posted on September 15, 2000 01:34:25 AM new
I was upgraded to a business account unwillingly while investigating PPs upgrade procedure (there is no final "upgrade now" button, so you find yourself witha business account before you know it).
I emailed PP and told them to change my account back to a personal one. I just received a reply which I think others here will be interested in:
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
I apologize for the trouble we have caused you by not taking care of this situation for you sooner. Please be informed that I am forwarding your account information to our "Business Downgrade Department". As business downgrades are a manual process, it may take 1-3 business days after the downgrade request is submitted for the downgrade to be completed. Since PayPal accounts are client motivated irregardless of the account status, I must regrettably inform you that you will not be reimbursed for ANY of the fees incurred on your account because of your accidental upgrade. To keep any unwanted charges from being applied to your account, I will suggest limiting or ending any/all activity on the account until the correction is made. Your patience and patronage are appreciated, again I apologize for any inconvenience we have caused you.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.
Sincerely,
Sche
PayPal Customer Service
PayPal - A Business Solution From X.com
===========================================
We at X.com would like to know how well this response
accommodated your request. Click on the appropriate link to send
your feedback. We welcome your comments.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:53:45 AM new
bunnicula -- I was wondering how that would turn out, since I was "magically" upgraded too.
I think it's crappy that they won't reimburse any fees charged during that time! They sure don't seem interested in keeping the customers they have, huh?
I've decided to stay upgraded as a Premier account for now (at least until October 1 when the per-transaction fee rolls out) since technically I am a "seller", but PP is on very, very thin ice as far as keeping my business is concerned. The next 2 weeks will determine whether or not I keep using them ... after the dust is settled and all. Depending on what happens, I may or may not end up cancelling my account. (There's a post on a thread in E.O. about it; I've seen enough copy-and-paste lately so I ain't gonna repeat it. ) Right now I'm 60% may cancel, 40% may not.
She/he? suggests "limiting or ending any/all activity on the account until the correction is made" .... sheesh. Like you can control when people pay you.
(edited to add: YOUR accidental upgrade?!?!?!? Good grief!!! And all we did was hit the button to get more information!)
[ edited by thedewey on Sep 15, 2000 01:56 AM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 06:21:32 AM new
So are they going to fix the problem or keep letting people accidentally upgrade their accounts??
I almost clicked on that button to get more info but got sidetracked ( a good thing for once). I was lucky that I happened to read Bunnicula's post before I got back to PP's site.
Every other time I have looked around on PP's site, there have been additional info or prompts before you committed yourself to signing up for something. Considering how things are going, I have serious doubts that this was an oversight on PayPal's part. VERY SCARY when you can't navigate through their site without worrying about what will happen with one lousy click!
So, was it an oversight, in which case they will fix it, or was it intentional? I think we will know by what they do next, eh?
Oh, and IRREGARDLESS is not a word. Prolly best not to bold it. (Since PayPal accounts are client motivated irregardless of the account status, I must regrettably inform you that you will not be reimbursed for ANY of the fees incurred on your account because of your accidental upgrade.)
posted on September 15, 2000 08:38:49 AM new"VERY SCARY when you can't navigate through their site without worrying about what will happen with one lousy click!"
It sounds kind of like walking into a realtor, being asked if you are interested in buying a house, answering yes, then being told right then and there, "Great! Here's your house. Congratulations for buying it, now we'll need your first month's payment...."
posted on September 15, 2000 04:08:54 PM new
I'd really love to hear what the Great and Powerful PayPalDamon has to tell us about this situation. With the exception of the email that Bunnicula reprinted here, there has been absolutely NO comment from any of Paypal's vermin on this subject.
It does take the "bait and switch" philosophy of the company to a new level though.
posted on September 15, 2000 04:55:02 PM new
You guys, this is even more reason to close your accounts with PP. They can NOT be trusted. I am honoring my ongoing auctions w/PP payment option, but letting all my customers know that we will not be accepting anymore PayPal payments after 10-1-00. This is all just too scary for me. I don't like anyone "messing" with my money or playing the "bait & switch" games. And now this, upgrading someone in this manner...I'm afraid to even go into my PayPal account now...But I will, darn it, that is MY money & I'm keeping it cleaned out every day until Oct. 1 - then it's closed for me.
posted on September 15, 2000 05:27:09 PM new
abacaxi -- I don't know if it was the same for Bunnicula (I believe it was), but in my case, no questions were ever asked. No questions about tax ID numbers, about my business itself ... nothing at all!
