posted on March 31, 2005 04:08:52 PM new
Cherished - It's not so much that I am for him as that I no faith in the family and that none of the stories that they have tried to spread to smear him have much logic.
You have the money theory... well, the only money he got was 300k and he got that immediately. He had that whether he turned Terri's care over to her parents or not and he was not able to touch the remainder so that one doesn't really make sense. It makes even less sense when you consider that he was offered one million dollars to hand guardianship over just a couple months ago and turned it down.
You have the abuse theory... anyone remember that the whole reason for that original pay-out was medical malpractice? Do you honestly believe that this woman admitted to a hospital and no one noticed a broken back, pelvis, ankle, and fractured skull or that when this case went to court that the hospital would not introduce evidence of abuse in their defense if any actually existed?
You have the selfish bastard theory... now seriously, if this guy was really the selfish bastard that he's been made out to be, why would he put himself thru this. Why jump in front of the media railroad and all that comes with it unless he truly believes that what he is doing is right, that it was his wife's wishes and that as her husband, it is what is owed to her.
Then you have the religious leader and advisers like the one that stated that just this morning, minutes before her death she was alert and opening and closing her eyes on cue to pray with him.
For some reason all of the pro save Terri medical experts seem to be ignoring the CAT scan that shows the condition of her cerebral cortex. None are disputing what it shows, they are simply not acknowledging it's presence.
I don't believe that Michael is a saint. I think he is just as human as you or I but I find it a little suspicious when a group of people work so hard to portray him and the ultimate evil, especially when their accusations don't match up to physical evidence.
I think her parents did not want to let go of their little girl and certainly do not want to accept that it was her own actions (bulimia) that brought her to this point and it's much easier to make someone else target of their pain and anger than accept and deal with a very painful reality. I think that that is very human as well.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 31, 2005 04:09 PM ]
posted on March 31, 2005 04:38:28 PM new
dblfugger
I know this because my boss is an M.D. In case you don't know, that stands for Medical Doctor. With a degree. In fact, he's also a PhD. A retired pathologist. But, like Libra knows more about Wills than my attorney does, you know more about medicine than an M.D., PhD.
posted on March 31, 2005 05:10:04 PM new
ROFL! So youre more qualified to speak on the subject than me because YOUR BOSS is a doctor??? That doesnt make YOU a doctor, too <in case you didnt know>.
posted on March 31, 2005 05:19:00 PM new
And how bout you, beepee? Is Lou Dobbs your father? Is that how you get to ride his republican opinionated shadow of T.H.I.S. W.H.I.T.E H.O.U.S.E? Thats only his favorite terminlogy. Another joker climbs on board.
She WAS resting in peace...alive..until a court officer decided she shouldnt be getting any water.
posted on March 31, 2005 05:24:19 PM new
"I know this because my boss is an M.D. In case you don't know, that stands for Medical Doctor. With a degree. In fact, he's also a PhD. A retired pathologist. But, like Libra knows more about Wills than my attorney does, you know more about medicine than an M.D., PhD. "
and I know more about sex then the both of you put together
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My sex life isnt dead yet....but the buzzards are circling
No, I never said I was a doctor. However, I do talk with ours quite a lot. We've been friends on and off the job for five years. Terri Shiavo has been the topic of conversation lately and we've discussed all of this. I'm relaying what I've been told by a qualified medical personal. That's all.
This was a no-win situation. However, I don't think it's right to have had it splashed through the media. There are people who are going through this all over this country. Where's their news coverage? How do you think their families are feeling? They didn't have Congress try to run interference. No President tried to come to their rescue. No Governor got heavily involved. It was a media circus with this poor woman stuck smack dab in the middle of it. I think it was a good thing that she didn't realize what was going on around her. There was nothing dignified about any of it.
posted on March 31, 2005 06:38:22 PM new
I sure wouldn't want to be kept alive as long as she was in that condition and would never do that to anyone. I was the legal guardian for both of my parents when they died. I felt terrible that my mother was on a respirator and a feeding tube for over a month,she only lived three weeks after being taken off of it. I ask them not to do anything to bring my father back as was his wishes. I also refused all medication for him the last month he lived. People told me how cruel I was,why should he have to be sick from the medicine,he was dying why not let him at least be able to eat without being sick.
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Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on March 31, 2005 06:56:55 PM new
Cheryl it is tough to talk about anything in the RT because either you have been there, worked with them, new them personally or something or other. And you know the answer to everything.
relaying what I've been told by a qualified medical personalat's all. Physicians are not God. I am sure another qualified medical personal would say something else.
I am not an MD but I do know about the living wills, they are unlike the wills people leave before they die for their belongings. They (living Wills) are done by
you and me to protect you and me so that this
doesn't happen. They cannot be changed unless you change them yourself.
Tell me if Terri Schiavo had told her parents something different than
what Michael Schiavo said than what would take precedence? That is why a living will is needed.
