posted on March 6, 2005 06:02:44 AM new
Hey, if you are a poor or middle class family who hope their kids can go to college. Please read the article below and make up their own minds about what this White House is doing to your family. Since most families don't read this board please copy this article and give it to all your friends with kids getting ready for college.
Notice the paragraph that shows there is a big difference between what this White House says and what it really does.
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The article below is from the Portland State University News
Pell Grants to be eliminated for many low-income students
Reductions will leave students scrambling to fill the funding gap
Sue Pesznecker
February 18, 2005
A new formula for calculating eligibility for college financial aid will eliminate federal Pell Grants for up to 80,000 to 90,000 low-income students and will affect funding levels for up to 1 million others.
The change, announced by the U.S. Department of Education (DOE) Dec. 23, will also force other types of state and federal assistance to scale back their financial aid programs.
Besides those who will lose their Pell Grants completely, "we estimate about 1.3 million students will see reductions of $100 to $300 per year," said Terry Hartle, senior vice president of the American Council on Education, a trade association representing 2,000 public and private colleges and universities.
The Bush administration supports the new formula and estimates the federal government's savings at $300 million in the 2005-2006 academic year alone.
Although revisions to the financial aid calculation formula are supposed to be made regularly, the formula used by the DOE for the past 14 years was based on 1990 figures. The newly revised version will reference tax data from 2002.
This threatens to create a serious financial disconnect. In 1990, state and local taxes were higher on average than they are today. As a result, the new, recalibrated formula will make families appear to have more income available for this year's college expenses than they did last year.
Sen. Jon S. Corzine, D-New Jersey, was "outraged that the Bush administration is going forward with these punitive cuts," adding that the change in the eligibility rules was "nothing more than a backdoor effort to cut student aid funding."
Proponents of the new plan claim that the neediest students - those who receive maximum Pell Grants of $4,050 - will be unaffected by the changes, and that only a fraction of the 5.3 million Pell recipients will lose their grants entirely.
"Our projections show that nearly half the Pell Grant recipients won't see any change at all, and on average the losses [for those affected] will be less than $100," said Susan Aspey, DOE spokeswoman.
Nonetheless, those affected will feel the hit.
"I don't think it means students won't go to school," said Hartle. "But they will have to borrow more money on credit cards, work longer hours or take fewer classes."
Advocates of federal student aid point out that the present maximum grant of $4,050 covers only one-third of average college costs (tuition, fees, room and board) and is patently inadequate.
The Pell Grant is a federal entitlement program that gives money to students enrolled in eligible programs of study at approved postsecondary institutions in the United States and abroad. Created in 1972 by former Sen. Claiborne Pell, the program began in 1973 and was fully implemented in 1976.
Unlike local and federal loans, Pell Grants are not repaid, making them a highly desirable type of funding. Almost one-third of US college students receive Pell funds.
Application for Pell funds is made through the FAFSA (Free Application for Financial Student Aid), which is completed annually.
The Pell has four absolute requirements: applicants must be undergraduates, must be working on their first undergraduate degree, must be attending a federally approved school and must not be incarcerated in a state or federal prison.
To receive a Pell Grant, students must also demonstrate financial need. This is determined through the student's Estimated Family Contribution, a figure calculated by the FAFSA. About 90 percent of the families with students receiving Pell Grants have an income of less than $35,000 a year.
Eligible students may receive anything from a few hundred dollars to the maximum Pell award of $4,050. The average award is about $2,400 a year. Currently there are some 5 million Pell recipients.
Because many states use federal formulas to calculate aid for students at state universities, the Pell changes will have a ripple effect, with students also finding themselves less qualified for state financial aid and even for scholarship assistance. Eligibility for subsidized federal student loans could also be affected.
Although the Pell Grant program has grown steadily since its inception, need threatens to outstrip availability. The program is driven by an escalating number of minority and low-income high school graduates, with projections forecasting the high school graduating class of 2008 as the largest in U.S. history.
Despite this, the last Pell increase ($50) occurred three years ago, and the average U.S. college student graduates with a $17,000 debt.
"The real thing that's unfortunate is that the Pell Grant isn't going up," said Sarah Flanagan, vice president for government relations of the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities. "If the maximum were making even moderate increases, all these people on the margin wouldn't fall out of the program."
