posted on April 21, 2002 03:51:48 PM new
Outoftheblue, to answer your questions, yes I believe the MLA program on AuctionDiner is on the up-and-up. I don't know all the nitty gritty legal details of what makes a "pyramid scheme" illegal vs. an MLM type program legal, but with MaryKay and Amway out there as examples of legal MLM business entities, there must be some differentiations. Auction Diner has thrown a little twist into the mix in that it is an auction site first and foremost (in my opinion at least) and decided to add the multi-level auctioning program on top of it to distinguish itself from other auction sites.
As for me personally making money from participation in the MLA program, time will tell. I have been spreading the word about the program in a number of creative ways, but I am sure I have not put in as much time "recruiting" folks as a number of others probably have. For me, online auction selling is something I do in what little spare time that I have. I am a stay-at-home-Mommy, so taking care of my children is my highest priority. I am fortunate in that my family does not depend on my online auction sales (or lack thereof - hee hee) as a source of income. If I make a sale, great! If I don't, that's ok too.
For others, online auction sales are a necessary part of their family income and that may well be a factor in motivating them to recruit as many folks as possible into the MLA program. I applaud those folks who have the time/talent/energy to go all out and make this MLA program work well for them so they can reap the rewards of their efforts!
I consider myself more of an online auction buyer than seller - I buy way, way more "stuff" than I've ever sold! LOL! I decided to become an online auction seller to generate $$ to help feed my habit of being an online auction buyer!
To be completely honest, I am still not convinced I will make money from the MLA program, but I decided to bite the bullet and give it a try. I have stated in a number of online chat forums, including those on AuctionDiner, that I wasn't sure if the program was right for me but that I was willing to try it for a few months and see how it goes. If I am not able to at least recoup the cost of the $25 monthly "gold associate" fee at the end of the next few months, I will drop out of the program.
Will I still be an active Auction Diner seller/buyer even if I choose to not participate in the MLA program? You bet! Why? I have made a lot of friends on the site and have learned so much from both buyers and sellers alike there - continuing to sell/buy there is one way I can continue to show my support for these folks!
I hope that helps answer your questions. If not, please let me know and I'll try again!
posted on April 21, 2002 05:48:19 PM new
I won't argue the legalities of the MLA at this point or even attempt to change your mind. That's not my place.
I do know a little bit about MLMs and, legal or not, the majority of folks who start out with big dreams are disapointed. I read, from a reliable source the other day that 90+ percent of Amway direct distibutors are operating at a loss. Does that sound like a viable business opportunity? MaryKay may be a bit better because they seem to focus as much on selling the product as they do on signing up new recruits.
The fact is that if you use the word multi-level when talking about a business opportunity, most people will automatically close their minds. The majority are scams and most people know it.
I would be a bit worried where it says that you need to pay $25 per month to be able to make money as an associate. Check out the following link to the FTC and compare it to the MLA marketing plan. You be the judge.
posted on April 21, 2002 08:46:16 PM new
Sallyhoffman,
Talk about being a hyprocrite. I give an honest assessment about a dead site and all you do is blast me about having items listed there. Yes the site sucks. Yes I do have items listed there only because it is free to list. AD is a parking lot for auctions. And since it is free, I have no problem leaving them there for the slim chance that someone will actually stay long enough to weed through those bogus diner dollar auctions. And if for some reason, someone bids, most likely it will be a deadbeat anyway. That is what AD stands for anyway. Another Deadbeat. Unlike you, I can honestly say that I have real items listed there. You are selling recipes only because you were challenged a while back on it. You were put under the bus by many others except myself because you were posting opinions about auctions and you didn't even list items anywhere. That is real original not to mention probably illegal. I would bet that you did not get written permission of the copyright holder to post them. You need it if you got the recipe from any book, magazine or newspaper. Now because you still have your own selfish goals, you still insist upon attacking me.
