posted on September 1, 2000 12:35:12 PM
I whittled my auction page TOS down to almost nothing. It basically says that when you get my EOA you email me your shipping address and get your payment in to me pronto.
I also state that I support eBay's NPB program, leave feedback, and appreciate my bidders who cooperate in a prompt transaction.
That's it. Why? Nobody reads anymore and if they do, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that I run a no-baloney auction. Deadbeats mostly stay away because they are guaranteed extra fuel to NARU land. I am happy to report that about 90% of my auctions are paid up in 10 days or less.
posted on September 1, 2000 01:00:01 PM
The originators posts in this thread are a perfect example of how not to run your business. Look what it did for him, his naru'd feedback file looks like a battleground, but he feels qualified to give advice to all and sundry on any and all matters. He remains a joke...........
posted on September 1, 2000 01:05:23 PM
well networker:
You may be right I may have a rud awakeing comeing but the key to this sucess is a good plan which includes more then one source for your item.
as to my level of inefficentcy I have about 200 items listed on two different auction sights yahoo and ebay .
this level of inefficentcy has produced $3000 in sale just in the last two weeks and I have another $1887 in starting bids listed.
in adult people here working them day jobs you rememend not giveing up produced little 0ver $650 in pay from them after taxes in that same two weeks.
if im correct it would take two and a half months to make this at the day jobs
pluss we may still have the day jobs but we now look at are Employers and can honestly say we are working cause we want to not because we have to :P
its above me to bicker or fight over this or anyother situation.
just know that any buyer who buys from you has no way of calulateing what fair profit is for the seller and there is no way to know what is the level of inefficentcy.
We are a family of 6 , here running this each with there own part, on the weekend when we take this family trip to do are buying there are 12 eyes that know good antiques collectables and what we sell what we can make on it and what we want to pay for it.
as far as over head here to run I have alway had the computer and provider and stuff so I dont count this even though sales now pay these costs this business started on $25 I was paid from alladvantage not even money from my pocket and it still runs on that same $25 it started on.
we have never had to travel anymore then a ten mile circle to find are items to sell we have many friend and relitives who stand behind what we do and Give us what they have had for years never used friend that offer us 30 to 50% to sell other items for them.
one friend just resently gave us a record collection from the 30s to the 70s no charge make what you can on them we no longer have the room there is over 5000 reacords box set and single 78s 45s 33s many many of these record autogarphed and in near new or never play condition. some still sealed never used.
I have not come close to looking all these over but I estimate this to be a year or more worth of items to sell with a value of many hunders or thousands of dollars all 100% profit even if I can only sell at .75 or $1 each.
maybe it cant continue maybe I have a rude awakeing as you sugest.
but business plans are an individual thing if its working dont fix it.
Im glad I made your day im gald I gave you a laugh is a heathy thing for sure.
the #3 rule in becomeing a sucessfull business is to shut off all the negitive people in your life there aditude .
posted on September 1, 2000 01:21:33 PM
networker67: I am in the midst of a mammoth offline project, so don't have time to read this entire thread, and won't be back til later tonight or tomorrow... I see you've originated all sortsa interesting looking threads, and I hope to get a chance to get my 1-sense in, lol.
Anyway, what I wanted to briefly mention is that this morning I read a biz news article that RETAIL SALES DURING AUGUST WERE DOWN FOURTEEN PERCENT.
Now, if this claim is correct, that retail sales SLOWED, down 14%, hmmm... what impact do you believe online cyberauctioneers would have in bids on their auctions?
posted on September 1, 2000 01:36:59 PM
Dman3:
A postal scale doesn't save your customers nickels, it saves you dollars.
The difference in postage between a 31.5 ounce package and a 32.5 ounce package is $1.10. It is very, very good to know what your package weighs before you take it to the post office.
Knowing the weight of 1st class packages will enable you to catch the clerks who haven't zeroed out their scales properly. I have had the post office scales be more than 2 ounces off, that's 44 cents of MY money per First Class Package.
My scale has more than paid for itself.
--------------
Don't take life so serious, it ain't nohow permanent.
posted on September 1, 2000 02:58:49 PM
NETWORKER Never said your NSF fee was out of line. You still miss the point. You want the right to determine how much another seller can charge based on what YOU feel is "fair" or what YOU think his costs are yet you set a fee on YOUR auctions that is many times your actual cost.