Once that button was hit, it was a Done Deal. Upgraded. Blam!
posted on September 16, 2000 12:44:37 AM newthedewey: Nope, no questions whatsoever--and I had gone looking to see what *was* being asked, since others have said PP is asking for all kinds of additional info. One second I was clicking to indicate that I had read the TOS and the next...I found myself upgraded. Especially ludricous as I have refused to be "verified." An unverified business account--that takes the cake, doesn't it?
Their reply says it takes 1 to 3 days to change an account back to "personal." Astounding, when they changed it into a business account faster than you can say Jack Robinson! I just checked--they haven't changed it back yet. Must be hoping that someone will send a payment to me so they can skim off their share before doing the deed. The joke's on them, however, since I have been taking a short vacation from auctioning...
edited to put the "b" in being.
{sigh} and to remove a needless "r"--I wish I could type!
[ edited by bunnicula on Sep 16, 2000 12:45 AM ]
[ edited by bunnicula on Sep 16, 2000 12:47 AM ]
posted on September 17, 2000 04:05:25 AM new
Ok, add my name to the list of 'accidentally upgraded' accounts I too wrote the right away and here's the letter I got:
I have requested that your account be downgraded to Personal
Account status. This should be completed by the end of the day
and an email will be sent to you as soon as it is completed.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.
Sincerely,
Joe
PayPal Customer Service
PayPal - A Business Solution From X.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Needless to say it was not completed yesterday as promised, nor today. Plus I have received 2 payments after it was supposed to be completed by and of course I got charged. I wrote back asking for credit after I received the first payment. No response yet...
And I was just looking around for more info like bunnicula! Sheesh
~~MouseSlayer is not a cat =^..^= ~~
Yes, I'm MouseSlayer everywhere. It's a great name, so I use it!
posted on September 18, 2000 12:33:11 AM new
I found this gem today:
"It’s fast and simple to upgrade your personal account in
order to take advantage of these premium features. Please keep
in mind that businesses using PayPal are required by our terms
of use to create a Business Account. To upgrade, just login to
your PayPal account and click on the "Upgrade Now" button. The
upgrade process only takes a couple of minutes, and you’ll be
able to use our new payment tools immediately." (this was something PPD posted on another thread, pasted from the PayPal site)
It'll take a couple of minutes?? Nah, I think the immediately at the end of the statement is more accurate. So has it been fixed yet or has anyone gotten un-upgraded yet?
posted on September 18, 2000 11:00:18 AM new
Hi bunnicula,
I checked with engineering and cs. There is no way that you would have been upgraded without clicking the button to do so. I had them test it several times.
posted on September 18, 2000 01:10:30 PM new
Damon -
It's probably the WORDING on the button. does it say "click here to upgrade your account", or does it say something else?
posted on September 18, 2000 01:45:12 PM new
Damon -- I hit the button expecting a screen to come up with a bunch of questions ... business information, tax ID number, etc. Quite a few people have mentioned getting this screen in other threads, and I wanted to see what information was required to upgrade.
No screen like that ever came up.
The next screen I got said that I had been upgraded. It didn't take minutes; it took seconds.
I was most likely going to upgrade anyway when the shopping cart feature rolls out, which is part of the reason I have not requested to be downgraded. The other part of the reason is that, yes, I am a seller.
And I'm also a seller who's re-evaluating accepting PP as a form of payment. I don't have a problem with the 1.9%. I DO have a problem with the $.25-per-transaction fee. I hope that PP will at least consider some sort of compromise on this, especially on low-dollar sales where profit is minimal at best. At this point, I've not yet determined whether I can afford to give PP a slice of the pie. It's not looking good, to be honest with you.
posted on September 18, 2000 05:08:22 PM newPayPalDamon: since I am not the only one to have had this problem, I think you should step back & examine your screens before saying "there is no way" this could happen. It did. It does. Face it: there *is* no final 'this is going to upgrade your account' notice. Someone glancing through to see just what is necessary for an upgrade finds that it has happened before they know it.
BTW, it has now been 4 days & they still haven't changed the account back to personal, although the email I got said 1-3 days. And how come so long anyway, as it took mere seconds to *upgrade* it on me?
posted on September 18, 2000 05:13:06 PM new
Hi bunnicula,
I had them test it more than once to be sure. The downgrade should occur shortly. If you send me your email address again, I can escalate this through customer service.
posted on September 18, 2000 05:35:32 PM new
Hi bunnicula,
I sent your email address to customer service to have the downgrade occur asap. I am also having engineering double-check your login versus clickthrough information (again).
posted on September 18, 2000 05:51:18 PM new
Hi bunnicula,
I also checked the time you logged in to the account versus the time that the upgrade account selection was made. It may be a moot point at the moment, but between the time you logged in and pressed upgrade was nearly a six-minute gap.
