in this country and my opinion is ignored regarding a legal issue because it is clashes with a moral view of our president.
And BTW - Kerrys advisors missed a great opportunity tonight. I am betting he was not briefed on the results announced in the past day or two regarding positive results from experiments introducing fetal stem cells into the hearts of mice with a genetic heart defect. Bringing up that finding would have been tremendous. Why is no one talking about the fact that NONE of the existing lines comes from African Americans or Latinos when there are health issues that are more prevelent in those groups? Why is no one talking about the fact that our best medical research minds are leaving the country in order to be able to do this research?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Bear1949
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:24:33 PM new
Linda, I loved that part where he said he was a devout Catholic.
Since when do devout Catholic's divorce as he said he is from his 1st wife. Isn't that one of the greatest of all Catholic sins?
Hey, hey
Ho, ho
Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
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Bear1949
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:26:14 PM new
Pres bush had kerry stuttering & all shook up.
Go George....
Hey, hey
Ho, ho
Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
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kraftdinner
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:30:04 PM new
No Bear. War is the greatest Catholic sin.
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crowfarm
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:42:39 PM new
Sheesh kraft, I was just strolling down the posts and was going to answer poobear with your exact words!
Don't you love it when he makes comments on things he knows nothing and more about.
Ha! Thousands of catholics are divorced and Gee whiz, the church STILL accepts their donations...big of them.
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crowfarm
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:44:51 PM new
What's that bush head bobbing thing...a nervous tic, a dry drunk thing.... a Texas thing....yuck what IS that?
Oh, Kerry kicked butt again.....and the next one is on the ECONOMY!??????????
Slaughter!
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Linda_K
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:44:52 PM new
I know bear, plus he again just slipped that little mention of his service in there too.
----------------
fenix - Here's what he said that I was referring to.
DEGENHART: Senator Kerry, suppose you are speaking with a voter who believed abortion is murder and the voter asked for reassurance that his or her tax dollars would not go to support abortion, what would you say to that person?
KERRY: I would say to that person exactly what I will say to you right now.
First of all, I cannot tell you how deeply I respect the belief about life and when it begins. I'm a Catholic, raised a Catholic. I was an altar boy. Religion has been a huge part of my life. It helped lead me through a war, leads me today.
But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can't do that.
But I can counsel people. I can talk reasonably about life and about responsibility. I can talk to people, as my wife Teresa does, about making other choices, and about abstinence, and about all these other things that we ought to do as a responsible society."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
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fenix03
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:50:35 PM new
Linda - I watched it and I have no problem with what he does as part of his personal beliefs. The reason I, and I believe most pro choice voters, have no problem with his statement is because of this line....
But I can't take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn't share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can't do that.
He aknowledges that there is a difference between what he himself believes and what the law of our land allows and does not act as though his personal beliefs take precedence over the law
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Reamond
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posted on October 8, 2004 08:59:30 PM new
I checked my video of the debate and I was right---
THE MILITARY PERSONEL FROM MISSOURI IN IRAQ WOULD BE THE THIRD LARGEST CONTINGENT THERE IF MISSOURI WERE ONE ON THE "ALLIES".
Kerry has exactly the right position on abortion vs personal moral beliefs.
I beleive I mentioned on another thread about knowing the difference between private moralty and public policy.
Kerry stated the difference perfectly clear for those with half a brain.
I guess that's why Bush didn't understand what Kerry said.
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 09:05:01 PM new
CNN Poll:
Who won the second presidential debate?
President Bush 18% 35081 votes
John Kerry 80% 158281 votes
Evenly matched 2% 3671 votes
Total: 197033 votes
FOXNEWS Poll:
Who won Friday night's presidential debate?
a. President Bush (32%) 41,256
b. Senator Kerry (67%) 86,144
c. I did not watch (1%) 527
d. None of the above (0%) 316
total votes 128,243
(Wow--doesn't anyone use FoxNews.com?)
ABC News Poll:
Who Won? 10/8/04
Kerry 44%
Bush 41
Tie 13
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 09:06:02 PM new
Thanks, Reamond, for clearing that up 
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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Reamond
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posted on October 8, 2004 09:08:24 PM new
Geeeezzz bunnicula ---- with those numbers, KERRY MAY HAVE DELIVERED THE KNOCK OUT BLOW TONIGHT !!!!!
Thanks, Reamond, for clearing that up
Don't mention it. It is an amazing stat though that shows again how Bush distorts the truth.
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profe51
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posted on October 8, 2004 09:11:32 PM new
Since when do devout Catholic's divorce as he said he is from his 1st wife.
Devout Catholics divorce all the time. I was a devout Catholic when I divorced. I know lots who have.
Isn't that one of the greatest of all Catholic sins?
Divorce isn't a sin at all.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
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bunnicula
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posted on October 8, 2004 09:14:13 PM new
MSNBC's poll has changed a bit after an hour, and with more people responding: there are now 636115 responses, and Kerry is leading with 71% over Bush's 29%
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
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