posted on October 23, 2004 05:10:26 PM new
Linda, the U.N.'s approval was only a small part. Canada wanted proof that Iraq was an immediate threat because the U.N. inspectors found no signs of womd.
Great posts Kiara!
[ edited by kraftdinner on Oct 23, 2004 05:20 PM ]
posted on October 23, 2004 05:32:53 PM new
Hi Kraft.
As you can see, this is another topic where Linda has turned the discussion to Canada.
I wish she would realize that I am just another voice on a message board and that I am not here to represent or defend Canada's actions in this world as I have very little control over what they do.
Neither am I here to defend Germany as I know very little about that country. I just hate to see constant propaganda from such an uninformed source.
posted on October 23, 2004 05:38:38 PM new
Hey Linda- why don't you list each of those powerhouse countries in Bush's "coalition" contributions to the occupation of Iraq ?
The "25000" troops you say they have sent is a misrepresentation too.
Including as "troops" humanitarian aid workers who may be in the military doesn't count as combat troops.
In this "grand coalition" the United States is taking 90% of the casualties and paying 90% of the other costs.
With a coalition like this, we might as well be there alone, the costs would be the same.
posted on October 23, 2004 05:54:51 PM new
LoL Kiara! Want my opinion? I think you're doing a great job representing Canada. If Linda thinks you're the owner or Queen of Canada, so be it. When you asked Septembermom if she was from Canada, Linda spoke up and said you don't have to live in a country to understand it's workings, yet when one of us says anything about the U.S., she gets mad at us! I get the feeling she's trying to level the playing field by getting her digs in about Canada, as that's what she thinks we're trying to do to the U.S. Oh well.
posted on October 23, 2004 05:59:08 PM new
Kiara, I admire your remarkable ability to maintain your cool while facing such a barrage of irrelevant and bogus information.
posted on October 23, 2004 10:57:02 PM new
Canada and a Canadian have been implicated in the Iraq oil-for-food-program....whether any totally clueless Canadians or American's wish to believe it or not.
-------------------
The individual's name is Arthur Millholland, president of Oilexco Ltd., a junior oil company based in Calgary.....and his name is one at least three lists that different investigators have made.
------------------
The French Connection
Just weeks ago, Boutros-Ghali was awarded the prestigious Order of Canada. Only nine foreigners have been so honoured, and even as the former UN Secretary General was receiving the award, some Canadian officials were calling it "strange" because the Rwandan genocide happened under his watch as UN Secretary General. It was under Boutros-Ghali's direction that the UN 420-page Our Global Neighbourhood, which produced the blueprint for global governance, was published.
[i]When Boutros-Ghali left the UN, he went on to head the Francophonie, the organization of French-speaking nations.
It gets worse. Canadians are also said to have made oil deals with Saddam, and ties with the Canadian Company involved go all the way up to Prime Minister Paul Martin's office[/i].
[i]A man called Benon Sevan may be the UN kingpin in the oil-for-food program.
In the Canadian connection, it's a man called Paul Desmaris. Desmaris is the largest shareholder and director of TotalFinaElf, the largest corporation in France, which held tens of billions of dollars in contracts with the deposed regime of Saddam Hussein[/i].
[i]Martin replaced Prime Minister Jean Chretien last December. Chretien's daughter, France is married to Andre Desmaris, son of Paul Desmaris. Martin maintains powerful UN connections through Annan's special UN advisor Maurice Strong. In fact, Maurice Strong, who also happens to be the architect of the Kyoto Protocol, hired Martin in the 1960s to work for Paul Desmaris Sr.
According to respected Financial Post columnist Diane Francis, "In 1974, Desmaris made Martin president of Canada Steamship Lines and then in 1981, he made him spectacularly rich by selling the company to him and a partner for $180 million. Martin's shipping company is estimated to be worth about $424 million, making him the 63rd richest person in Canada[/i]."
[i]Shortly after his arrival in the Prime Minister's office, Martin gave the company to his three sons.
Canadian columnists have lamented that Canada Steamship Lines has been the recipient of hundreds of thousands from the Liberal government in Ottawa. In order to escape Canadian taxes, ships operated by Canada Steamship lines fly flags of convenience rather than the Canadian flag[/i].
At the United Nations, it's not only a global world; it's the proverbial small one.
Canada Free Press founding editor Judi McLeod is an award-winning journalist with 25 years experience in the print media. A former Toronto Sun columnist, she also worked for the Kingston Whig Standard and the former Brampton Daily Times.
---------------
There are several others that mention Canada too. This is one from the Washington Post.
