crowfarm
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:07:40 AM new
Armstrong Williams
Bill O'Riley/Rush Limbaugh
How self-reliant are people who want to inherit their parents SS. ?
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:12:33 AM new
helen - I told you once before to be careful when you continue to demand I show proof. I stated that I wasn't willing to spend hours searching past posts JUST because you choose to deny EVERY statement and call the accuser a liar. And again, I'm no referring to statements ONLY I have made to you.
helenjw - posted on March 1, 2003 01:46:49 PM Conservative christian fundamentalists justify their greed based on their self serving interpretation of the bible. The fact that they believe that taxing poor people is moral doesn't surprise me. May they all go to the hell in which they also believe. Helen
----
That was telling a whole GROUP of posters here to 'go to hell'....thought it would be easier than searching for individuals you've said that to.
So now your excuse is ......what?
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fenix03
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:13:15 AM new
Peepa - As I said before. Not sure if you are incapable or just unwilling to get my point.
When I say that we have become lazy I mean that rather than looking to the future and finding the next niche too many people are are sitting back and complaining that the world has moved forward and left them behind.
NOw - do want to actually address that point or would you rather continue argueing against a point I didn't make.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Helenjw
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:36:01 AM new
First, Linda....you misquoted me and conveniently omitted a link to what I really said. I was NOT referring to a group of POSTERS I said to you...But since you brought it up and again and took my remark out of context, I will repeat the same remark in it's entirety.
http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=171541&id=171625
This is what I said.
Conservative christian fundamentalists justify their greed based on their self serving interpretation of the bible. The fact that they believe that taxing poor people is moral doesn't surprise me. May they all go to the hell in which they also believe.
So, Linda...I'm still waiting for a LINK to all those instances when you allege that I told a poster here to go to hell.
[ edited by Helenjw on Mar 11, 2005 08:39 AM ]
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hillbillymo
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:44:33 AM new
Who is to blame, many, it is a concerted effort to fleece you. Price gouging, plain & simple. If one of the weak links in the supply chain is refinery output, then why are they concerned about drilling for more oil when there is limited refinery output. The oil isn't going anywhere does no good to drill if you can't refine the raw crude.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:50:00 AM new
ROFLMHO @ you helen.
You've reposted what you said and you STILL don't agree you told people they could go to hell?
 Boy...your case of total denial is MUCH LARGER THAN what I have EVER thought it to be.
And please, pay more attention to the date on your link vs. my copy and paste from the 1ST NOT the 6th.
As if that makes any difference at all.....except to one who tells others to 'cram it', cheerleads cf on, and thinks it's so funny when her tag along tells others to 'cram it up their as$.'
YOUR DENIAL IS ENORMOUS, HELEN
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 08:57:35 AM new
hillbillymo - then why are they concerned about drilling for more oil when there is limited refinery output. The oil isn't going anywhere does no good to drill if you can't refine the raw crude.
I'd the difference would be on the actual cost plus profit that could/would be far less than how OPEC decides how much they charge per barrel. Plus reducing our 'need' from them would hold back pressures they have over us BECAUSE we need their oil. Under both party's....not just the Republican one.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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hillbillymo
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:10:44 AM new
Again, it wouldn't matter if they found oil in your backyard. If they can't refine it fast enough to meet demand there will be a continual shortage, which translates to a higher prices!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:13:15 AM new
okay hillbillymo - I'm not sure why you don't understand that IF we produced more of our own oil....we wouldn't be producing that same amount of foreign oil so there'd be no need to refine theirs...we'd be refining our own. Does that help any?
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:18:53 AM new
The original comment may be found here. I wonder why you have so much difficulty providing a link to your statements, Linda? I had to repeat the statement before because you misquoted me.
http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=170857&id=170871
Linda, you said, "You HAVE told people who disagree with a topic discussion to 'go to hell'....more than once too. "
The truth is that you CANNOT provide LINKS to such instances because they do NOT exist.
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hillbillymo
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:30:17 AM new
Domestic drilling will never have a lasting effect on global oil pricing. It hasn't over the duration. Even after the U.S. invades an oil soaked country, still no relieve at the pump.
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fenix03
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:39:27 AM new
Hill - yes it would. Domestic production would decrease the need for foreign fuel. Crude prices are set by bidding. If demand is decreased, so is the bidding. Think of it as a dutch auction on ebay. Price is not going to climb as high if the bidder involved each only want 3 items as it would if they all wanted 8.
We would accomplish a great deal more if we just stopped using as much and I don't really think that popping holes all over the ountry trying to find something that isn't really there is going to accomplish anything but I did want to point out the flaw in your logic before started fighting too hard for it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 09:52:02 AM new
hillbillymo - Maybe you'd care to share just why YOU think prices have risen so much?
-------------
helen - I wonder why you have so much difficulty providing a link to your statements, Linda?
It's not like I haven't explained that at least a hundred times to you, helen. You choose not to remember my explanations. YOUR choice.
I had to repeat the statement before because you misquoted me.
Now this is past funny. YOU have posted YOUR OWN statement, helen. The point is YOU DID SAY IT....even if while REPEATING what you said before.
