posted on November 21, 2004 03:23:43 AM
A part of the transcript of this show is......
PAUL ROLF JENSEN, LAWYER AND PRESBYTERIAN: I am called to action within the Presbyterian church to fight back against those who have made war and would destroy our church.
The management of the church has shifted so far to the left, so far away from traditional Christianity, that it's turning people off in droves. We lost 48,000 members net last year.
For the past three years, Paul Jensen, a self-described evangelical activist, has been turning words into actions. He has filed 25 charges of heresy against other Presbyterians who disagree with his strict interpretation of the Bible.
In 1863, Presbyterians split into two branches over the issue of slavery. It took nearly 120 years for that division to heal.
Things change, though. Societies change. There was a time when people kept slaves, when there was segregation.
And we've seen change and a reinterpretation of both our civil constitutions and our church conduct.
Isn't that how an alive democracy should do it?
The church is not a democracy. The church is a monarchy. And Jesus Christ is the king.
MIKE HAMLET, PASTOR, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF NORTH SPARTANBURG, SOUTH CAROLINA says....
There may be a lot of things about the Bible that I don't understand. But I'm not really given the choice of what I can believe and what I can't believe.
Isn't that what is called blind faith?
I accept the scripture there, believe that Jesus is the only way to God.
REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, PRESIDENT, THE INTERFAITH ALLIANCE:
"I think Christianity is more exclusive now than it was at its inception."
"I don't trust a religion that causes a person to write people off, rather than want to embrace them."
I thought that I would just update this thread in the fact this show is on again and of course I am watching it. And for those who didn't get to watch it.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 21, 2004 06:10:21 AM
linda says,
"""but one has to have some sort of *basis* for believing in that 'God'. At the very least by believing in 'some religions' definition of 'God'. Otherwise to me, it's strickly a belief in a 'higher power' or a 'creator' and not actually a God any religion believes in."""
Not only is this totally nonsensical... higher power...creator,,,must have NAME..blah, blah...must be told NAME by organization or God doesn't exist...blah, blah......
It's so sad to see people who can't ever think for themselves but must be told what to believe in......kind of a mental stagnation....
So right. We will think for you. We will guide you and your thinking. We will tell you what is correct and expected of you. We are here to help you survive.
Sort of like a cult, isn't it really?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
That was an interesting documentary, Yeager. It is discouraging to see the amount of hate that these radical evangelistic people have - not only toward each other but toward their fellow man and life in general, including the pleasurable things of life. The idea that man is basically evil seems to be their guiding principle. Dress them up in the appropriate clothing and they could be the American taliban or just let them wear their birthday suit.
posted on November 21, 2004 08:11:09 AM
Yes Helen,
It was very interesting. It was on this morning again too. I still can't believe that a 3 year old girl would know that she was "saved". There is a tremendous amount of hatred spewing (to use a word from linda) from their hearts.
Oh BTW, where did you get that picture of twelve's great grandpa? If Darwin's calculation is correct, then in about 10,000 years he might be able to mutter a few words in English.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 21, 2004 08:24:25 AM
Correct crowfart... you and yeager and kraft are the biggest anti-religion bigots on this board... is it any wonder no one takes you seriously?
But seeing what a "mind" changer you are when can we expect the next exit manifesto? It seems to be the only thing you're good at...
My great grandfather? No, but at least we have never been government mooches yeager... how much did it cost us so you can be here posting such dribble?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
[ edited by Twelvepole on Nov 21, 2004 08:26 AM ]
posted on November 21, 2004 08:42:25 AM
kraft, lol...you are soooo dumb. Do you really think you were telling me something that i didnt tell you - when I said about not liking club rules in the first place? Your, let me say it again, YOUR, whole point of contention is they dont promote individual thinking. -Am I right?
I merely relayed the 'club' analogy so you would get it. Since it appears to me your highly individualist thinking of this subject encompasses about the mentally and experience of a 10 year old.
All organizations no matter what they are: corporate, government, bike clubs, whatever..... have rules, laws, policies, that within themselves as a 'group' do not promote individual or wayward thinking. People join clubs, communities, etc, because they agree with the 'group' thinking in the first place. In other words, their individual idea(s) are pretty much already in sync, thats why they seek to be with others and <cough> ewww., that dirty word: organize. But somehow to you, this isnt right. It means some involuntary brainwashing or unclear thinking. Not so. People want a God. They actually want a religion. What is your religion, kraft? Internet boards? Why dont you go college and study something about society, culture, and human behavior so you can figure it out? I'm really not up for being your teacher here. :-0)
posted on November 21, 2004 08:44:46 AM
ACLJ Gets Federal Court Injunction Against CA School Dist. in Religious Discrimination Case
November 19, 2004
(Los Angeles, CA) – The American Center for Law and Justice, which specializes in constitutional law, announced today it has received a preliminary injunction from a federal court in Los Angeles against the Upland Unified School District in Upland, CA over the way it treated a religious organization.
