::Child learn behavior from their parents. Do you think they learn that it is OK to spank/hit/punch because their parents used these methods on them when they are a child?::
You know, that's a weird one. In my case, the abusing parent was an abused child but never became an abusing spouse. He learned behaviors from his parents that became his parental behavior. In turn, as I grew older, I began to see the same behaviors in myself which is why I am not parent. He has two other daughters, one of which also made the decision to not become a parent. The other unfortunately did and is so terrified of losing control when disciplining her children verbally or physically that she simply doesn't. That's not good either.
Abused children become abused spouses much more often than abusing spouses. Since standing up to an abusing parent rarely has a positive effect they don't try to do it to a spouse either. Besides, they are told as a child that they are hit because they are loved so they carry that same twisted logic into their adult lives.
As for those later in life loving relationships with the parent....they are generally pretty superficial. A child, no matter how old, will always seek the love of a parent and so they will find ways to justify or understand the treatment but those two important aspects of mature relationships are trust and respect and those are are long gone.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
which speaks to even *toddlers* being drugged now, along with the increase of school children being medicated. SCARY!!
One site said there are approximately 51 million school aged children...and 10 million are currently taking these drugs. And one other site said that 1 in 10 are and another said 1 in 18. But I couldn't find any very recent numbers.
From what little reading/searching I did do....sure looks like the schools/psychiatrists and drug companies are all benefitting and in collusion with one another about prescribing these drugs. So much so that some schools have threatened to report the parents to CPS if they don't agree to let their children take these drugs. But the children are the ones who are suffering and in some cases even dying.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 02:23:51 PM newAre you really a parent?
Are you really a woman or do you just pretend to be one?
So logansdad you appear to see no difference at all between a parent raising a child and one who 'babysits' them. But there IS a tremendous difference whether you can understand it or not.
When it comes to disciplining a child no. Whether a parents leaves the child with a relative, a day care center or a school, the person responsible for looking after the child should know how to properly discipline that child. They should know what is acceptable and what is not according to the parent's standards and the school and/or business that employ them.
Linda it seems that you would allow a baby sitter to spank and wallop your misbehaving child. That is the impression I am getting from you. If your child came home with a blistered bottom I am sure you would not say "my child deserved what we got". Instead you would be claiming child abuse. But then again I may be wrong since there are those on the right that agreed that the Iraqi prisoners got what they deserved.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
posted on March 8, 2005 02:27:50 PM newAs for those later in life loving relationships with the parent....they are generally pretty superficial. A child, no matter how old, will always seek the love of a parent and so they will find ways to justify or understand the treatment but those two important aspects of mature relationships are trust and respect and those are are long gone.
Not for me ...I can tell the difference as can MOST adults who were spanked. They knew they deserved it and will tell you so. No damage in their relationship at all with that parent.
With my step father, who beat me, I knew from a young age it wasn't to 'teach' me anything....it was hatred and his inability to deal with children...from his past marriages and from his marriage to my mother.
So...one spanked and one beat. I very easily loved one who 'disciplined' me with an occassional spanking and grew to hate the one who beat me when he had personal problems/issues. There is a difference.
And I spanked both my sons when they were young. One for constantly running out into a busy street. No matter what I did...even not letting him go out front, when I'd try again he was determined to head out into the street. A couple of swats on his rear a couple of times and he better understood the message. Problem solved. Each child has a different temperment...you can't take ONE way of doing things and apply it to all children.
I'm proud of the adults and parents they've grown up to be. And they're very loving and attentive to me. I very much feel their love. And we've talked about the spankings they received....they too said they new they deserved them.....just as the profe said he knew he did the one time his father let him have it. Some infractions are just more serious than others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 02:34:16 PM new
logan - Just more sarcasim huh? Your userid states that you might be the father of a 'Logan', but I've never read you say you are....so I asked. BIG problem for you it appears.
Linda it seems that you would allow a baby sitter to spank and wallop your misbehaving child.
It only appears that way in your twisted mind, logan because you've never ASKED me how I feel about others spanking my children.
But I'm not as stupid as the lady in your OP appears. She KNOWS their rules for discipline BEFORE entering her son in their school....and when it comes necessary because they CAN'T control her son...she takes him out. Fine....now when he continues with his current behavior....the public school can suggest he be put on Retalin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
"Many people are obviously upset that more than 6 million U.S. schoolchildren are being drugged daily with dangerous, mind-destroying psychiatric amphetamines, antidepressants and tranquilizers.