Linda, you said, "You HAVE told people who disagree with a topic discussion to 'go to hell'....more than once too. " The truth is that you CANNOT provide LINKS to such instances because they do NOT exist.
Well...that's what you said about wishing your bad KARMA on the Christians who used to post here too. You said you didn't....but you did.
You ALWAYS accuse everyone of being the cause others have left....but never call your 'buddies' on their actions that may have been the cause of some leaving. NEVER.
I guess I just have a MAJOR problem that you appear to still be refusing to look into your OWN mirrow....at your OWN statements to others. And that you can't see that by making statements like those....totally un-necessary statements when trying to state your opinion on an issue....that you could have been the reason Christians left our boards? But you easily want to and are so quick to claim others are the reason people have left.
And it's just SO obvious that you don't hold your 'buddie's' comments and actions accountable for anyone leaving.
Now....can we get back to the thread topic? Or are you going to obsess on your statement?
I'd prefer to get back on topic...I think I proved my claim...and I think you've validated it. 
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:04:58 AM new
All that nonsense and still no LINKS.
Of course, I knew that you would be unable to provide links to a non existant statement.
I've never told you or anyone here to go to hell. In fact even off line, I've never told anyone to go to hell.
However, Hell would be an appropriate place, if it existed to send the Conservative Christian Fundamentalists. Dante would agree.
Just for you.
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hillbillymo
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:06:24 AM new
Well of course, domestic production could influence global pricing, if it was done on a scale that would back the oil up in the Saudis' pipelines and a few others. How long could the U.S. maintain that level of production. It ain't going to happen. Reducing our consumption is really the only way. After the fuel crisis of the seventies, the car manufactures began making more fuel efficient cars, which had a effect on oil cosumption and mangaged to keep pricing in check for a considerable amount of time.
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crowfarm
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:09:18 AM new
The price of oil is set POLITICALLY on a GLOBAL scale...that's it! Period.
We can't control it.
On a personal level we can only buy the most fuel efficient vehicles so WE , Personally, can save on gas.....but effect global pricing.....NOT!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:23:22 AM new
LOL helen - Still denying you said it huh?
Get a grip woman. Do you really think that after viewing a link you provided yourself...that clearly shows you said:
[i]May they all go to the hell in which they also believe. Helen[i].
...that they're going to 'buy' you didn't wish BAD KARMA on them? Continue on in your denial of what you accuse others of lying about. It's the road you usually take when you just refuse to admit the truth or see your own actions/words.
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crowfarm
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:27:04 AM new
linduh. Talk about obsessive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:28:56 AM new
fenix - We would accomplish a great deal more if we just stopped using as much and I don't really think that popping holes all over the ountry trying to find something that isn't really there is going to accomplish anything......
I, for one, would like to better understand just why you are so opposed to new drilling when others believe there IS enough oil to make drilling profitable. It's the oil companies that would be the losers if they drill and there is not enough oil to make that drilling profitable.
And I agree with those who speak to the issue of conservation. I think we should...but the American public and business doesn't appear to agree...since our consumption continues, year after year, to rise.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:38:13 AM new
Because it's a short term fix. Even if they find a well that will run at high production for ten years, at the end of that ten years we are in the same place we are now except we have put off 10 years of research and advancement.
We need to stop trying to find excuses to put off acting like a responsible society.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Helenjw
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posted on March 11, 2005 10:47:32 AM new
"LOL helen - Still denying you said it huh?"
Yes, I deny the statement that you made. Neither you or anyone else here has provided evidence to support your statement.
Try to stay on topic for a change!
Just for you!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 11:08:51 AM new
fenix - okay...then what would you propose? Government intervention? More government regulations to force better conservation? Increasing gasoline/heating oil taxes so people would be forced to conserve? What [please]?
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on March 11, 2005 11:27:57 AM new
No - rather than try to enact hard to enforce laws or increase taxes put something in place that makes people WANT to conserve and change the pace rather than feeling that they are being FORCED to which something people naturally rebel against.
To encourage manufacturing - Build a sliding scale of tax breaks for auto manufacturers based on percentage of gas conserving hybrid auto sales. The more they can save, the more they will build and the better the incentives they will give to buyers.
To encourage consumers - Make depreciation on hybrid vehicles tax deductable for indivuals as well as businesses. Of course, using the policians influence over media in order to better educate them on the advatages wouldn't hurt either.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 11:42:45 AM new
To encourage manufacturing - Build a sliding scale of tax breaks for auto manufacturers based on percentage of gas conserving hybrid auto sales. The more they can save, the more they will build and the better the incentives they will give to buyers.
As it is now consumers CAN choose to buy small, high mileage cars....they're not. They're choosing luxury because 'they deserve it' they work so hard.
and any Tax break = more federal deficits [least that's what the left here keeps saying] - remember we're trying to NOT drive up the deficit. 
To encourage consumers - Make depreciation on hybrid vehicles tax deductable for indivuals as well as businesses.
These cars are pretty expensive and this, imo, would only benefit the 'rich' so many here complain about. Average Joe/Josephine still couldn't afford these cars, so wouldn't benefit.