Last year Congress approved $12.4 billion for Pell Grants for 2005. The total represented an increase of $400 million from 2004 but was half of what was requested.
President Bush has frozen the maximum Pell Grant at $4,050 for the fiscal year 2005 education budget. This is the third year in a row that Bush has frozen or cut the maximum Pell, an act that conflicts with his campaign promise to raise the maximum Pell award to $5,100.
The Pell program itself is in deficit, a casualty of the burst dotcom bubble, when many people returned to school in order to retool for a new career. To date, the government has borrowed more than $3.6 billion in order to provide Pell Grants to those eligible under the formula.
posted on March 6, 2005 07:24:19 AM new
Here is your problem Cheryl.
but voters rejected the November issue. Now, officials say they must cut $28 million from the 2005-06.
These same voters are the ones that pay to educate the children and evidently they don't want to so you think the Federal Government should step in?
Now in your statement you said layoffs. That means if there is a chance they will come back. I said fire the teacher that doesn't live up to the standard of the school, but the union stands behind them so they almost are never fired. If they fired those teachers then there would be jobs for the good teachers. Whether they have been teaching 1 year or 30 they should never be given tenure. Do you get tenure? I will bet that you if you aren't doing your job you would be let go. The teachers are protected by that union. These are the same teachers that are not teaching the children.
posted on March 6, 2005 08:43:15 AM new
Well, Libra, there are a couple of reasons the levy was rejected. First of all, there are no good jobs left here in Cleveland. Cleveland is a manufacturing jobs city and they've been shipped overseas. To see the empty steel mills is a sad site. To watch them tear down Midland Steel was even sadder. I had to pass by that every day on my way to work. People simply cannot afford to have their property taxes increased. Heck, they cannot afford to put gas in their cars. Secondly, when you are paying a school CEO $350,000 per year (and she doesn't even live in the city) and then begin crying that the system needs money, people are going to look at you funny and walk away. That's why I didn't vote for the levy.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 6, 2005 09:06:58 AM new
libra, there are CEO's of big corporations who cheated there employees and customers out of millions of dollars, ran their companies out of business......whether they kept their jobs or not....they made MILLIONS!
But, of course, let's save education by firing teachers!
posted on March 6, 2005 09:09:44 AM new
libra, there are CEO's of big corporations who cheated there employees and customers out of millions of dollars, ran their companies out of business......whether they kept their jobs or not....they made MILLIONS!
But, of course, let's save education by firing teachers!
posted on March 6, 2005 10:00:53 AM new
Cheryl guess what the area where I lived is similar to Cleveland and Pittsburg. I lived in Northern Minnesota where everyone depended on the Iron Ore but it is gone and life moves on. They have depleted the ore mines and the taconite.
Crowfarm that has also been happening for quite some time. Enron must have been doing it for years now you blame it on the Republicans. There was no regulations but is that the Republicans fault? Just because the Republicans are in office doesn't mean that everything is their fault. Put the blame where the blame belongs on the corporations themselves. If you start regulating everything then we are not a democracy anymore. If everyone expects the government to police everything then we might as well give up. We are accountable for our own actions. I would like it to stay that way but some others would like it to change.
Why are we responsible to educate everyone? There are many technical jobs that require very little education. There are also technical colleges that their tuition is way below the state and national colleges. Why does everyone have to go to an expensive college. My daughter went to a technical college took a 9 month course and now is making $18.00 an hour. She has a great career. Look inside your community to see what there is to offer before going out of the state where everything is more expensive.
posted on March 6, 2005 10:15:04 AM new
libra says, ""Crowfarm that has also been happening for quite some time. Enron must have been doing it for years now you blame it on the Republicans.""""
WHERE did I blame it on the Republicans??
"""Why are we responsible to educate everyone?"""
Because in a civilized, INTELLIGENT society education is highly prized.
People realize without it society at large will suffer.
The more educated a country is, the more successful are it's inhabitants.
They get better jobs and contribute to all of society.
They are less likely to be poor and/or unhappy.....in some countries the devastating poverty leads to terrorism!
Why don't you Republicans ever want to pay taxes for things like education?