Why is it on every post that I make for the kids at our school, you feel the need to interfere? Why is it, every time I post for the kids, within hours you either bump your post or interfere with mine? The history is there. It is time to grow up sally hoffman.
posted on April 22, 2002 06:18:17 AM new
Barparts, thank you for answering my questions regarding your auctions on AuctionDiner. I simply wanted to better understand your comments in this thread and now I do. I agree with you that since AD has free listings, it may make sense for some sellers to use it as a parking lot for auctions.
As for my auctions, you are free to state your opinions of them. Given the vast collection of recipes out there, I suppose some of the recipes I have listed could be found in the books/newspapers/magazines. However a number of them are original family recipes that have "evolved" over the years. Some change every time we make them, so they are a bit different every time.
Your claim that I am selling recipes simply because "I was challenged on it a while back" is simply not true. As mentioned before, I consider myself more of an online auction buyer than seller. One look at my feedback will tell you that I have over the years purchased many more items than have sold. I decided to become an online auction seller to generate $$ to help feed my habit of being an online auction buyer! I currently do not own a digital camera, so that in itself limits what I will place up for auction - pictures do help sell items! We plan to purchase a digital camera soon - once that happens I will be placing more non-recipe items up for sale. Photos I have included in any current auctions came from other sellers whom I contacted and asked their permission to use their photos.
To address your comment: "Why is it on every post that I make for the kids at our school, you feel the need to interfere?".
In no way am I trying to interfere with your posts. I am sorry if you mis-interpreted my comments. I am simply trying to better understand exactly how your daughter's school PTO fund raising efforts are handled. One of your box tops request posts said the money raised from this fund raising effort would go toward new playground equipment, another post indicated the money would help save the special education classes. Since I assume (perhaps incorrectly), that both of these very worthwhile activites cost more than the amount the box tops program collected this year, I wanted more information on how PTO monies are used and distributed to pay for various PTO funded activities.
Personally, I don't see this question as interfering at all with your post, but rather wanting more information on your daughters school's budget for the special ed programs and new playground equipment and how the PTO was able to help raise money to fund these activities.
Had you posted the same questions in my box tops request thread, I would have told you that my son's school PTO pools some of the monies they generate from fund raising activities into a "general fund". The box tops program falls under the "general fund" category. One activity the monies in the general PTO fund were used for this year was to sponsor an author visit (visit cost was a little over $2000, $1000 of which came from the box top program) - the author was Shelley Gill, one of the first women to participate in the Iditarod dog sled races.
One example of a PTO fund raising activity whose monies are targeted toward a specific goal is the "scrip" program, which in previous posts I have mentioned is a gift certificate program whereby you prebuy gift certificates and the participating merchants donate a percentage of the face value of the certificate back to the school. This year monies from the scrip program will allow the school to purchase a portable science cart for science related lessons and a weather station to allow students to learn all about weather.
If it would make you feel more comfortable, I would gladly speak directly to your daughter's school PTO president about the questions I have, thereby getting you out of the "middle man" position, so to speak. Please feel free to either send me his/her name/phone number/email address or have them send me an email at [email protected] and I can take it from there.
posted on April 22, 2002 07:23:20 AM new
outoftheblue,
I like the name. Probably one of the best record albums of all time. Anyway about bidville. I also have many items there as a parking lot. The big trouble there is all of those commons sports cards. A potential buyer searches for tea pots for example and what happens? About 4 auctions for tea pots and 3000 sports cards will show up. This will happen in most of the catagories over there. By the way, I bet you are wondering how I am able to have anything listed over there without paying for them. I found a glitch which I will not post here.
outoftheblue, if you would like to know, e-mail me and I will let you know.
bp
posted on April 22, 2002 11:25:29 AM new
Outoftheblue says:
I read, from a reliable source the other day that 90+ percent of Amway direct distibutors are operating at a loss.