Last time I had a check to me bounce, my bank charged my account $3 (probably much more than it actually cost them) for the debit. I imagine your cost on a returned check that is simply redeposited or replaced is something similar yet you charge your customer $25. You're doing the same thing you rave about a seller doing with shipping charges and justifying it because you think it's customary or you can enforce it in court.
If you refuse to follow through on a sale or use feedback extortion in an attempt to make a seller do something other that what he has already made clear are the terms under which he will provide his product, then you ARE attempting to change his TOS to YOUR preferences. Take your business elsewhere BEFORE you drag in an unwilling participant. Will you refuse to pay the charges or interest on your 10.9% credit card if you suddenly decide that the bank is only entitled to 6% as a "fair" return ?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.
posted on September 1, 2000 03:16:25 PM
I'm kind of disappointed...I thought maybe this was going to be a constructive thread, possibly even helpful. Instead, it looks like it's been turned into open season on sellers again, kind of an invitation for each of us to take our turn as the duck in the shooting gallery. FWIW, here are my TOS, as listed in each and every auction:
TERMS OF SALE:Buyer pays actual shipping costs for shipment by USPS Priority Mail (minimum $3.20). Insurance extra, if desired; buyer accepts risk for shipping uninsured items. MO and credit card payments ship immediately; shipment with personal check held for 10 days.
My EOA expands on the insurance info and also states that we expect acknowledgement of the EOA notice within 3 days and payment within 10 days after auction ends. We're pretty flexible about that, but you DO have to set deadlines or some people will exert no effort at all in completing the transaction in a timely manner. Thus far, my experience with my bidders has been excellent. Bids have been down, yes, but I really doubt that it has as much to do with my TOS as it does with the general slow down in sales that happens at this time of year, unless one deals in "back to school" or vacation type items.
[ edited by pickersangel on Sep 1, 2000 03:19 PM ]
posted on September 1, 2000 07:18:01 PM
cathammer - Have you read my posts or are they appearing in French on your computer. When a seller is butting with the shipping I know what his fair costs with markup are. He either lowers it to something fair or he doesn't get the sale. Also read the post about those TOS's and the Binding Contract part of them. Sorry that's real business and ebayers will either get with real business or relist the item.
In short I don't give a rats what a TOS says. If the shipping charges are reasonable in the TOS or included padded charges at the EOA the seller has the choice of comleting the deal fairly or relisting his item. Take a look at my feedback you will notice not a single negative fro the buy side of a deal. A few from the seller side of the deal.
Your position is one of my auction my terms. By all means keep that position if it works for you. Be advised buyers are getting sharper and sharper everyday and soon people who think that way will be like Auction Web a thing of the past. I live for that day.
overworked - The thread seems to keep its perspective when I ignore your posts. I love that feature your almighty ebay should consider adding this option.
dman31- You still missed the message of the reply but I ain't mad at you. And I am glad ebay is working for you. So many who try it gather the false impression that it is cakewalk only to be misled. I love it when someone has a plan and makes it work for success. Keep Up The Good Work
pickersangel - It is agreat thread sellers aren't getting bashed in the head here. I started it to entertain that attitude about TOS. So I remember that recently that some where complaining that bids were down and I surmised that maybe they are down because buyers are reading those TOS's with the inflated fees and silly terms to mail somebody a widget.
posted on September 1, 2000 08:37:31 PM
Well, if it were French, networker, it couldn't be much worse than your English, eh, mon garcon ?
Your last bit of nonsense only supports my previous observations: you don't care how another seller wishes to structure his auctions, you want to decide FOR him what's "fair" and "reasonable" yet retain that privilege for yourself on your own auctions. How do YOU say "hypocrite" in French ?
Some people just have trouble accepting that neither the world nor even an auction site operates in accordance with their god-like abilities to determine standards for others.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.
posted on September 2, 2000 12:51:15 AM
Bidding down? Maybe it's your TOS.
Maybe so, but as a buyer, TOS is third on my list of reasons for lack of bids.
Reason #1. I never see the thing.