Besides , Lala, if children were all home schooled who'd police them to see if they chant the "Pledge" everyday?
posted on March 6, 2005 12:04:24 PM new
Hey Libra and Linda K, I haven't heard from either of you about the statement below. Is the statement below true or false. A simple true or false answer from you both would be nice but if you both have more (smoke screens) left go ahead and post your smoke screens for all to read. Hey L sisters we will all be waiting for your answers.
President Bush has frozen the maximum Pell Grant at $4,050 for the fiscal year 2005 education budget. This is the third year in a row that Bush has frozen or cut the maximum Pell, an act that conflicts with his campaign promise to raise the maximum Pell award to $5,100.
I BELIEVE THE STATEMENT ABOVE IS JUST ONE MORE EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS WHITE HOUSE DUPED MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE FOR THEIR VOTE.
posted on March 6, 2005 01:12:37 PM new
Hey Libra do you really feel this way about education? Libra63 said. "Why are we responsible to educate everyone? There are many technical jobs that require very little education. There are also technical colleges that their tuition is way below the state and national colleges. Why does everyone have to go to an expensive college. My daughter went to a technical college took a 9 month course and now is making $18.00 an hour. She has a great career.
Looks to me Libra's words are again a statement from her that really shows her mindset of, as long as me and mine got ours the hell with the rest of ya. What a greedy old self-centered bag Libra63 is. Libra in other posts tries to portray herself as a woman with morals. LOL
Then Libra63 tells Cheryl, I lived in Northern Minnesota" "where I lived is similar to Cleveland and Pittsburgh" Can't you all see were this woman's uninformed mindset is coming from. Right Libra63, I am sure you know all about living and seeing life in urban cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I wounder if Libra63 has ever spent time with people that work their ass off and still don't make enough to buy gas or food or have a choice about how much and where their kids get an education. I am betting that Libra63 has never lived very far from her beautiful Northern Minnesota. I wounder if Libra has ever seen people living under bridges and freezing to death. I wounder if Libra has ever spent time in poor urban areas in people homes and on the street corners talking to people and trying to help them. I am talking about spending real time there not just driving through. Libra63 lives in her own little LA LA Land and good for her. Libra63 don't you DARE start giving advice to Cherly about Cleveland becaue YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN CLEVELAND OHIO.
posted on March 6, 2005 03:25:04 PM new
Well bigpeepa don't get so hot under the collar. I guess I got you riled up. No need to swear.
I understand Cleveland and also Pittsburg. I lived in a small town that was run by the railroad that produced the iron ore for the steel mills. I know about what happened to the steel. Don't tell me what I don't know. But what I don't do is over charge democrats for anything like you do the republicans and you laugh about it.
Technical colleges are just as good as the state and national colleges and it doesn't take a boat load of money to go to them. Do you understand that bigpeepa. It doesn't matter what college you attend. If you can't afford the major ones then go to the ones you can afford. I was explaining to you if you can get it through your pea brain that it is possible to get a good education at your local technical college.
I can't wait for the day gas jumps to $2.50 a gallon. You will be in here crabbing more.
posted on March 6, 2005 03:58:50 PM new
Pell Grant
Pell Grant. Does every student qualify?
First and foremost, the Federal Pell Grant is free money for college! Pell Grants do not have to be repaid. The Federal Pell Grant is an entitlement and therefore, everyone who qualifies will receive the Pell Grant! AND, one other thing, there is no Pell grant application!
How do you apply for a Pell grant? It is simple. When you file the FAFSA form for college, the government determines what you can afford to pay for college. They use a formula or "methodology" to determine your Family Contribution. The amount of the Pell grant is awarded based on the Family Contribution. Keep in mind that the amount of a Pell grant will be decreased directly in relation to the Family Contribution so that together the grant and the Family Contribution do not exceed the cost of attendance.
The Pell Grant provides a "foundation" for financial aid, to which aid from other sources may be added. It is the government's largest grant program in terms of cost, and is for undergraduates only. The government does not consider other sources of aid and presumes the Federal Pell Grant is the first source of aid to the student. The maximum amount of a Federal Pell Grant is adjusted annually to correlate with funding, so it varies from year to year. It should be noted that the minimum Pell Grant award is $200.00.