Could you send a link to this or where you got it? My sister and her DH are in amway and I have been trying to get them to understand that they were suckered in and that they lose way more money than they make. They keep talking about points - BIG DEAL! Thanks!
posted on April 22, 2002 11:41:23 AM new
>>"Could you send a link to this or where you got it?"<<
It was a link (to an mlm watch website) that I found on Mootropolis, I think. If I can find it again, I will post it.
Edited to add: I have had experience with Amway myself and I have a lot of friends who have been in the so-called business. Everyone that I know of, without exception, has quit in disgust or given up (including our upline).
I hated all of the thinly disguised lies they tried to get us to use to entice people into the "plan". I didn't like feeling obligated to purchase Amway's over priced products when I could find the same thing for considerably cheaper at the corner grocery store or Target. I didn't like feeling obligated to purchase their useless "motivational" casset tapes and self help books.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Apr 22, 2002 12:05 PM ]
posted on April 22, 2002 12:19:28 PM new
Not a problem barparts, I've forwarded this post to BidVille customer service. They'll get it figured out.
BTW didn't I see a post before about you copying sallyhoffmans posts soliciting boxtops for education donations? I hope your kids are being taught better than what you are teaching them. Cheating, belittling others business practices...I sure hope they do as you say not as you do.
posted on April 22, 2002 01:31:25 PM new
Outoftheblue,
Yes, my sister buys the motivational tapes, goes on the power trips (even though they can't afford to), etc. I feel like they have been brainwashed.
posted on April 22, 2002 01:33:03 PM new
Bidsbids I have been reading the boards at bidville and tempers are steaming over no customer service, and no programming. The only thing they can do at bidville is change the colors. They are so bad they never changed their policies listed on the site hehe.
posted on April 22, 2002 01:39:44 PM new
Hi, RB!
I have been missing you at the MOO. I do not believe they think they are brainwashed. I try not to talk about it to her as it pi**es her off!
posted on April 22, 2002 02:58:05 PM new
Kodi,
To set the record straight. It was sallyhoffman that was accussing me of that when in fact I was posting it in other forums well before she even had a child in school. It maybe true that she was first in the auction forums as I only brought it to them last fall. But I had indeed submitted them in many other messege forums well before that. Also, it is not me interfering other threads for box tops or any other forums. Fact, even after being attacked, I simply went on with my business. As far a copying any threads. Not true. Just happens that I and others have the same goals and the info provided out there is the same.
PS: I see you play dirty too. You can have that damm bidville anyway. You pretty much did me a favor though. Now I won't waste my time at a dead site anymore. I have better things to do and more promising sites to check out than commons cards central.
posted on April 22, 2002 03:09:01 PM new
barparts if you have items other than low quality sports cards you may want to try yahoo auctions. There is a much higher sell thru rate than bidville, and for the price it cant be beat.
posted on April 22, 2002 03:35:09 PM new
Blairwitch,
Been there doing that. I went back to Yahoo last fall even before the reduced listing fees. I am happy I did, but I also know that everything isn't going to sell, so parking lot sites at least keep my items out there for people to see. But after what has happened, I am very happy to be done at BV.
Thanks again kodi,
bp
posted on April 22, 2002 03:59:43 PM new
Oh and Blairwitch, he doesn't from my personal experience (have high quality items that is) I can take a picture of the piece of trash he sent me.
barparts, just a matter of time for your suspension. Be patient, you will get what you wanted.
posted on April 22, 2002 04:24:03 PM new
Barparts, since you're done with BV please post the glitch that allows free posting without registering. Even if BV knows about the glitch they probably can not fix it ( just like they are totally incapable of adding a description search ) . If you want to totally embarass BV and have some fun then do it. Just say you read it on a bathroom wall somewhere and post it here.
posted on April 22, 2002 05:48:31 PM new
Barparts, I have no knowledge of your alledged box tops posts "on other forums well before she even had a child in school" (your words not mine), so I cannot comment directly on that statement.
