posted on March 8, 2005 06:50:40 PM new "He's going to have to learn to obey 'rules' no matter where she places him. Life is full of rules."
I would never consider a private elementary school in the first place. But, if I found myself in this mother's position, I would have removed my child immediately. Being ordered to inflict corporal punishment on my child as a condition of keeping my child in school is a "rule" that I don't need...not even for one day!
posted on March 8, 2005 07:02:26 PM new
I agree, Linda. A teacher will initially suggest a psychiatric evaluation which I bet 99% of the time, medication will be recommended. Parents think or value these opinions as from "experts". If the kid is exhibiting that behavior at school, surely they are showing it at home, too? So seems to me, parents who want to help their kids, if they are told the kid has a mental or emotional problem, will at least consider what these experts' told them and probably be glad themselves to try the drug routine. And I don’t care who you are; go to any shrink and they will FIND a problem with you. It's called return business.
WE are such a lazy society. All we want to do is pop a pill for whatever ails us. No work involved. Don’t change an environment, break a habit, alter a paradigm,...no, just take a pill and make it all better.
kraft, a Christian school is not a Catholic school. Theres all kinds of Christian schools that are a far cry from Catholic school.
Logans, I saw kids get their heads banged up against a blackboard for not behaving right in catholic school. The scary thing is, I also remember a girl in kindergarten who was forever getting punished because she'd pee or relieve herself on line or in her seat. Looking back now, she may have been sexually abused or had some physical problems, but back then....the nuns and teachers just thought you were unruly, untaught, and ignorant that you couldn’t hold yourself or whatever. That, I think was wrong. I would think they contacted the parents, but it didnt seem like it.
I remember one incident in third grade, me and two of my friends got nabbed cheating on an arithmetic test. We had to stand in the supply closet with our heads down until our mothers were called in. When they arrived, that nun, I'll never forget her - Sister Catharine Ambrose - gave us each a couple of swats on the rear, right in front of our mothers. Then we were sent home for the day. I cannot really say I was scarred for life from that. I don’t remember what I thought of it as a child. I think I remember my mother was mad and embarrassed in front of the nun. But she got over it quickly and I don’t remember getting punished for it. Maybe she felt what the nun did was sufficient? Other than that, I think I got my hands smacked with a ruler a time or two along the way. It hurt, but you remembered it, too.
posted on March 8, 2005 07:18:04 PM new
lol helen....she was not ORDERED to spank her child. She was given a CHOICE....both consequences she had been made FULLY aware of....no surprises.
As you said you'd never be putting your child in that school to begin with. I'd be VERY surprise if many atheists do put their children in Christian schools. Of course pulling your child out would be your solution ...you'd teach him he doesnt' have to listen to authority. I can see that happening.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on March 8, 2005 07:22:44 PM new
dbl - I believe that's part of why a law was passed [somewhere between '95 & '97, I believe] informing parents that because the 'government/school' evaulation was done....the drugs do have severe side effects, can cause addiction, etc....and have caused deaths even.
But I read the state of MASS has some 'clause/law/rule' that governs their school system there...and IF a child is tested and it comes out they are in need of this medication....AND the parents don't want them to take it....they can have their children removed from their home by CPS. That to me is both government AND the schools going WAY over the limit. Like government now controls those children's lives...not the parents any longer. Scary stuff to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 8, 2005 07:26 PM ]
posted on March 8, 2005 07:56:24 PM new
You say..."As you said you'd never be putting your child in that school to begin with. I'd be VERY surprise if many atheists do put their children in Christian schools."
Linda, It's difficult to communicate with you because of your propensity to misinterpret what is said. I said that I would never consider a private elementary school. Guess what, Linda. All private elementary schools are not religiously affiliated. In my area public schools are superior to private schools.
You say,"Of course pulling your child out would be your solution ...you'd teach him he doesn't' have to listen to authority. I can see that happening"
Linda, I would teach my child to question authority. In this case, the "authority" is very wrong.
posted on March 8, 2005 08:09:43 PM new
kraft, why did I think it was on Wednesday night? totally confused with the dog!
In this case, the "authority" is very wrong..
Wait a minute, Helen. Didnt this kid misbehave at least a few times before? Is this the first time the corporal punishment was initialized?