It is hoped that this column will provide more information about what is driving this corrupt business that uses children as a commodity so that adults can do something about this abuse.
Any investigator knows how to follow the money with an investigation, and the major money in the multibillion-dollar-per-year child psychiatric drugging industry goes to drug companies and the psychiatrists.
It all starts with fraudulent psychiatric labels that have no scientific basis. The American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic manual has nearly 400 mental disorders listed. Real medicine uses lab tests, blood work, X-rays, etc. to diagnose real disease; psychiatrists merely look at one's behavior, and based on the APA's diagnostic manual, decide whether a person is mentally ill.
If the psychiatrist decides, yes, you or a child are mentally ill, he can now start drugging you to fill his pockets.
---------
More in the article about how the schools get a large benefit from this too.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 8, 2005 02:51 PM ]
posted on March 8, 2005 03:18:21 PM new "But I'm not as stupid as the lady in your OP appears. She KNOWS their rules for discipline BEFORE entering her son in their school....and when it comes necessary because they CAN'T control her son...she takes him out. Fine....now when he continues with his current behavior....the public school can suggest he be put on Retalin."
"because they can't control her son."
It's good that you recognize this. Without physical punishment, the private school can't control a kid who chews gum and brings toys to school? Think about that, Linda.
Then, you LEAP to the conclusion that the public school will put the kid on Ritalin?
posted on March 8, 2005 04:04:53 PM new
Yes Helen children are put on Ritalin when the teacher suggests it. I have worked in a family practice clinic and I saw it first hand.
Well, you're just plain stupid if you don't know about all the parents who are working two jobs and long hours just to pay for groceries, heat, gas, property taxes, and a house for their children.
No crowfarm it's parents living beyond their means, want other to raise their children so they can pay for things to keep up with the Jones......
posted on March 8, 2005 04:33:49 PM new
helen - You sound like the parent the teachers are always complaining about. Your child acts up, in this case 20 different times since the school year starts, and they can't stop his disruptive behavior and YOU blame THEM.
And yes, he's a great candidate to have it suggested he be medicated as my links point out. That's what they're doing with the disruptive students - after teachers and adminstrators have tried and failed to change the behavior through 'normal' methods.
The mother herself admitted he was a behavior problem and obviously she hasn't been able to change his behavior either.
yep....he'll make a good candidate for your 'recommend' Psychiatric
therapy....drug him too. Add him to the 10 million students being 'controlled' by drugs the schools insist they take. When a little discipline in the first two years of his life would most likely have made all the difference in the world.
posted on March 8, 2005 04:37:50 PM newYour userid states that you might be the father of a 'Logan', but I've never read you say you are....so I asked.
This was answered many times before Linda. In fact Libra asked me the question not to long ago.
She KNOWS their rules for discipline BEFORE entering her son in their school....and when it comes necessary because they CAN'T control her son...she takes him out.
She did now the rules when she signed her child up for school and she did not sign the form that the school required. So I guess it was OK with the school that she did not agree with their rules. If the school felt strongly about this issue they should have made her sign the paper before the child started classes.
I just find the story ironic because the Christians are the one preaching non-violent ways to resolve differences and here you have a Christian school promoting violence and tell parents how they should discipline their children.
because you've never ASKED me how I feel about others spanking my children.
With this statement Linda, you made yourself clear:
I think those who oppose a swat on the rear are the same ones who believe [in the political realm] that we can 'talk' the terrorists out of their wishes for our Nation.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
[ edited by logansdad on Mar 8, 2005 04:43 PM ]
Abused children become abused spouses much more often than abusing spouses.
See I would have thought it was the other way around, but thanks for mentioning that. Whether a person grows up to be the abuser or the one that gets abused, I feel the child learns the behavior from how he is treated as a child. In any case there are more non-violent ways to discipline a child than through spankings.
If you have a child that has a discipline problem in which a parent can't control then one alternative is military school.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
[ edited by logansdad on Mar 8, 2005 04:45 PM ]
posted on March 8, 2005 04:52:28 PM new
LOL logan - So since you told LIBRA I shouldn't have missed you saying it to HER huh? That probably makes sense to you somehow...just as your other comparison did. No sense at all about someone ELSE spanking my children.
Then you defend the mother....knowing the rules but not being supportive of them when they apply to her child. Her child is somehow different? lol
First of all a mother with a six year old who can't check and be sure he's NOT bringing things to school that he's not supposed to be bringing, like gum and toys, says something right there about her previous LACK of cooperation with the school and their rules.