I have probably been friends with MD's more years than you are of age but that doesn't mean I sit down and talk personally with them. I might ask their view but they are only views.
posted on March 31, 2005 08:59:30 PM new
Libra--I remember reading the Terri Schiavo's parents said in court that even if she had signed a living will they would have fought it.
posted on March 31, 2005 09:04:32 PM new
Here's an example of a living will not being carried by wife of patient.
FOX News
Wednesday, March 23, 2005
EXCERPT:
DOYLESTOWN, Pa. — A judge temporarily barred a Philadelphia woman from prolonging her husband's life with a feeding tube, which his daughter claims is contrary to his wishes.
Like the federal court battle over the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube in Florida, the Bucks County Court case of Alzheimer's disease victim John P. King Jr. is complicated by disagreement among family members.
Unlike Schiavo, the 72-year-old King had signed a living will, but the document didn't avert the dispute that led to a preliminary injunction signed late Tuesday by President Judge David W. Heckler.
< snip >
Ann King said she had asked for insertion of a feeding tube. "I have been talking to the doctor about it for while," she said. She said she didn't know about the injunction, and declined to comment further.
Though the living will stated King's opposition to a feeding tube in the event of permanent unconsciousness, it also named Ann King as her husband's surrogate, with the power to carry out his wishes if he is "unable or incompetent to make or express a decision."
posted on March 31, 2005 09:25:09 PM new
Evidently you have not fully read a living will. In the form you fill out there are many questions and one question is do you wish a surrogate? If you do you say who it is. It is not just anyone it is who the person filling out the living will designates. If you don't want one than what the will says will take effect. Read your last statement. It says the patient named Ann King the surrogate. It doesn't say anyone can be surrogate.
posted on March 31, 2005 09:52:30 PM new
This is from the University of Michigan website-
23. Is a living will legally binding?
Although 41 states have laws giving living wills legal force, Michigan has not yet passed such a law. Doctors and hospitals might comply with your wishes, but no one can provide absolute assurance.
posted on March 31, 2005 10:54:20 PM new
This is from the State of Michigans website.
Living Wills
In addition to a Health Care Power of Attorney, another document, known as a Living Will, is used to plan future health care choices. The Health Care Power of Attorney and the Living Will are called advance directives. A Living Will sets out medical treatments you choose to have, as well as the procedures or treatments you do not want to have in some or all circumstances. Note that a Living Will is different than a Last Will and Testament. A Living Will is instructions for your doctor, while you are still alive. A Last Will and Testament is instructions to your personal representative and the probate court, only to be used after your death.
A Living Will is different from a Health Care Power of Attorney in that the Living Will does not appoint another person to speak for you. It speaks for you in writing. While a Health Care Power of Attorney can include written instructions for your patient advocate to follow, the choices do not have to be included for the Health Care Power of Attorney to be used. If a Living Will also includes your choice as patient advocate, it automatically becomes a Health Care Power of Attorney and must follow the state law requirements for witnesses, required language, etc. Since a Health Care Power of Attorney form is widely available, and is enforceable by Michigan statute, it is the smartest choice if you are concerned about these issues.
Excerpted with permission from Advancing Smartly: A Legal Handbook for Michigan Women Age 60+. Published by Elder Law of Michigan (www.elderslaw.org)
A. All requests for cremation, burial at sea, or donations must be approved by the Medical Examiner prior to the actual cremation.
1. Before authorizing the irretrievable disposal of a body by cremation, the Medical Examiner must be assured that no future question will arise about the cause or circumstances of the death of the individual.
2. The death, if previously unreported to the Medical Examiner, must first be verified as a non-Medical Examiner case according to Florida Statutes, 406.11.
B. Approval of a cremation, and accepting the responsibility for irretrievably destroying potential evidence, is a decision based on the quality of the information on the death certificate. The death certificate should be accompanied by a CREMATION APPROVAL FORM filled out by the attending physician to demonstrate that the death was due to natural causes. The cause of death on the death certificate must be sufficient to:
1. rule out trauma,
2. identify the immediate cause(s) of death, i.e. septicemia, peritonitis, bronchopneumonia, renal failure, etc., and
3. identify the underlying or proximate cause of death - the "due to" disease or injury responsible for initiating the lethal sequence of events.
C. The most common pitfalls this office encounters with causes of death are:
1. failure to state the underlying cause of death;
2. scrambling of immediate and underlying causes of death; and
3. listing extraneous data in the section entitled 'Other Significant Conditions'. The section 'Other Significant Conditions' (Part II) should be used only for those conditions
that contribute to death, but are unrelated to the cause(s) listed in Part I.
D. The CREMATION APPROVAL FORM is often helpful in clarifying the cause of death as well as providing additional medical history that assures that the death was not by violence.