Why were they wrong? The kid broke the rules/policies of the school. Did you mean to say the punishment was wrong?
posted on March 8, 2005 09:35:47 PM new
Double, I almost forgot myself. It was a good one tonite - lots of action! He's on again in a half hour if you're still up. He & his team are doing a "sweep" of fugitives (3).
posted on March 8, 2005 10:05:26 PM new
helen....no getting by what I said.
You say...[that would be ME] "As you said you'd never be putting your child in ***that*** school to begin with. I'd be VERY surprise if many atheists do put their children in Christian schools[/i]."
I mention Christian schools because that's the type of school being discussed WHERE this event took place.
No confusion on my part, although you work so hard to make it appear that way.
Linda, It's difficult to communicate with you because of your propensity to misinterpret what is said.
You're always saying you WON'T be communicating with me. But you haven't yet held to that promise either. Must be lack of self-control.
We're NOT discussing a 'private school'. We're discussing what took place at a CHRISTIAN school. You're the one that changed the type of school we're discussing to a 'private' one....rather than the Christian one that's being discussed.
I said that I would never consider a private elementary school. Guess what, Linda. All private elementary schools are not religiously affiliated.
No sh1t helen. Are you sure? Always implying you know something others just aren't aware of. Even though they already are. Does it make you feel superior in some way helen? Makes you look like you THINK you are to me. You're not.
In my area public schools are superior to private schools. So? I bet even the public schools in YOUR area have rules they expect students to follow. I'd be there are some kind of consequence when they don't.
You say [me again],"Of course pulling your child out would be your solution ...you'd teach him he doesn't' have to listen to authority. I can see that happening"
Linda, I would teach my child to question authority. In this case, the "authority" is very wrong.
Just as I said, helen. You'd support a 6 year old, misbehaving child over a teacher, a school and any rules the parent was previously made aware that they expected honored. According to you, no sense in expecting a child to obey the rules. Mommy helen will be there to fight with the teacher, school so you can chew all the gum and bring all the toys and disturb the whole class as often as you wish... I already said that....now you've confirmed it.
posted on March 8, 2005 11:38:54 PM new
Helen why not "let" linduh win this one....she was beaten as a child and now we can understand her hatred and hard attitude toward children....she wants them to suffer as she did,....she's to be pitied even if she proved our point.
posted on March 9, 2005 05:23:30 AM newJust what do you think a public school teacher/school will do with him if he continues disturbing any class with this disruptive, continuing behavior. Something the mother, teacher, principle, and administrator haven't tried?
The behavior of ADHD children is categorically different than simple misbehavior, Linda. Educators recognize the difference. Most kids with incorrigible behavior problems are not ADHD kids, and their behavior will be worsened by ADHD meds, not improved. If this kid, as it seems, has simple behavior problems, he's no more likely to be put on medication than anyone else, regardless what school he's in.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 9, 2005 05:48:49 AM new
crowfarm...
Linda's responses are much like a failed and pitiful attempt to do the fox twist. But I don't think that it's a deliberate attempt on Linda's part. She simply fails to understand what is written. And as the discussion progresses, she struggles to stay afloat by the use of insults with a plentiful peppering of capitalized words to reinforce her otherwise lame comments. And then she loses, crowfarm.
"You say...[that would be ME] "As you said you'd never be putting your child in ***that*** school to begin with. I'd be VERY surprise if many atheists do put their children in Christian schools."
No, linda...I did not say that. I said that I would never consider a private school. I would never consider a private school for a couple of reasons. First is the cost and second and most important is the fact that the public schools in our area are superior. The word ***that*** was not included in my statement. You added that word so that you could make the atheist - christian remark.
So, yes there was "confusion" on your part again because you invariably misconstrue what is said.
posted on March 9, 2005 06:25:12 AM new
Then you said, "No sh1t helen. Are you sure? Always implying you know something others just aren't aware of. Even though they already are. Does it make you feel superior in some way helen? Makes you look like you THINK you are to me. You're not"
After your atheist - christian remark I simply pointed out that I was not referring to christian schools by reminding you that not all private schools are religiously affiliated. No, Linda...that remark was made for your clarification only.
posted on March 9, 2005 06:33:26 AM new
And, In response to my remark that public schools in my area were superior to private schools you said,
"So? I bet even the public schools in YOUR area have rules they expect students to follow. I'd be there are some kind of consequence when they don't.