“This is an important victory for our client and the First Amendment,” said Stuart J. Roth, Senior Counsel of the ACLJ. “It is clear that the school district’s policy of treating religious organizations differently – by charging them a usage fee to use school facilities – is not only wrong, but unconstitutional. We are pleased the federal court has determined that this discriminatory charge violates the rights of our client. With this preliminary injunction, our clients have been given access to city facilities on the same terms and conditions as other community groups.”
In July, the ACLJ filed suit in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles on behalf of the Pomona Valley Chapter of the Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF), a not-for-profit religious community youth organization located in Upland, CA.
According to the suit, the Upland Unified School District permitted CEF to use school facilities for a weekly meeting from February through May 2004 that focused on how the Bible addresses issues facing students but was sent an invoice for $304 reflecting a fee of $19 per meeting charged to the organization because the meetings were classified as religious.
The suit contends the policy of the school district along with a California Education Code singles out religious organizations in a discriminatory fashion by charging a usage fee for religious groups, while other community organizations are permitted to use the facilities free of charge.
The ACLJ asked a federal court for a preliminary injunction in the case. In an opinion filed with the court on November 15th, U.S. District Court Judge Virginia A. Phillips granted a motion for preliminary injunction against the school district – preventing the school district from continuing to charge the usage fee.
In the words of Judge Phillips: “Plaintiffs likely have been, and will continue to be, deprived of their First Amendment right to use the District’s facilities on the same basis as non-religious organizations engaged in similar activities.”
The American Center for Law and Justice, which specializes in constitutional law, is based in Washington, D.C.
posted on November 21, 2004 08:50:08 AM the amount of hate
The amount of hate??? Gee, helen I must have missed that segment. And I saw it before. So was that when they were laughing and jumping in their pool? Or when they were congrated in their own church auditorium praying to their God?
Seems to me what they want is live the life they believe they should, AND be represented by a government they are part of as well.
Just about what everybody else wants.
Yeager, you are so ignorant I'm not even answering you.
[ edited by neroter12 on Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM ]
posted on November 21, 2004 09:10:37 AM
yeager-it is more important to be with my granddaughter than it is to sit at my computer reading your religious and gay threads. You say your religion is private then why don't you quite posting about other religions. We all have a right to choose and we should not critize others. It's the news media that can't let this go evidently they didn't think enough people saw the first one so they had to repeat it 3 more times. Well I for one didn't see any of them and if they repeat it again I will not see it then either. I learned as an child that you should never talk about religion and politics as they are personal preferences.
12-$815,000.00 and probably still counting.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 21, 2004 09:32:05 AM
partial transcript??? LOL....why....why not the whole transcript. Afraid that others will see how well you 'twist' what was said?
And helen...I challenge you to point out where you saw any HATE. There was no hate...there was disagreement and difference of opinions. Having a different opinion than another person does NOT mean it's hateful.
posted on November 21, 2004 09:35:03 AMLibra..you are one big series of contradictions..
yeager-it is more important to be with my granddaughter than it is to sit at my computer reading your religious and gay threads
But..you are sitting at your computer, doing what you said you aren't going to do?
I learned as an child that you should never talk about religion and politics as they are personal preferences
ummmm..Libra..are you saying that you know better than to post anything about religion and politics here on the board as they are personal preferences.. as you quoted? That's strange.. I could have sworn that I have read many threads and posts from someone with the name Libra.. talking about politics and religion right here on the RT.. But I could be mistaken..LOLMaggie
posted on November 21, 2004 09:37:47 AM
Glad to read that twelve. These cases of allowing some groups to use school facilities, while not allowing religious groups to have equal rights, seems to be a constant fight the ACLJ takes on. I know this has been a problem in colleges too.
The ACLJ is a great group that constantly fights for abuses to our religious freedoms the far left tries to take away.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 21, 2004 11:52:14 AMSo, linda are you saying that a person can't believe in a personal god, without first being involved in an organized religious group??? No.
Every person has a personal belief of what their god is. How is it that your observation is more correct than anyone else's? I never said that either. Matter of fact, many times I have said none of us know which 'version' of religion is going to end up being the 'true/right' religion....until the end times. We all base our beliefs/faith on the way we've decided is the true or right/correct way, from our understanding.
But to say one believes in a God vs a 'frog'....one has to have thought about where did that God come from? Did he form the universe? Will he make decisions about our future after our deaths? What does he ask us to do in this life, if anything? Whose version of God formed that personal decision? One can't just say I believe in God...and have no basis/background as to who, what or where that belief came from or whose 'God' they're speaking about.
Otherwise, as I said, other than a religious definition of a God...it would be believing or not being sure there is a 'God' [agnostics] but believing there is some 'creator of the universe' or some 'higher power' that can't be explained...and is taken on 'faith', just as the people of faith do.
Yeager, read ALL of what I said.