I will concede that you, as well as any other Internet user, have the right to post requests, comments, opinions, etc. in public forums in cyber space. I may not agree with your or someone else's opinion on a given subject matter; however I acknowledge your right to make such posts.
To address your statement:
"it is not me interfering other threads for box tops or any other forums". One look at your threads over the last number of months will prove that for the most part I have made no comments in them what-so-ever; rather I have continued to ignore them.
The few times recently that I did add comments in your box top threads were to:
1) provide you with other fund raising ideas that you could discuss with your daughter's school PTO to potentially generate substantial amounts of additional monies.
See epier thread:
http://www.epier.com/ShowThread.asp?ThreadID=4409&ForumID=19
or
2) ask some valid questions regarding your daughter's school expenditures for the special education programs and new playground equipment and how PTO monies are used and distributed to pay for various PTO funded activities.
See epier thread:
http://www.epier.com/ShowThread.asp?ThreadID=4997&ForumID=19
I hardly consider this "interfering" with your threads. They are valid comments/questions and I would think any parent involved in their child's PTO (or otherwise support their child's school) would welcome such suggestions and questions and be forthright in answers to posed questions. I know I would be if those comments/questions were directed at my threads. I would gladly welcome new ideas for PTO fund raising ideas (actually I believe I posted threads specifically asking for fund raising ideas, including several here on AW) and do my best to answer questions as accurately and timely as I could. I would not consider those types of posts in my threads as "interfering", but that's just me, not everyone may have the same viewpoint.
I do take issue with your statements: "As far a copying any threads. Not true. Just happens that I and others have the same goals and the info provided out there is the same." I have come across a number of other folks in cyberspace posting requests for box tops and NONE, and I repeat NONE have had almost the exact same verbiage as my original box tops posts dating back to 11/2001.
Kodiheglin, please correct me if I am mistaken here, but I believe your comment "didn't I see a post before about you copying sallyhoffmans posts soliciting boxtops for education donations" was in reference to the following examples....
Here is an example of one of my box top posts on AuctionDiner :
(See the following AuctionDiner thread for the entire post: http://www.auctiondiner.com/chat/index.php?viewthread=666880913&forum=1)
sallyhoffman
Posted on: October 5th, 2001 08:37:28am
My son started kindergarten in August and being the get-involved-in-my-kids-education type of Mommy that I am, I am already working on ways to earn money for the school (the President of the PTO has already told me she wants me to volunteer for some fundraising "stuff" - surprise, surprise - hee hee. Personally, I`m looking to head up a parent`s safety committee to address safety/violence related issues at the school...can you tell I`ve become a firm believer in the writings of Gavin deBecker?!?! But that`s another story).
Anyway, one of the things my son`s elementary school is doing to raise money is to save the "Box Tops for Education" logos from General Mills products. The General Mills Box Tops for Education are each worth 10 cents and are found on such General Mills products as: Cheerios, Lucky Charms, Total, Fruit by the Foot, Fruit Roll-ups, Fruit Gushers, Dunkaroos, Yoplait yogurt multipacks, Potato Buds, Suddenly Salad, Bisquick, Yoplait Go-Gurt yogurt, Bac-os, Supermoist cake mix, Betty Crocker frosting, Betty Crocker supreme brownies, Betty Crocker supreme dessert bars, Betty Crocker potato side dishes, Lloyd`s barbeque buckets, Hamburger Helper, Chicken Helper, and Tuna Helper.
Last year`s efforts generated over $900 for the school; the goal for the 2001-2002 school year is $1100. If anyone (who isn`t already saving these logos for their own children/grandchildren) is interested in saving these for me, please send me an email (or post a reply). I`d be willing to reimburse folks for postage on getting the logos to me (I`m guestimating that one could fit quite a few logos into a single standard envelope).