Of course there are "rules" in public schools and consequences for failure to follow the rules. One significant difference between public schools and this school is that public schools in my area don't have corporal punishment as a consequence of misbehavior.
posted on March 9, 2005 06:59:50 AM new
I said, [/i]"Linda, I would teach my child to question authority. In this case, the "authority" is very wrong.[/i]
You responded...Just as I said, helen. You'd support a 6 year old, misbehaving child over a teacher, a school and any rules the parent was previously made aware that they expected honored. According to you, no sense in expecting a child to obey the rules. Mommy helen will be there to fight with the teacher, school so you can chew all the gum and bring all the toys and disturb the whole class as often as you wish... I already said that....now you've confirmed it.
Linda...Here you have grossly exaggerated and misconstrued the meaning of my remark and again attacked me personally. The truth is that I have never had a disagreement with my children's teachers. My children were well behaved and never presented a problem to teachers. They excelled academically and socially.
If I were in this mother's position I would have noticed the "spanking as discipline" policy before my child was enrolled and prevented the need to change schools. And it goes without saying that I would not support my child's misbehavior as you suggested above.
posted on March 9, 2005 09:40:24 AM new
LOL @ 5 straight posts in a row. That meets your previously held record, helen.
And it goes without saying that I would not support my child's misbehavior as you suggested above.
No, I don't believe it 'goes without saying' in YOUR case. Nowhere have I seen you say anything about this mother's LACK of dealing with the 'breaking of the school rules' to begin with. Which, imo, would have kept this issue from ending up where it has.
You excuse her, by omission, by not holding her accountable at all.
posted on March 9, 2005 09:58:11 AM new
Five posts to answer your post, March 8, 2005 10:05:26 PM, in which you misconstrued my statements over five times.. You are not in a position to cast aspersions on totem pole posts, linda since you do it nearly every day.
It's significant that you have no reply other than to criticize the number of posts that I used.
The issue, linda is corporal punishment used by the school to punish misbehavior. You introduced the possibility that this child would be classified as ADHD.
Profe had a good answer for your concern on that score.
"The behavior of ADHD children is categorically different than simple misbehavior, Linda. Educators recognize the difference. Most kids with incorrigible behavior problems are not ADHD kids, and their behavior will be worsened by ADHD meds, not improved. If this kid, as it seems, has simple behavior problems, he's no more likely to be put on medication than anyone else, regardless what school he's in."
posted on March 9, 2005 10:09:41 AM new Can't address the quetion of why this mother wasn't cooperating with the school on the gum and toy issue, huh? LOL So now you wish to change the focus and get back to a subject DBLFUGGER first brought into the discussion.
You appear to me to be under some false impression that a mother of a 6 year old can't be sure her child is NOT bringing 'banned' items to school. THAT to me would at least SHOW SOME cooperation with the school in dealing with this problem. But because you don't believe she could have CHOSEN her other option....then it's all the schools fault that they actually follow the 'rules' they set.
LOL - I'm beginning to think this ties in with your repeated threats to 'not speak to me'....because you keep saying it but never have any 'follow though'.
Well...helen...THIS school has followed through and maybe that's what upsets you. You'd rather put your blinders on and pretend this mother didn't KNOW she'd have two choices...from the start.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
Linda, I have made my position clear. If I restate my position you will either misconstrue my position or deny that it is my position and I will spend the day correcting your efforts to comprehend or think. Anyone who has read this thread knows my position. I see no reason to restate it just for you.
posted on March 9, 2005 10:38:17 AM new
right helen.
You can't address a VERY SIMPLE question and clear it up, can you?
SHOULD/could this mother have been more cooperative with the school in checking to be sure her 6 year old son didn't bring 'banned' items to school - thus eliminating at least that part of the problem? Very simple to say you either think she was or wasn't cooperating. I haven't seen you do that at all...so, I'll take that to mean you ONLY blame the school's consequences...not the behavior of either the mother or her son.
I know when you don't WANT to answer....it's always MY fault.
Nothing different there....
May sh!t grinning smiles continue to proliferate betwixt and between your careless words. May capitalized words add strength to your lame thoughts and may you someday learn how to read and think.
posted on March 9, 2005 11:26:44 AM new
Maybe repetition to royalty will work, crowfarm..
Linda, I have made my position clear. If I restate my position you will either misconstrue my position or deny that it is my position and I will spend the day correcting your efforts to comprehend or think. Anyone who has read this thread knows my position. I see no reason to restate it just for you.
Helen
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