1,300 Oil Vouchers Begin to Tell Story
Hussein Courted A World of Nations, Firms, Individuals
By R. Jeffrey Smith and Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, October 8, 2004; Page A30
The immense scope of an Iraqi effort in the late 1990s to curry political support for ending an international trade embargo is reflected in a list of more than 1,300 oil "vouchers" that then-President Saddam Hussein gave to more than a hundred corporations, foreign officials and political parties stretching from North America to Asia, according to a report issued on Wednesday by the CIA's Iraq Survey Group.
The vouchers, which provided selective rights to buy Iraqi oil at a discount and to resell it for a huge profit, were provided to both mainstream and opposition political parties in countries such as Belarus, Russia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia; to oil companies in Turkey, Japan, Belgium, Italy, Canada and France; to an arms conglomerate in China; and to individuals in Switzerland, Jordan, the Netherlands, Russia, Malaysia and Burma, among others.
posted on October 23, 2004 11:38:31 PM new
Nice try with the first googled rumor from last May. The whole world could be named and there is nothing I can do about it and it certainly won't slander me. DUH
Remember this discussion is NOT about Canada.
Now as far as troops from Germany being in combat in the Gulf war, that isn't true either.
Now maybe you can stop being a little google goose for awhile and get back to the current topic about Bush going into Iraq with no plan, telling the rest of the world to screw off and that he'd go it alone.
Remember when Bush lied about WOMD?
Remember when Bush said he wasn't concerned about Osama Bin Laden?
Remember when Bush said "Bring 'em on" ?
Remember when Bush declared "Mission Accomplished"?
Remember when Bush said he'd "Stay the Course"?
Oh ya, how about those thugs that Bush can't bring down?
Don't you think there's a slight problem with this picture? How is America going to get out?
Remember, we are discussing the war in Iraq and not Canada.
Linda is a "google goose" waddling from post to post with daffynews and daffynitions. Have you ever been to a park where geese roam freely about and found that you have a problem with something on your shoes? Linda spreads that stuff about too.
posted on October 24, 2004 07:14:21 AM new
You should know by now that Helen doesn't let insults fly unanswered.
It's a close one, Twelvepole. But I sincerely believe that Kerry will win. What will I do if he doesn't? Probably the same thing those guys do in a fox hole.
By ignoring nuclear proliferation in Korea and Iran and by neglecting the problem in Afghanistan in order to go to war with a country not involved in 9/11 George Bush made a colossal mistake that will affect the entire world for many years. In fact, another four years of Bush policy will end the world as we know it.
posted on October 24, 2004 08:36:21 AM new
twelvepole, you speak as if you have a vision of a dictatorship with Bush ruling the world and calling the shots and you seem more than pleased at the thought of falling in line under his control.
Don't you recognize the danger posed by other countries in this world? Don't you ever wonder about the military might of other countries?
Does it ever occur to you that the US is having trouble gaining any control in Iraq so how can they possibly take on the rest of the world when they've pissed off most of it already?
then what reason does he or you give for the FACT that Germany did go into the first Iraq war in 1991....with BOTH troops and materials?
Linda_k has always claimed to be such a military expert here so I'm waiting for her to show me proof of Germany going into Iraq in 1991 with troops.
posted on October 24, 2004 08:51:50 AM new
I think that Twelve, like many people, thinks of the US as a giant that is untouchable by others. And it is true that our military might is more formiddable than any other country.
What he, and others, forget is that if enough other countries group together against us even our might would fall.
Witness Germany. They were a military powerhouse. They decided that it was their destiny to spread their ideals & way of life to other countries (gee, sound familiar)--and they would have been successful if other countries hadn't banded together to fight against them. We here in the US like to think that we alone won WWII, but that isn't the case.
What Bush & Co. forget is that the world supported us when we went after bin Laden, the perpetrator behind 9/11. That support began to wane when we attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. And it will probably disappear altogether if we go on to attack other countries with the purpose of "spreading democracy."
Bush is a danger to the future of this country.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on October 24, 2004 09:34:08 AM new
What you all are forgetting is that those "pissed off" are not their governments...
Tony Blair is going to be reelected to his position, didn't seem to really hurt him, Japan knows who their protector is...
We are not "forcing" anything, we are taking action when action needs to be taken.
Those other countries couldn't even agree what to do against a Saddam, you actually think they would come together against the US ROFLMAO... not in my life time...
In reality we are not invading willy nilly here, there was a purpose... also we are working with 5 other countries agains NK... but kerry wants to make that unilateral... tsk tsk...
posted on October 24, 2004 04:56:27 PM newthen what reason does he or you give for the FACT that Germany did go into the first Iraq war in 1991....with BOTH troops and materials?
Linda, I'm bumping this because you asked me a question and I don't think Germany sent their troops into Iraq in 1991.
