posted on November 15, 2004 02:24:56 PM
Quote "If this was your child would you have wanted the police to use a taser on him/her. I bet if this was your child, the majority here would be screaming the police used excessive force."
Oh how times have changed for the worse.
When I was in school and acted up we were sent to the principal, who called in the coach, and they administered a few much needed swats to my behind. Then when I got home, my father would also administer a few much needed swats to my behind.
It worked for me and countless others.
posted on November 15, 2004 03:00:43 PM
About the 12 year old. A police officer happened to walk by a swimming pool where kids were swimming and drinking alcohol. All the children were truant. The 12 year old ran away through a parking lot onto a street and that is when the office taser'd her.
The dade county police are investigating. The mother was very upset that her child was shot but not that she was truant or drinking.
The 6 year old has ADD...
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To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 15, 2004 03:44:14 PM
I have to chime in on this. I read this over the weekend, and am shocked at how these officers handled both situations. Taser is not the answer to handling a child, whether they are 6 years old and holding a piece of glass or if they are 12 and are truant and drunk.
I've worked in social work, focusing on children and teenagers. I've worked with children with ADD, and trust me, ADD was not what was involved with this 6 year cutting himself. Children with just ADD do not do things like this. ADD in the mental health field is not a serious diagnosis. It is so common that it is the catch phrase for the new millenium for mental health. It is often overdiagnosed because parents or teachers are simply too impatient and would rather refer a child to a psychologist to prescribe drugs. I've worked with teenagers with alcohol fetal syndrome, trichotillomania, OCD, ADD, tourette's syndrome, depression etc.
I've worked with too many children who have thrown tirades, attempted to hurt themselves and others, and a taser or anything close to a taser was never needed to diffuse a situation.
Tasers are way too dangerous and have been responsible for too many deaths to adults to be even considered safe to use against a child. Police officers are trained to work with people in difficult situations, mostly adults, but should know that a taser is dangerous and should not have been used. I hope these officers are reprimanded and suspended.
I do find it amusing that good old Linda is there to defend a police officer using excessive force with a dangerous weapon on a 6 year old. Proof that another right winged christian fanatic has their morals out of whack. I cannot believe she is a mother and would condone this behavior.
posted on November 15, 2004 04:52:24 PM
Finally, a voice of reason. Thank You Rustygumbo!!!!
Actually, I do work with children, and have for over 20 years. I am a children's librarian.
Let me say this now: I [i]am[/] and always have been in favor of spanking, when one is required. But that is a far cry from running 50,000 volts of electricity through a child!
Frankly, I find some responses to this incident here to be incredible. I remember a thread a year or so ago regarding spanking; it was a long, hotly contested debate and many here came down on the side of "spanking equates with child abuse." But zapping kids with 50,000 volts of electricity is OK?!?
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"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on November 15, 2004 06:14:29 PMI do find it amusing that good old Linda is there to defend a police officer using excessive force with a dangerous weapon on a 6 year old. Proof that another right winged christian fanatic has their morals out of whack. I cannot believe she is a mother and would condone this behavior.
Well..I'm glad to have amused you, rusty. But being that NONE of us were there to know exactly what took place, nor IF the reporter has a bias against discipline or believes there is too much police brutality, then yes, I believe that if the school principle, two police officers and one guard felt they couldn't do any thing differently than use the taser to subdue the child...they did what they did to keep the child from further hurting himself. I would never assume they were all incompetent and out of some sick need to hurt children they just joyfully zapped him.
Normally in a scuffle if a mirrow/picture frame glass were broken and glass flew all over the place, a normal six year old would most likely think he'd acted in a inappropriate manner and be worried he was in big trouble...and he would never think to pick up a piece of the glass and threaten another person with it, let alone start cutting himself up.
This child has serious problems....and I support those who were called to deal with a situation where had he cut himself in the wrong place he could have bled to death right there. They had no way of knowing what was going on in his head. Had they not done with they did... even more liberal thinkers would be out blaming the police. They always seem to be in a no win situation with some on the left. Yet they'd be the first one's you'd call when you needed their help.
Very easy to play armchair quarterback...especially without having all the facts.