I said, in FULL:
And I also agree...some can believe in God...and don't have to be involved in a religious group...or attend church...but one has to have some sort of *basis* for believing in that 'God'. At the very least by believing in 'some religions' definition of 'God'. Otherwise to me, it's strickly a belief in a 'higher power' or a 'creator' and not actually a God any religion believes in.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 21, 2004 12:05:38 PMAgain.. may I say.. Bravo to you Helen !!.. you can state your opinion and message in a clear and concise manner...unlike Linda who bores us all to death with the long drawn out repetitive he said/she said.. blabbering....Yawning.. tedious...same old drivel..
posted on November 21, 2004 12:56:49 PM"I merely relayed the 'club' analogy so you would get it. Since it appears to me your highly individualist thinking of this subject encompasses about the mentally and experience of a 10 year old."
Gee Nero, are you in your manic stage again already? What are you talking about? What 'club' analogy did you relay? LoL!
Again, I can see how difficult it is for you to understand that a person can believe in God but not religion. No different than me not being able to understand organized religion. If you want to believe religion promotes individual thinking then go for it, but my not agreeing with that statement is just as valid.
posted on November 21, 2004 04:04:00 PM
What in the world are you talking about?
kraft: Sorry Nero, I have no need to lie to myself or anyone else. Again, I believe in God, but not organized religion because it doesn't promote individual thinking......
nero: kraft, your whole idea about religion not promoting individual thinking is so off the wall - its no use in even trying to talk to you about the subject. lol. You dont like the club rules, of Christianity eh .....
kraft: Nero, religion is based on group thinking. That's why it's called organized..........
kraft: LoL Crow! I'd like to start the religion of common sense but not many people would get it.......
nero: Do you really think you were telling me something that i didnt tell you - when I said about not liking club rules in the first place? Your, let me say it again, YOUR, whole point of contention is they dont promote individual thinking. -Am I right?.....
kraft: Gee Nero, are you in your manic stage again already? What are you talking about?.....
Cheesiset: You are a total mental midget. Go back to surfing the net "lmao'ing" about some stupid sex jokes that people have heard a million times already. Or better yet, go mezmerize yourself watching your favorite show, jerry springer. Sex and trash. That's about the caliber of which you can manage to debate.
Here's another news flash for you: People can believe in a God without a religion. My question to - what is it you claim that your belief in Your God is held from? Does your God have any conditions? What? Tell me, what, if you're so bold...
But you wont, because I will point you right back to some other "religion's doctrine" established way before you thought it was your own glorious individual idea.
And of course, being the svelt anti-follower you are, all you really do is troll for attention,(like you're even equal to one on that score) - then claim youre looking for answers.
You act like having a belief in God is like picking out wardrobe accessories. Anything ou choose or discard is your own cool individual taste and good common sense. Thats no concept of a God, kraft. Its not an inanimate thing you throw on when it befits you to do so, and forget about it when your tired of it.
And sorry, kid, all the ideas that "make sense, yuk, yuk" have been thought of already. Established by a 'gasp'... a previously organized religion. But you're just too stupid to have any education or knowledge regarding that simple fact.
posted on November 21, 2004 04:12:10 PM
Time for the rubber manure hats!!!!!
Neroter 's bustin' a vein!
YYEEEHAWWW!!!!
What a total load of sheer gibberish! And what the F--- is a " svelt anti-follower "
A skinny non-believer...oh hahaha ohoho,,,o lawdy I can't stop laughing!
posted on November 21, 2004 04:23:33 PM
crowfart, you know that syphilis you contracted doing all your farm animals - I think you better check with a doctor before all your hair starts falling out and exposes your nuked and burnt out brain cells.
btw, do you EVER get off this computer troll # 9,695,430,624?
posted on November 21, 2004 04:36:40 PM
Nero, I hope this doesn't turn out to be one of your multiple rant postings where you talk about stuff that NOBODY understands.
Go re-read my posts. I will pray that you'll be able to comprehend some of my writings this time.
posted on November 21, 2004 04:45:20 PM
Nero, you hit the nail on the head. You say that Crowfarm has syphilis from doing her farm animals, yet you claim to be religious. What a transparent laugh you are.
posted on November 21, 2004 05:15:28 PM
ROFLMAO..CHEESEDOODLE.
Neroter..I know that twinkle in your eye..LOL..
Remember I'm psychic.. and I see you reaching for those voodoo dolls.. you'll have Crow and Kraft doing a pin-prick cha cha tonight..won't you.. as you said religion takes all forms.. hee hee..
Actually, I rather enjoyed this line:
And of course, being the svelt anti-follower you are, all you really do is troll for attention,(like you're even equal to one on that score) - then claim youre looking for answers. Of course I always find Nero's specification amazing!
And the rebuttal...hoo hoo!You can kiss my butt right where the goat did you vulgar low class WEINIE!
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
Of course I always find Nero's specification amazing!