I had exactly the same problem bunnicula had. As I recall, the popup screen came up and there were three choices: I'm not a seller, Premier, and Business. I clicked on Premier, thinking I would get an explanation of the benefits. Nope, not one explanation. the next screen said something like "Congratulations on your upgrade." You can imagine my annoyance. TThe next day I spoke via phone to Paul, using my handy dandy Premier phone number and told him to downgrade me. And the account was downgraded to personal in 24 hours.
The page design, in my mind, was egregious (sp?) and designed to trick people into upgrading. There was no notification that by pressing a button the account would be upgraded.
posted on September 18, 2000 07:09:56 PM new
Damon -
I'm not sure you are understanding what is being said about the "unwilling upgrades". Everyone this has happened to has admitted that they clicked on the button. The problem is that they weren't ready to upgrade yet, they were just looking for information. Whatever the wording was on the button, it obviously wasn't clear that it was a "click here to upgrade" button, rather it appeared to be a link to information about those account types.
My understanding that this could not have happened with the way of the layout. Can each of the users please give me their step-by-step as to what they did? If they need to downgrade, they simply need to contact me at [email protected] and I will escalate through CS.
posted on September 18, 2000 09:37:19 PM newPayPalDamon: I have already given you the step-by-step on how this happened to me. As for the 6 minutes you refer to--I was reading the TOS, as requested. Read them twice. So sue me--I took my time & read slowly.
Hint: as I and others have noted--the upgrade process has *no* final button that says "click here to finalize upgrade" or words to that effect. WHY NOT PUT ONE IN? Obviously, I am not the only one that was sucked in.
posted on September 18, 2000 11:12:24 PM new
Damon -- Same here! There was no warning that touching that button would mean we were about to be instantly upgraded. There was no "Are you sure?" button, or any other thing asking for confirmation. No questions were asked. Nothing about a tax ID number, no business-related questions ... nothing!
Just a follow-up screen saying that we were upgraded!
Obviously there are several of us here on AW alone that were instantly upgraded, and who knows how many more.
IMO, not having a confirmation button (or SOME kind of warning that you're about to be upgraded) comes across as just a sneaky tactic to get more people to upgrade.
If that's not the case, wouldn't it be better to add a confirmation screen that the user has to agree to before being upgraded? Or at least make the button or surrounding text warn that pressing the button WILL INSTANTLY upgrade one's account?
posted on September 19, 2000 03:06:09 AM new
I guess you need to either give PPD a keystroke-by-keystroke description or take a video of yourself while you do it and show him that.
I expect the "trying to read every message" cut-ant-paste disclaimer soon, as well a repeat of the new "the way of the layout" one.
I find in particularly interesting that the Great and Powerful PayPalDamon has taken it upon himself to imply to everyone that actually taking the time (i.e. 6 minutes) to read the information before pushing the button is somehow wrong or deceitful on Bunnicula's part, when the deceit lies entire in his and his company's lap.
The fact that he would post such tracking information (irrelevant though it may be) in a public forum without the prompting or permission of Bunnicula throws even more light onto the true nature of PPD and his company.
posted on September 19, 2000 05:52:17 AM new
Has anyone actually had this screen come up more than once on their account? It popped up once for me. I backed out without selecting any of the options -- and I've never seen the screen again.
But I know exactly what these people are talking about, Damon. I'm really glad I didn't click on any buttons!
posted on September 19, 2000 10:40:53 AM new
Hi bunnicula,
I am not accusing you of anything, but I do need to be able to have QA recreate the issues to see where the confusion lies. I will report the potential of adding an upgrade portion where it asks,, "Are you sure you want to upgrade?" Perhaps this would minimize the risk for error.
posted on September 19, 2000 10:53:59 AM new
"Minimize the risk for error"????
Goshers and geewillikers, maybe doing something like that would eliminate the entire problem completely!
For crissakes, Damon...the entire problem is the fact that people clicking on the links that supposedly were to give them the INFORMATION ON UPGRADES were in fact UPGRADING THEM!
It is downright deceitful, and probably unlawful, for you and paypal to be handling this matter in such a cavalier manner. You have given the term "bait and switch" a worse name than it already had.
) Right now I'm 60% may cancel, 40% may not.