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bunni - I serious doubt there were any posters who were against spankings that would then/now support the use of a tazer. I would more easily be able to believe that those who support spanking as a form of discipline would have less trouble accepting the use of tazers in certain situations where it could be a matter of life and death. And I supported spanking....especially when it was something they were endangering themselves by doing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 16, 2004 01:34:53 PM
This is troubling, but I feel the police officers involved made the best choice in this instance. What could other scenarios have turned out? I can see the headlines now, 'SIX YEAR OLD SLITS OWN THROAT WHILE BEING MAN-HANDLED BY POLICE' or 'TWO POLICE WOUNDED BY SUICIDAL SIX YEAR OLD'. They were damned if they did, they were damned if they didn't. They used a tool that brought this incident to an end without injury to anyone, now we second guess them and recommend alternatives that could have lead to serious injury?
This is just like the possibilities with vaccinations. Yes, there is the remote possibility the six year old could have died or sustained injury from the jolt. And he could get a vaccination next week that does him in. I believe the tasering was 'for the greater good'.
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The Democrats were rejected by a majority of Americans
posted on November 16, 2004 01:50:52 PM
Here is a little more of the story:
MIAMI -- Parents and community leaders expressed outrage that a Miami-Dade County police officer used a 50,000-volt stun gun to subdue a 6-year-old boy who was using a shard of glass to cut himself and hold a security officer at bay.
"I couldn't imagine why a police officer would use that kind of device on a child," said Marvin Dunn, a psychology professor at Florida International University who was formerly a principal at an alternative school. "I can restrain a 6-year-old with one hand. I don't get it."
The Oct. 20 incident occurred inside the principal's office at Kelsey Pharr Elementary School, police said. The unidentified child, who has a history of behavioral problems, was alone in the office with a school security officer.
Principal Maria Mason told police she heard glass breaking and rushed into her office, where the boy was bleeding and holding a piece of glass he had taken out of a picture frame he broke with his fist.
By the time school district and Miami-Dade police officers arrived, the boy had cut himself under his right eye, was bleeding from his left hand and was smearing blood over his face, according to police reports.
An officer then slid a trash can toward the boy and tried to persuade him to throw away the glass. The boy responded by tightening his grip on the glass, the reports said.
As officers kept trying to calm the boy, he began cutting his leg with the glass, police said. That's when Miami-Dade Officer Maria Abbott fired the stun gun. The probes hit the boy in the midsection of his torso and the bottom of his shirt.
"To further prevent the student from injuring himself, the officer felt she needed to deploy the stun gun," said Police Detective Randy Rossman.
As the child went into shock, officers grabbed him and took away the glass, police said. Paramedics checked the boy's injuries, and he was committed for psychiatric evaluation at Jackson Memorial Hospital.
The child's family has not filed a complaint, Rossman said.
Miami-Dade County Public Schools spokesman Joseph Garcia said the district is reviewing the incident.
Miami-Dade police policy prohibits the use of Tasers only on pregnant women. Before the officer used the stun gun on the boy, a Miami-Dade officer at the scene called a sergeant and verified that its use was within department policy.
Rossman said the department's administration was reviewing its Taser policy.
Dunn said there are methods of physically restraining children and dealing with emotionally disturbed children. Clearing the room and having only one person speaking calmly to the child could have been one option, he said.
"You simply escalate the situation when you bring more adults into the picture," Dunn said.
State Sen. Frederica Wilson, a former elementary school principal, said she dealt with many troubled children but never had to resort to a stun gun.
"You don't shoot a child with anything," she said. "That's crazy."
Wilson said the fact that no adult was able to restrain the child shows "a whole system of failure. If this is going to be an issue, they need to have more training. You can't be afraid of children."
Parents at Pharr Elementary were likewise outraged.
"I blame the police entirely," Carmen O'Neal said as she picked up her 1st grader. "They had no right to do that."
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
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There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
But being that NONE of us were there to know exactly what took place, nor IF the reporter has a bias against discipline or believes there is too much police brutality, then yes, I believe that if the school principle, two police officers and one guard felt they couldn't do any thing differently than use the taser to subdue the child...they did what they did to keep the child from further hurting himself. I would never assume they were all incompetent and out of some sick need to hurt children they just joyfully zapped him.