I`m having trouble getting pictures of the logo in this message, so please check out this website to see the logos I am requesting folks save for my son`s school. www.boxtops4education.com/works/logo.asp
The logos do have an expiration date on them. Looking at some of the ones on cereal boxes I have here at home, it appears they expire in June 2002. So as you clip the logos from the various General Mills packages, please check to make sure the expiration date is far enough in advance that when I receive them from you they will still be valid. I am assuming that General Mills sets these expiration dates far enough into the future so that folks can collect them for the entire school year and turn them in at the end of the school year and still get credit for them.
By the way, I personally will be collecting them year-round, most likely saving the ones collected over the summer until school begins again in the fall.
Have a super day everyone.
Here is an example of one of barparts box top posts on AuctionDiner :
(See the following AuctionDiner thread for the entire post: http://www.auctiondiner.com/chat/index.php?viewthread=666885782&forum=1)
barparts
Posted on: October 20th, 2001 01:02:21pm
Hello Everyone,
I am posting this as a favor for my two Daughters. They are collecting the General Mills Box tops for education as a fundraiser for playground Equipment that is sponsored by their schools PTA that I am a member.
What they are collecting them for is improvements in their playground equipment. The equipment they have right now is so old it literally falls apart when it gets used. Much of it has already had to be removed for safety reasons and the funds have not been there to replace it.
One of the things my Daughter’s elementary school is doing to raise money is to save the "Box Tops for Education" logos from General Mills & Betty Crocker products. The General Mills Box Tops for Education are each worth 10 cents and are found on such General Mills products as: Cheerios, Lucky Charms, Total, Fruit by the Foot, Fruit Roll-ups, Fruit Gushers, Dunkaroos, Yoplait Yogurt, Potato Buds, Suddenly Salad, Bisquick, Yoplait GoGurt yogurt, Bacos, Super moist cake mix, Betty Crocker frosting, Betty Crocker supreme brownies, Betty Crocker supreme dessert bars, Betty Crocker potato side dishes, Lloyd`s barbeque buckets, Hamburger Helper, Chicken Helper, and Tuna Helper and many other General Mills items.
Last year we collected over $600 for the school kids and the goal for the present school year is $1500. We had our October PTA meeting tonight (16th) and so far we have raised just over $200.00. That is a good start, but we need more. Thanks to all that have given and please help for those who are just reading this.
To see what the box tops look like, please see the following URL address.
www.boxtops4education.com/works/logo.asp
The logos do have an expiration date on them so please check them to make sure they are still current. So as you clip the logos from the various General Mills & Betty Crocker packages, please check to make sure the expiration date is far enough in advance that when I receive them from you they will still be valid. I am assuming that General Mills sets these expiration dates far enough into the future so that folks can collect them for the entire school year and turn them in at the end of the school year and still get credit for them.
By the way, I personally will be collecting them throughout the year and will add them to the PTA’s collection at every monthly meeting.
As an incentive, Anyone bidding on an auction of mine using the buy it now or take it now option and sends box tops will get free shipping to anywhere in the USA.
If anyone would rather send them without bidding on an auction and is interested in saving these for my kids or wishes to send them directly to the school, please send me an email at [email protected] and I can send you the address on which you can send them.
My kids, the kids at the school and myself thank you all.
One look at the original post date of the threads says it all. I could provide more examples from each and every forum I posted this request on, but folks only need to see the information once to know exactly who was copying whom.
posted on April 22, 2002 07:17:13 PM new
Yes Sally, I remember when that happened. Very obvious that you were the orignator.
bidsbids, all he did (he is a registered user so he can't help with unregistered users) was put his auctions on ad nauseum relist *wink* and walk away. Not a big secret. He hasn't found a way to post new auctions or add special enhancements for free.
Hope everyone has a nice evening, sun is still shining here
posted on April 22, 2002 07:52:17 PM new
That's hardly a glitch. The old '600 days auto-relist' trick. I bet a lot of sellers did that when the $5 deadline approached this January. There's still about 500 more days left on all of those types of auctions. BV should go down to only 10 relists to cut that stuff to 300 day runs, which still seems very long.
Aloha