Of course, using the policians influence over media in order to better educate them on the advatages wouldn't hurt either. That's IF they even believe what any politican tells them now.
Thanks for your input/opinions/suggestions....I just don't see them helping enough to make a noticable difference.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 11, 2005 11:44 AM ]
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logansdad
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posted on March 11, 2005 11:52:15 AM new
To encourage manufacturing - Build a sliding scale of tax breaks for auto manufacturers based on percentage of gas conserving hybrid auto sales. The more they can save, the more they will build and the better the incentives they will give to buyers.
If they have the technology to build small high mileage cars, the same technology can be applied to larger vehicles. In fact there are a few SUV's that are hybrid models.
The auto manufacturers are not being pressured enough by the government to increase fuel efficiency.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
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Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 11:58:48 AM new
In fact there are a few SUV's that are hybrid models.
okay...and just how much do these cars cost? Are they within the average American's budget for a family car?
To me, it's just like with energy. People aren't usually going to purchase say solar heating IF it costs a ton more than say using gas. They don't want to make that investment...and won't.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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logansdad
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posted on March 11, 2005 12:01:42 PM new
Again, it wouldn't matter if they found oil in your backyard. If they can't refine it fast enough to meet demand there will be a continual shortage, which translates to a higher prices!
Could increasing oil supply by tapping domestic reservoirs solve our gasoline troubles?
Foreign oil reliance is continuing to grow. U.S. consumers currently send over $200,000 every minute overseas to buy oil. We cannot simply drill our way out of the current gasoline supply woes; attempting to do so will only increase the severe environmental impacts of driving and we dont have enough domestic oil to make a significant dent in prices. Opening the Arctic wildlife refuge today won't produce oil for another 8-10 years, and even then will only be a drop in the bucket compared to our demand. By 2025, adopting fuel-efficient technologies would save three times more oil than is economically recoverable from the Arctic over its 50-year life. And tapping technology avoids the environmental degradation and air pollution that accompany increased oil drilling.
If improving fuel economy makes so much sense, why aren't automakers doing it already?
Automakers have a history of not incorporating cost effective technologies that benefit consumer safety and the environment until they are required to do so. As a result, government has had to step in to protect consumers by setting safety, fuel economy and emissions standards. One of the most recent in a line of examples is the air-bag that is now required in all new vehicles - automakers resisted this technology even in the face of clear demonstration of its safety benefits and calls from consumers for safer vehicles.
Why not rely on tax credits to improve fuel efficiency?
Tax credits are an important part of accelerating the emergence of advanced technology vehicles, but stronger fuel economy standards are necessary to lock in progress and ensure that fuel efficiency gains are seen throughout the industry in all types of vehicles, from sub-compacts to SUVs.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/cars_and_suvs/page.cfm?pageID=221#1
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
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fenix03
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posted on March 11, 2005 12:10:52 PM new
Linda - the Hybrids havie waiting lists of up to a year. Most people go car shopping when they need a new car, not when they need one a year from now. Having the cars on the lot ready to drive off will greatly increase their numbers.
Also - they are not that expensive. Of course increased production numbers would also enable prices but here are the current numbers.
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid - 25k
2005 Toyota Prius Hybrid - 22k
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid - 18k
2005 Honda Insight Hybrid - 19k
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid (SUV) - 25k
(Chevy and GMC both have Hybrid Pick-ups but I didn't have the price on them)
To put those numbers into perspecitive... a fully loaded Volkswagon Beetle with turbo, 6 speed transmission and convertable top is 25K.
SEE - We need better education to get rid of the misconceptions.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 11, 2005 12:16 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 12:13:34 PM new
No surprise that your site, logan, is from an environmental group formed in the state of MASS. Yep...they're all for protecting our environment....don't know if their extremists or not...but it's like I said before. You can't have it both ways. If you don't want the carabou in Alaska to be disrupted in one TINY little part of that enorous state....then just get used to high gasoline prices.
---
And on the other subject your article mentioned...
One of the most recent in a line of examples is the air-bag that is now required in all new vehicles - automakers resisted this technology even in the face of clear demonstration of its safety benefits and calls from consumers for safer vehicles.
I remember when report after report was being written because these bags that were intended to 'protect' the passangers were actually injuring them instead. Broken bones, injuries on accidents from certain car positions.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on March 11, 2005 12:21:44 PM new
hey now fenix - I wasn't disagreeing that education wouldn't help....I was disagreeing with just who you thought would/could best promote it.
Our friend was a new car manager in Los Gatos, CA. He would sell any vehicle that would sell well. He wouldn't have discouraged the sell of any hybrid models...he just wanted to up their sales. I'd project it's the same with most car dealerships.
So...I'm not clear on just who you might be suggesting is causing this 'hold-up' other than car manufactures. And once they 're-gear' their plants....at what expense I have no idea...then these cars CAN be mass produced.
Thanks for posting their costs....I was just about ready to go search.....because I had read, somewhere ?? that they ran in the 40,000 to 50,000 range for a full sized SUV.
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