Can you C&P about the German combat troops that went into Iraq then? Asking nicely, pretty please?
posted on October 24, 2004 05:20:05 PM new
Something my son shared with me twelve, was not to pay too much attention about what the media was saying - when it sounded like just EVERYONE was protesting this and that....as they only report the 'terrible' news...or the 'activists' activities from the different countries. He said it normally doesn't represent the country on a 'whole'...just those making the most noise. And that's why those like Australia's leader was voted back into office...even thought most of what we 'heard' about via the media sounded like he was out for sure.
----------------------
No, kiara I've already shown that you lied about this President....you were wrong about Canada...and that I refuse to pull up links for those I don't respect. So do your own google search....under U.S. Coaliation forces - Gulf War 1990-1991 and you will find Germany's name and their contribution to the Gulf war for yourself.
posted on October 24, 2004 05:24:54 PM new
There is nothing to show that Germany sent combat troops into Iraq. You said it was a FACT that they sent troops into Iraq. So where do you get your information from if it's not on the internet?
Linda said, "Also I'd like to ask you IF you believe, as you've said that the reason Germany didn't join us because their laws prevent them from doing so [or like they're pacifists]...then please explain to me just how they were able to do so in the Iraqi war of 1991. They sent in troops AND materials.
Germany is the only major European nation that has said it will not take part in an attack on Iraq, even if endorsed by the UN Security Council.
Germany has appealed for a diplomatic solution, arguing that international efforts to fight terrorism, rebuild Afghanistan and calm the conflict in the Middle East could be destabilised by a strike against Iraq.
Germany provided finance, but not troops, in the Gulf War campaign.
posted on October 24, 2004 06:27:53 PM new
Kiara, you said, "Be informed and never fear seeking the truth." Give it to them Kiara those few words tell it all, but remember that the sick people you are replying to do FEAR THE TRUTH.
posted on October 24, 2004 06:33:02 PM new
Linda says......
Something your brother, my other son shared with me twelve, was not to pay too much attention about what the media was saying - when it sounded like just EVERYONE was protesting this and that....as they only report the 'terrible' news...or the 'activists' activities from the different countries.
posted on October 24, 2004 06:43:57 PM new
Nope helen...that's the democrats. They're the side that's not willing to take their blinders off and see this President isn't the enemy...the terrorists are. The dems are the ones who think everything is just going to go back to pre-911 days if we're willing to be 'sensitive' to the terrorists and make them understand we realize 9-11 was own fault....not binladens...not the AQ...but our fault.
It's the dems who support a man who has changed his position on all the most important issue that affect the safely of our Nation. They don't care he voted for this war....they don't care for 14 years he's had a history of believing saddam presented a threat. They don't care that kerry's voted to reduce our intelligence funding. Nope....absolutely NONE of this spineless politician's [kerry] positions he's taken...and then changed sometimes even on the same day...matter.
HE doesn't even know what he'll do....nor how he'll pay for every promise...but that doesn't matter either....
because he's all the left has and even though he's accomplished absolutely nothing in his 20 year Senate career....he's all the Bush-haters have. Their only choice...and they scraped the bottom of the democratic candidates barrel when they nominated this joker.
posted on October 24, 2004 06:56:13 PM new
Well make fun...it's the way you get your jollies I guess...
but it did turn out to be true as:
Article Published: Sunday, October 10, 2004 Australian premier is re-elected Conservatives win despite anger over the Iraq war
By Mike Corder
The Associated Press
Sydney, Australia - Prime Minister John Howard's conservative alliance handily won a fourth term in Australia's parliamentary elections Saturday, overcoming widespread anger at his decision to send troops to Iraq last year and his pledge to keep them there.
And I believe Tony Blair will follow suit and so will our President. They are honest men who love their countries and aren't in this just for their OWN SELF INTERESTS...like kerry is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner
Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Re-elect President Bush
[ edited by Linda_K on Oct 24, 2004 07:09 PM ]
posted on October 24, 2004 06:56:41 PM new
Linda_k, concerning the oil for food program, just because Canada received a voucher like numerous other countries it doesn't mean that they did anything illegal.
Perhaps instead of trying to slander other countries you should read some facts here first so as not to embarrass yourself further with your lack of knowledge.
posted on October 24, 2004 06:59:14 PM new
I also wanted to mention that he won EVEN WITH kerry's sister over in Australia speaking to the citizens about why they shouldn't continue to support the USA in Iraq, as our ally.
Pretty sick when a so-called American goes to a US ally and tries to convince them not to help her own country. And kerry's not much better...he'll turn on this country just like he did in Vietnam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
When you asked Septembermom if she was from Canada, Linda spoke up and said you don't have to live in a country to understand it's workings, yet when one of us says anything about the U.S., she gets mad at us! I get the feeling she's trying to level the playing field by getting her digs in about Canada, as that's what she thinks we're trying to do to the U.S. Oh well. 
.
Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"