Bad title, wrong catagory, misspelled (or just missed) keywords, etc. I have to really dig for too many things. I get great buys this way, but sometimes I want to slap sellers just to see if they have a brain rattling around in their heads.
Reason #2. What exactly are you selling?
Bad pic, poor or nonexistant description. What exactly does "good condition" mean? Generally not enough information. All reasonable questions should be answered in the description cause too many potential bidders just plain won't ask and/or don't bid!
Reason #3. TOS
If I don't have a clear understanding of what the heck is up for auction or what I'm supposed to be bidding on, I'm gonna be long gone before I even think about the "fine print" stuff.
I have purchased stuff on ebay with restrictive TOS, and with a significant shipping charge (as long I know what it is in advance), but you gotta "sell the item" before you sign the contract (so to speak)!
posted on September 2, 2000 07:30:00 AM
I don't know if I agree with my auctions.
My TOS says,
"Shipping is (price) plus insurance. Payment accepted by check, money order or PayPal."
Doesn't seem like a really big problem, yet no bids and very few lookers on my last set.
I don't feel the need to put anything else in there, because if a buyer is truly unhappy, I will refund. If a package is lost or damaged, I make it good. If I accidently overcharge more than $1 (my scale only goes to 5 lbs) I refund the difference and I tell the bidder in my EOA that I will. If I spot something while packing that I didn't see before, I email the bidder to tell them and ask what their decision is. If they say they don't want it, I send the check back If they say they do, I automatically enclose a few dollars to compensate them for my error. If I feel I've waited too long for a payment, I email the bidder. If their excuse is believeable, I go ahead and mail their package anyway. I always get the check within a few days of mailing.
I've never had an unhappy bidder. I would be guilt filled should that ever happen.
Maybe I'm different, but these are my unstated policies. I don't feel I should state them all, because they are rare instances. Why be like the Physician's Desk Reference and put in chance-like statements (such as if one person died from a Tylenol overdose, it's listed, never mind the person took the whole bottle at one time).
I don't have problems once the bidding starts, it's getting the bidding to start.
posted on September 2, 2000 07:43:10 AM
Okay, I'd like constructive criticism!! Be gentle, I have a huge, fragile ego. I feel that my TOS is pretty friendly, but a bit long. Then again, every time there is a problem discussed here on AW with a transaction, people ask "Well, was it IN YOUR TOS? If not you are SOL"... so I do try to cover my butt every way I can. I am not sure if I should shorten it or not..
Here 'tis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Terms: Buyer to pay shipping of $3.55 for US Priority Mail Confirmed, within the US only. Book rate is optional on items that qualify, but bidders choosing book rate shipping will need to pay a $1 packing materials charge. International bidders, please email me for shipping information. Insurance mandatory on items over $25.00. Otherwise, insurance is optional and recommended, and will be $.85 more for coverage up to $50.00 value.
Credit card payments via PayPal, personal checks, and money orders are all accepted. Please allow time for personal checks to clear if you pay with this method: it will delay shipment of your item a bit. Payment within 14 days of auction close is expected and appreciated. I reserve the right to cancel bids from those with excessive negative or hidden feedback. I also reserve the right, at my discretion, to refuse payment by check from bidders with negative feedback related to NSF checks.
I do my best to be thorough in inspecting and describing all of my auction items, but please ask any questions before you place your bid, as all sales are final with only a few exceptions (i.e. gross misrepresentation of an item on my part). The only "dumb" questions are the ones you don't ask! Thanks for looking, and feel free to email me with ANY questions! I'll be happy to help in any way I can to make the auction experience a pleasant one! Check my feedback, and bid with confidence!
posted on September 2, 2000 09:44:01 AM
Now however said blonde's were dumb and make
no sense hasn't met Blondesense. She posted some very good questions and that's the way I try to write my TOS. I try and sell things that I like so that I can write a description that would catch my eye when surfing through. I agree with misspelled words but there is also alot of things that are in the wrong catagory and if in the right one would make a seller quite a bit of money. I know if you have a lot of auction that description writing isn't the top priority but it should be. Maybe less auctions better descriptions. Take time to write them and if they start out good I will read them.
posted on September 2, 2000 09:49:41 AM
Sorry I am reading my emails one at a time and I need to respond to mtnmama that is you do an about me page and refer to it in your TOS, put all your things in there, if the buyer wants to read it he can and if he doesn't thats his fault. I have done that, I don't know if anyone reads it but it is there for anyone to read. It has my guarantee in it.
posted on September 2, 2000 10:09:53 AM
Here's my all time favorite TOS from a seller I saw on eBay. I posted this here a long time ago, but thought some might like to see it. I edited out a few words that might identify the seller.