Please do not pay to have one of these online Grant companies tell you that everyone qualifies for a Pell grant. Chances are if your family's adjusted gross income is over $40,000 or so, the student will not qualify for the Pell grant. But do not despair just because you do not qualify for a Pell grant; that does not mean you will not qualify for ANY financial aid!
posted on March 6, 2005 04:07:46 PM new
U-M seeks diversity with more tuition aid
Number of black freshmen dropped almost 15 percent last year after court ruling.
By Marisa Schultz / The Detroit News
M-PACT grants
U-M announced today a new financial aid program to increase grants and reduce loans for more than 2,900 in-state undergraduate students at the Ann Arbor campus.
The grants will be available beginning fall 2005.
The program is needed to make college more affordable. As state funding for colleges has declined and tuition for undergraduates has risen on average 4.9 percent each year for six years, student loan debts have also been on the rise.
U-M will spend from private gifts at least $3 million per year for the program's first three years. Meanwhile, Coleman announced the ongoing "The Michigan Difference" campaign will begin a focused fund-raising effort to raise a permanent endowment of at least $60 million.
The grants will be awarded on a sliding scale, with the full $1,500 grant going to students who are eligible for a full Pell grant based on family need. Other students will received $1,000 and $500 grants based on eligibility.
A new financial aid program that will make the University of Michigan more affordable to 2,900 lower-income undergraduates at the Ann Arbor campus was unveiled today by university President Mary Sue Coleman.
During remarks prepared for a speech on diversity and college affordability, Coleman outlined her plan, called M-PACT, which will increase grants and reduce loans for students who qualify.
The speech came against a backdrop of a decline in black student enrollment in the wake of a U.S. Supreme Court decision that threw out major elements of an undergraduate admissions policy.
"We have to reach out with special attention to our neediest students if we hope to achieve true economic diversity on our campuses," Coleman said in her remarks in Chicago at the Midwest regional forum of the College Board.
Financial aid is a very important factor for black students in choosing a college, said Charlene Dobbs, a black U-M freshman from Detroit who has relied on partial scholarships.
"Coming from Detroit, I would say I'm middle class. And if (the university) wants to increase minority enrollment, the majority of them are from Detroit, and the majority of them need financial aid," said Dobbs, who is studying engineering.
But the trick in boosting minority enrollment will be publicizing financial aid opportunities.
"If they are gong to make financial aid more available, they have to make our students know that. ... If that's publicized then the minority count in Detroit will go up. A lot of them are already discouraged."
Said Coleman, " "Our country cannot afford to leave talented young people behind, and data show us that qualified students from low-income families are sometimes turned away because the barrier is just too steep."
Shanta Driver, one of the national leaders of a group called By Any Means Necessary, which favors affirmative action, applauded the move.
"It will have a real impact in terms of being able to increase black student applications and will have a real impact in minority retention in the university. The biggest reason black students drop out of the college is because of lack of financial resources," she said.
Terry Pell, president of the Center of Individual Rights, which filed the lawsuit that ended the undergraduate admissions policy at U-M, also praised the program Coleman announced today.
"I think it's admirable the university is creating opportunities for low-income students regardless of race," Pell said. "I think it's a big step forward."
The M-PACT program will increase undergraduate grants from all sources to more than $55 million a year, with $33 million of that from the university's own resources. The M-PACT plan will be funded by $3 million per year for the first three years from private gifts to U-M.
Under the program, M-PACT will increase need-based grant assistance to $12,200 a year for students in the lowest income level, such as those who are eligible for a full Pell grant currently worth $4,050.
Although the new program will bring the greatest amount of assistance to families at the lowest end of the income scale - with incomes of about $20,000 depending on family size and other factors -- M-PACT also is designed to support students whose families may earn slightly more than the amount needed to qualify for a Pell grant -- typically in the range of $50,000 to $70,000 per year.
The program will be open to Michigan undergraduates in the fall 2005 semester. Grants will be awarded in $1,500, $1,000 and $500 packages.
For a typical first-year student at the lowest income level, the new program means that combined grants and work-study programs will cover more than 80 percent of attendance, including tuition, room and board and books. Half of all college students fail to even apply for financial aid, Coleman said. Research suggests that 850,000 of those students likely would have qualified for a Pell grant.