The issue is settled...logan...while there are some private schools that don't use corporal punishment....many do. And public schools don't at all.
Think removing him from that school is going to change his behavior? I don't. I think this mother has just given her 6 year old MUCH power over the teacher that will have to deal with him in the future. He has learned, to this point, that rules don't apply to him.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 8, 2005 04:59 PM ]
posted on March 8, 2005 05:00:19 PM new
Where's Prof? I'd like to hear what he has to say about children being medicated.
I thought they did some kind of study on this and found that most of the hyperactivity came from a bad diet. Is it possible the crap they inject into meat causes this in children? It would be interesting to see if vegetarian children are as hyper.
Logan, obviously nobody wants to address the fact that a school would make physical punishment a prerequisite. If it wasn't a catholic school, I bet everyone would be furious.
posted on March 8, 2005 05:09:05 PM newYes Helen children are put on Ritalin when the teacher suggests it. I have worked in a family practice clinic and I saw it first hand.
What a load that is Libra. It takes a medical doctor's consultation and prescription after a psychiatric and emotional evaluation of a child before he is ever medicated. Teachers often begin the process, because they are the ones whose classes are disrupted by kids with ADHD, but teachers don't write prescriptions, not even in whatever goofy state you live in.If you really knew anything about this subject, you'd know that most of the drugs used to tread ADHD are, for normal people, Central Nervous System Stimulants, and will have an effect exactly like amphetamine or cocaine. For the truly ADHD child (or adult, for that matter) they have the opposite effect, calming them down and helping them focus. Most teachers are well aware of this fact, and darn sure don't want any non-ADHD kids being wound up with speed.
I've said this before. If my kid had ADHD, I would not medicate him. I'd remove him from school and get him his education in an environment designed for unmedicated ADHD kids. Such schools exist.
An unmedicated ADHD child in a regular public school classroom is a constant drain on a teacher's time, and as a result is stealing learning time from every other child in the classroom. In addition, unmedicated ADHD kids are often incapable of any real learning themselves. Failure to either medicate them, or get them into an environment designed for their needs is failing to help them. These aren't normal behavior problems, they can't be dealt with through normal behavioral rewards and or punishments. Not even swats will work. Sorry
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 8, 2005 05:12:31 PM new
KD - Why in the world would you think that? It certainly wouldn't make any difference to me. The mother KNEW the rules. KNEW she had a choice to follow though on the spanking OR have her son take a ONE DAY SUSPENSION. SHE chose not to do either. She certainly can't say she didn't know their policy.
"I bring it to their attention because I want them to know about this before I enroll their child. I tell them that if their child ever gets in this position that they have an option. They do not have to spank -- it's their choice," school administrator Randy Thaxton said.
"I put my son there for academic reasons, for moral structure. I didn't put my son there to be told I had to enforce corporal punishment on him," Fallaw-Gabrielson said. LOL....No excuse - she KNEW she had another option. Didn't like either one....her choice....
posted on March 8, 2005 05:24:24 PM new
I'm just not buying that from 1991 - 1995 the number of children who needed to be on placed on this medication increased by 50% according to one source....and 75% according to another.
I think those sites that speak to the 'over use' of these serious medications are most likely correct. It's easier and more PC correct at the current time. The articles also speak to how many children AREN'T helped by the drugs. They're more like zombies, still unable to learn...but they sit still much better. lol
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 8, 2005 06:03 PM ]
posted on March 8, 2005 05:30:31 PM new
Right, Profe...I was aware that Libra's info was a load. And furthermore, there is no indication in that news article that the boy was ADHD. That was a linda leap.
posted on March 8, 2005 05:35:50 PM new
wrong, twice in a row helen.
But on the more important one to me is the accusation that because of the way Libra worded her post....you and the profe jump to a conclusion. This whole process DOES begin with a teach recommendation....because of the students behavior. And everyone here knows teachers don't prescribe meds. To insinuate Libra doesn't also know that....is to be VERY insultive. Something that surprises me coming from the profe....but not from you helen.
What a witch you can be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 05:47:04 PM new
Not wrong at all, Linda. You are wrong that this boy is destined to undergo ritalin treatement in the public school when in fact, there is no indication that he has been diagnosed as ADHD.
posted on March 8, 2005 05:56:52 PM new
helen - You're selectively reading, once again. I said, before the discussion of medicating all these MILLIONS of children, that I believed it was/is a behavior issue.