"****** (small packet items) THREE WAYS TO SHIP:: #1: "The Gambler" - Regular first class in a plain or homemade envelope wrapped in paper and secured with tape $1.20 We or the post office are not responsible unless you insure USA see next - #2: "The Trucker" The shipping, handling, delivery confirmaton, and insurance for this item anywhere USA:: Via First Class Mail, Padded Envelope, and Cert. Of Mailing is $3.00 - add .80 cents for insurance - TOTAL $3.80. #3: "Alfred E. Neuman Special" For PRIORITY MAIL (In a USPS Box) with handling charges via US Postal priority mail and delivery confirmation is 4.40 for additional handling & insurance add $1. that's $5.40 Total.- For outside USA please contact seller or see www.usps.com and use our zip code XXXXX for a price point. The following terms still apply but the preceeding shipping chages are in effect unless you want the "Pony Express" special. But don't forget to read the other terms below: ***********______Terms & Stuff______********** Winning bidder must send ebay item number and description with payment. All funds are US Dollars or International Gold in US Dollars (if you want to pay in gold). For US Sales: Winner to pay $3.20 proirity postal charge for shipping, plus insurance, and delivery confirmation tag cost and handling (Total $ 6.20 shipping added to the final bid price) That means you should calculate that into the final cost. US Postal Money Orders get same day shipment upon reciept - that's PONY EXPRESS! Bank Money orders: will ship 3 days from reciept. Personal or business checks: ship 14 days from reciept. If the check bounces that's Interstate Mail Fraud (a criminal felony) and we notify the cops (FBI) or a vigilante (your choice). International Postal Money Orders are good. We will not take checks or Bank Money Orders outside US. We will accept a bid pay or third party payment so long as we don't have to email anybody and no salesman calls - just tell them to send it and where to. We don't accept VISA and MASTERCARD unless they send us cash or something as good as cash. Yea.. we'll take Gold bullion coins @ .999 fine or Canadian Maple Leafs at the market value when it gets here less what broker fees when we cash it in and we will send you the change in a US Postal Money Order. Payment in Gold must account for at least 50% of the value of the final price. We always use insurance and delivery confirmation. If you don't want insurance then we still have delivery confiormation that proves we sent it. If you bid and do not claim your merchandise we will give you negative feedback and we will get really pissed off and you don't want that kind of karma on you. We're nice people. Please see our other auctions. Good luck. - XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Please Note: NO SALES TO XXXXXXXX RESIDENTS: XXXXXXXX Tax Law prohibits sale to XXXXXXXXX residents without collection of 6% tax.As we no longer use our certificate of Authority to collect Sales Tax, we cannot sell to XXXXXXXX Residents. HONOR AMERICA - BUY AMERICAN & SUPPORT THE NRA http://www.nra.org ____________________ We DO NOT ship to the following countries (no exception - and we don't have to tell you why) NO SHIPMENT TO:: China; Hong Kong; Taiwan; Mexico; Nigeria; Turkey; Phillapeans; Panama; Nicaragua; Columbia; Ghana; Zaire; India; Pakistan; Israel; Lebanon; Iran; Iraq; Jordan; or to people who actually believe they are from another planet. If you're an ilegal or a resident of the USA speak English or get the XXXX out, and we won't ship to you either. If you are not the politically correct type and not afraid to speak up of how screwed up the people in this country are about that XXXX.. including you and I I will knock .25 (twenty-five cents) off the price. What can you do with .25 ? Well you can auction something off on ebay."
FWIW, here are my TOS, as listed in each and every auction:
I feel that my TOS is pretty friendly, but a bit long. Then again, every time there is a problem discussed here on AW with a transaction, people ask "Well, was it IN YOUR TOS? If not you are SOL"... so I do try to cover my butt every way I can. I am not sure if I should shorten it or not..