Julie Peterson, spokeswoman for the university, said the grant program will benefit low income students, regardless of their race or ethnicity.
A ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court forced U-M to quickly revamp its application process, which added two 250-word essays to the previous 500-word essay that was required. The high court upheld the university's Law School admissions policy, which uses race as one factor in admissions decisions.
U-M has worked to increase black applicants through outreach and education campaigns. The school aims to improve contacts with high schools with large minority populations in cities.
It appears the efforts have paid off. Total applications to the university have increased about 13 percent this year, Coleman announced Monday. And applications from underrepresented minority groups are up more than 14 percent.
"So far the trend for admitted students looks even better than that," Coleman said. "So we are on the right track."
You can reach Marisa Schultz at (734) 462-2203 or [email protected].
I don't think you fully understand the situation here. On any given day, you run across the homeless. Not just men, but women with children as well. The shelters are full and the food banks have been empty more than once over the past year. Business men in suits walk over them sleeping on the steam grates downtown. Housing assistance? There's a five year wait. So, if you can make yourself comfortable living under a bridge for five years. . . You will never be able to fully understand the situation until you've had the opportunity to live in what is called the poorest city in the nation. How many housing projects do you come across everyday? I'd hardly even call it housing. The crime is so bad, most mothers don't allow their children to play outside. The thugs have taken over because the police force has been cut to the bone as have the fire departments. You'd better keep your hand gun close by because by the time you got a police officer to your home, you'd be dead. So, we're not just talking steel mills and manufacturing plants. We're talking teachers, police, janitors (yes, the schools have laid most of them off), firemen and more. You have a hard time even getting a job at McDonald's around here. The jobs are filled. I'm fortunate and so are my children. The jobs we have don't pay much, but we have them. I could be earning over $40,000/yr if those jobs still existed. So, I'll be happy making my $8 an hour and slaving away on eBay.
Back to the border issue. Most of you that call yourselves republican, scream and hollar over the illegal aliens in this country. It doesn't bother you then that the borders are so easily crossed and that much needed money is not being used to protect them? I'd think you'd be screaming the loudest.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 6, 2005 04:59:45 PM new
libra you don't like it when I post twice but I may have to to get you to address this post. I asked you a question.
libra says, ""Crowfarm that has also been happening for quite some time. Enron must have been doing it for years now you blame it on the Republicans.""""
WHERE did I blame it on the Republicans??
"""Why are we responsible to educate everyone?"""
Because in a civilized, INTELLIGENT society education is highly prized.
People realize without it society at large will suffer.
The more educated a country is, the more successful are it's inhabitants.
They get better jobs and contribute to all of society.
They are less likely to be poor and/or unhappy.....in some countries the devastating poverty leads to terrorism!
Why don't you Republicans ever want to pay taxes for things like education?
Besides , Lala, if children were all home schooled who'd police them to see if they chant the "Pledge" everyday?
posted on March 6, 2005 05:30:49 PM new
That's pretty scary Cheryl. I still can't understand why Ohio went republican. Did Bush promise to help your state or something?
posted on March 6, 2005 06:17:22 PM new
lol.. not quite classic but not to much later.
Cheryl I hate to contradict you but the Canadian borders have some pretty good coverage. As I previously posted they have installed computer generated finger prints and in 50 border crossings they have this feature. The mexican border is another subject and they would try anything and everywhere to cross to get to the US. That's a tough border to patrol.
And as for the subject of the thread someone started talking about Pell Grants so it was trashed awhile ago.
You say you have a Republican Govenor, we have a Democratic one. Wisconsin is the #2 state with the highest taxes. Hawaii is 1st.
What are they trying to do for Cleveland. Doesn't someone have a plan? When Chrysler went out here everyone said Kenosha would fail but they made it through. Most of Kenosha either worked at Chrysler. I understand the problems but the Federal Government can't bail out every state. Every state is in trouble with high taxes, Our govenor wanted to raise the minimum wage to $6.50 It failed. but that will put the little guy out of business. I know the place where I worked would fail. He is going to get rid of I think they said today 18,000 state jobs.