Then because of the way the public school system is handling these disruptive children...his chances ARE greater that his behavior WILL lead to that decision. Just check out what the state of Mass. is doing if parents reject the testing and/or the medication routine recommended by these 'doctors'. I seriously doubt you'd support any such hogwash.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
You said, "But I'm not as stupid as the lady in your OP appears. She KNOWS their rules for discipline BEFORE entering her son in their school....and when it comes necessary because they CAN'T control her son...she takes him out. Fine....now when he continues with his current behavior....the public school can suggest he be put on Retalin."
posted on March 8, 2005 06:09:22 PM new
All children who chew gum, bring toys to school and talk a lot are not put on Ritalin. It's not the case that children who misbehave need to be spanked OR put on ritalin. There are many other options.
posted on March 8, 2005 06:10:19 PM new
Linda, I don't mean you, I mean the public. People just tend to accept more if it comes from a Catholic setting because it has God's stamp of approval. If a public school had a similar requirement, parents would go nuts, imo.
posted on March 8, 2005 06:12:22 PM new
LOL - what part don't you understand about me saying that I think it's just a behavior problem?
But yes, I did give my opinion about this child. He now has a history on his record of being a disruptive child in class. Any further or new disruption in a new school is going to trigger a teachers call for testing. I'd bet on it. It doesn't appear the mother is willing to work with school in keeping her child from breaking the rules...I wouldn't expect either her nor his behavior to change. Especially after they've received their 15 minutes of 'fame'.
Just what do you think a public school teacher/school will do with him if he continues disturbing any class with this disruptive, continuing behavior. Something the mother, teacher, principle, and administrator haven't tried?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 06:14:23 PM new
Or better yet, helen, maybe you agree with logansdad when he suggests children could be put in a Military school. Yea, I'm sure they're going to feel loved being dropped off there for behavior problems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 06:15:14 PM new
so linduh was beaten...explains the horrible need to be right no matter how long it takes, the need to let us know her children adore her, the rigidity, the dead heart, missing soul, hatred for the less fortunate, see linduh it does matter.
posted on March 8, 2005 06:22:11 PM new
KD - I think most parents put their children in a 'church' school or a private school because they offer many things a public school doesn't. Please re-read the mother's own statements....she verifies this.
Imo, she is doing the exact same thing a ton of parents to in the publice school. Siding with the child against the teacher. My sons KNEW that if I got a call from the teacher telling us anything was going on....the TEACHER, not they, had our full backing. They KNEW we expected them to follow the rules and do as the teacher request. They knew who the authoritative figure was....and they weren't it.
Imo, no matter where you put your child....rules are there to teach young children that rules are meant to be followed. Break a rule...suffer the consequence. Too many parents today making excuses for their out-of-control childrens behavior. And watching the parents behavior clearly shows why the children are acting this way. Because they can/are allowed to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 06:23:12 PM new It doesn't appear the mother is willing to work with school in keeping her child from breaking the rules...I wouldn't expect either her nor his behavior to change.
The mother is unwilling to spank her child under orders from a school administrator on a power trip. Otherwise, there is no indication that this mother has refused to cooperate!
posted on March 8, 2005 06:35:21 PM new
helen....She OBVIOUSLY wasn't cooperating with the rules NOT TO BRING GUM AND TOYS TO CLASS....did that help you 'hear' it any better? You've read about three infractions....did you read about the 17 other ones? Is repeatedly ignoring the fact that your 6 year old is taking these things to class, and heaven knows what else that wasn't mentioned in this ONE article on the story....what YOU call cooperating with the school? I don't. The FIRST time bring these things to school became an issue....there wouldn't have been a second time. I would have checked that he WASN'T AGAIN disobeying the rules. And if her were....there'd be consequences.
What you don't appear to want to except is that not all parents cooperate with what the teachers/schools ask/require. This mother also had another choice....to take a one day suspension. SHE is the one who chose to pull her little 'baby' out. He's going to have to learn to obey 'rules' no matter where she places him. Life is full of rules.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 06:44:29 PM new
If this 6 year old child was chewing gum and taking toys to school why was his mother not buying him gum and why was she not going through his backpack and removing the toys?
IMO, the fault in this case lies with the mother....REGARDLESS of the school's views on corporal punishment or their policies on anything else. The MOTHER failed to make her son follow the rules. No wonder the school wanted to make sure SHE punished the child.