They are building a Casino here about 5 miles away from us and I think the state hopes to generate money from that. It will help our economy just a little bit. We rent but house taxes are terrible. Many want to blame it on the Republicans but if both sides can't come to a mutual agreement instead of a he said she said argument nothing will get solved. We are a nation divided and I for one do not think John Kerry would have done any better. If I thought he would have I would have voted for him. If he was elected the Republicans would be fighting the democrats and Ted Kennedy. So what do you recommend? Families cannot have children because houses are expensive. The auto show was just in Milwaukee and Car prices are out of this world. The middle or lower income famlies cannot afford to buy cars.. Is that the Republicans fault? Everyone wants to make the big bucks and that leaves the little person way behind.
Instead of fighting what is the solution?
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[ edited by Libra63 on Mar 6, 2005 06:28 PM ]
posted on March 6, 2005 06:33:11 PM new
And as for you crowfarm I will post to you when you start posting as an adult. When you post you sound dumber than my granddaughter at 9. Also when are you going to learn how to post. You never post anything substantial it is always gibberish.
Evidently you have some kind of a problem as you can't remember how many times you post the same discussion.
_________________
posted on March 6, 2005 06:53:54 PM new
Cheryl I searched "supertendent of Cleveland Schools and here is the website I got. It looks as though you have been having problems for a number of years.
posted on March 6, 2005 06:56:23 PM new
Oh libra, don't you ever get tired of making excuses for not answering questions ????
I didn't use any "cryptic" language so you had to find another excuse...you are so lame.....
In response to ***Y O U R ***question...,""""Why are we responsible to educate everyone?"""
I answered:
""Because in a civilized, INTELLIGENT society education is highly prized.
People realize without it society at large will suffer.
The more educated a country is, the more successful are it's inhabitants.
They get better jobs and contribute to all of society.
They are less likely to be poor and/or unhappy.....in some countries the devastating poverty leads to terrorism! ""
If you think this is gibberish you must be brain dead.
libra says, ""Crowfarm that has also been happening for quite some time. Enron must have been doing it for years now you blame it on the Republicans.""""
posted on March 6, 2005 07:46:22 PM new
Cheryl - NEITHER dems nor republicans want to totally shut the borders....and the dems fight each and every move this President has done/tried to do to further protect this Nation.
The 9-11 terrorists came in to this country during the clinton administration....not the Bush administration - they'd been living here for more than two years.
And this President HAS made many changes and allocated much money for improvement. He's doing a h3ll of a lot more than the dems to protect us against the terrorists
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And if I were President [I'd never want to be] I'd work my hardest to eliminate ALL government grants. It's just more entitlement programs. Let their parents save for their education, let them earn it and pay for it themselves...and if absolutely necessary for the 'very successful high school ACHEIVER then give them a low interest rate government LOAN....to be paid back to the taxpayers who 'loaned' it to them, in say a 10 year period after completing their education.
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On the Pell grants....one again we see peepa has NO knowledge about his rantings. He believes some article that he doesn't post a link to, rather than looking to the actual stats themselves.
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[i]But the amount of money spent on the Pell Grant program has increased sharply over that same time period. The table to the left shows that total federal spending on the Pell Grant program has gone from about $6 billion in 1995-96 to an estimated $12.8 billion in 2005-06. The chart shows a trend that also is particularly notable: the precipitous growth seen in grants between 2001-02 and 2004-05, when spending jumped from $8.8 billion to $12 billion, an increase of 38 percent in just three years.
For fiscal year 2005 (which started on October 1, 2004), Congress is expected to increase total funding for the program by $800 million, making it one of the single largest spending increases in the $ 145 billion funding bill that covers the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education.
Indeed, for the first in recent memory, increased spending on Pell Grants will exceed the growth in research funding for the National Institutes of Health.
The cost of the program has increased because the number of students receiving grants has grown dramatically. Again, the chart shows that the number of students getting a Pell Grant has risen from 3.6 million students to 5.3 million-a gain of almost 50 percent-over a decade. Most of that growth, however, took place between 1999-2000 and 2004-05. This is not surprising. Historically, Pell Grant use declines when the economy is strong because workers find jobs easily. However, when the economy stumbles and jobs are not as plentiful, college enrollments (and the utilization of the Pell Grant program) grows as potential workers seek new or improved job skills.
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And Pell Grants are just ONE government grant....supposedly give only to the most needy....when in fact applications are rarely checked to verify income at all. So fraud in the system is expensive too and locks out other students who actually do qualify financially.
Also edited to add: Besides the FED grants....each state also offers students other grants, loans and scholarships.
Here's Portland's since he uses it as a model, rather than PA from where he claims he lives.
edited to change un-named source to not giving link so we could see who said what...and where they were getting their info from.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 6, 2005 08:04 PM ]
posted on March 6, 2005 08:10:25 PM new
Obviously not as stupid as those who thing the government [read taxpayers] should pay for those who don' WANT to earn their own way.
Has nothing at all to do with not wanting educated Americans. Has to do with who supports socialism/entitlements galore...and who supports believing everyone can work for what they want and not expect constant handouts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 6, 2005 08:51:34 PM new
Nothing at all unreasonable nor nasty about expecting a 'loan' to be repaid AFTER they have achieved their goal. Nothing unreasonable at all....except to those who support MORE and MORE government dependence, rather than giving the truly needy a 'helping hand'. If they pay back their loans then that money becomes available to 'loan' it to another needy person. Then the government doesn't keep going further and further into debt and have to listen to the 'redistributionists' complain about both issues.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
A casino here would be nice. There's one in Michigan and that's where the money is going. PA is looking into one as well. However, our good for nothing governor Taft (a religious conservative republican) will not allow it. He has promised to stop any from being put into operation. There are plans now for one in Lorain . The Cherokee nation wants to build one there. It's sinful, according to Taft, don't you know. You have to remember that Ohio actually has two very large bible belts and a very large farming community. They are the reason Bush was chosen here.
Actually, the schools were improving. Tiffany's won the blue ribbon award this school year. The problems started when all the money Cleveland had disappeared when Michael White left office. The wife beater made a great big mess and then did a great job of covering it up.
BTW, Americans should be ashamed of the educational system in this country. Every child, regardless of economic background, should have the opportunity to attend college. An educated America is a stronger and more respected America.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on March 7, 2005 04:25:31 AM new
"BTW, Americans should be ashamed of the educational system in this country. Every child, regardless of economic background, should have the opportunity to attend college. An educated America is a stronger and more respected America."
I agree with you cheryl-but do you know how much it costs these days? Whos going to pay for it?
posted on March 7, 2005 06:35:43 AM new
Congratulations to Tiffany. It shows that she is getting support from her family. That's the main thing. Education is not only for the schools but continues when school is over through families.
Cheryl, we have a democratic Governor and our state is in a mess also.
Not every child is college material. Not every child wants to go to college so the alternative is technical college. There are many decent jobs. i.e Medical transcription. Great career. 2 years training and the best part most work from their home, which gives the working mother an opportunity to be with their children and also making money. No babysitters. LPN, a stepping stone to being an RN. Dental assistant. There are many opportunities out their without going to college. There are too many college educated people and they can't find jobs that would pay the money to recoup their investment. Everyone wants to be a boss but that is impossible.
Well under our republican Governor our 1st casino attempt failed. The one proposing now is better laid out and will be better for the community. Now don't get me wrong gambling is not good but it is here and why not take advantage of it. There is a casino in Milwaukee that pays out practically nothing as they are to busy sponsoring big business. This one will be run by the Mohegans from Conn. but the money goes to the Menominee tribe. The city and council stand to make some big bucks, now lets see if the taxpayers get any relief. It won't be up and running for another year.
I sure hope they straighten out your school system soon. Have they done anything about the maintenance problem? That was sure a mess.
posted on March 7, 2005 08:14:12 AM new
liDUH says, "Obviously not as stupid as those who thing the government [read taxpayers] should pay for those who don' WANT to earn their own way.
Has nothing at all to do with not wanting educated Americans. Has to do with who supports socialism/entitlements galore...and who supports believing everyone can work for what they want and not expect constant handouts."""
But let's just ignore the tremendous "hand outs" given to off-shore companies who don't pay taxes !!!!!!!.....who do you think makes up for THOSE billions ?????
Some of those are given government contracts(WE pay for those) then they make a huge profit off America and then don't pay any taxes.
But, linduh, as a true neocon, thinks that's perfectly all right but let poor Americans ask for help for something as important as education and she's thinks they ""don' WANT to earn their own way. ""
No need to swear.