Words like subdural, fracture, sepsis, fall, trauma, cardiac arrest, heart failure, hemiplegia, quadriplegia, paraplegia, and shock typically do not explain a natural death and often indicate a traumatic origin. It is necessary to rule out traumatic underlying causes or identify the natural disease processes,
posted on April 1, 2005 03:00:05 AM new
Libra-you said "If there is a living will nobody and I mean nobody can go against it." The first example I C&P'd showed that even the person appointed as healthcare proxy tried and may succeed in going against instructions of the patients living will. Then I C & P'd from State of Michigan website that not all states recognize Living Wills as yet--not health care proxies or durable power of attorney A LIVING WILL. You responded with Michigan Website info about durable power of attorney. Here's one more copy and paste from:
Healthcare Today-The ABC's of Living Wills.
Are living wills recognized in every state?
Laws authorizing living wills have been enacted in more than 40 states. However, these laws can vary in important ways. For example, according to some state laws, instructions in living wills must be followed only when individuals are suffering from a disease that will shortly lead to their deaths, regardless of medical interventions. Other states’ laws provide that living will instructions are effective even if a person is in an irreversible coma that will not cause the person’s death. In some states, individuals may write living wills at any time while in others, individuals may not write living wills once they have acquired a terminal illness. Some states recognize living wills for specific periods of time, for example five years, while other states place no time limits on the effectiveness of living wills. Significantly, some states will not legally acknowledge instructions in living wills that direct the removal of feeding tubes that provide nutrition and hydration.
Advantages and disadvantages of living wills
Using a living will allows you to specify the circumstances under which you wish to receive particular types of life-sustaining treatment. Thus, living wills can give you some control over your medical care when life and death decisions need to be made. However, living wills are ordinarily not used to delineate treatment decisions you would wish put into effect in the event you were to suffer from a nonterminal illness and lose your ability to make treatment decisions. In addition, even in a terminal illness context, it is impossible to anticipate in a living will all of the possible treatment choices with which you might be faced. Thus, regardless of how detailed you make your living will, there still may arise unexpected circumstances not covered by it. An additional difficulty with using living wills is that conflicts can arise over its proper interpretation when treatment decisions need to be made.
All I am saying is that Living Wills are not infallible. In most cases the wishes are carried out without problems. However, there is the ability to misinterpret the intent of the patient and, in some cases, to ignore the wishes of the patient, as in the case I cited. The patient counted on his wife following the directions in his living will and she let him down. I hope you can at least see my point, but I doubt it.
You are given all these examples and proof and still you won't listen. No wonder you and Linda got along so well on this board. Two peas in a pod. And, yes, I have been there, done that. Unlike you, I find things out for myself. I ask questions of the right people, I read more than one source and if I have to physically go out and find the answer, I do. I know better than you how politics work. I've been physically involved in it for a few years now. I've worked for accountants, brokers, banks, attorneys, unions, newspapers, hospitals and politicians. And you?
I know the answer to everything? I think you have me confused with your American Idol, Linda.
posted on April 1, 2005 03:56:43 AM new
American Idol?
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My sex life isnt dead yet....but the buzzards are circling
No, I've had to hold down more than one job at a time. Ever try it? I once held down three jobs at once to help support my family. Right now I have three if you count eBay. In fact, I've always had more than one job. I come from a long line of hard workers. No job lasted less than two years. Most more than three. Two were lay-offs - in 2000 and 2001. Hmmm, wonder who was president then.
posted on April 1, 2005 05:07:31 AM new
cheryl-I've had one job for 36 years-because Im a republican.Get smart and become a republican and you too can have a nice long steady job.
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My sex life isnt dead yet....but the buzzards are circling
posted on April 1, 2005 06:07:45 AM new
Cheryl, LOL about all the MINORITY MIND SET RIGHT TO LIFE CROWD & BIBLE THUMPERS WHEN THEY LOOSE. Some even send out death threats. They need to relize they are very much a MINORITY IN AMERICA plus they are not getting from their leaders what was promised to them. Oh well people like us tried to tell them. LOL
posted on April 1, 2005 06:26:05 AM new
Open your eyes peepee. THAT MINORITY voted in Bush. And if being a minority is being UNLIKE you, I'm all for it.
And I'll have to watch Lou Dobbs to figure out whats with this new minority mantra sh* your probably twisting around to your own meaning. Like being a minority is something evil now? What a kook!
posted on April 1, 2005 06:58:01 AM new
In all seriousness, no I've never had to hold down two jobs at once. The closest I've come is going to college and working part time, and now having a full-time job and doing ebay part-time.
I know I've been blessed to have the same job for the last 22 years - even though I sometimes hate the job. I realize not all would use the word "blessed", but as my religion and relationship to God is very important to me, that's the way I see it.
(And unlike Classic, I am a Democrat - yes religious and democrat. Is that a minority, Peepa?)
posted on April 1, 2005 06:59:13 AM new
Go back and read your post. I hate to correct you coincoach but you said the University of Michigan website not the State of Michigan website. I quoted from the State of Michigan Website. See you even said it yourself.
most cases the wishes are carried out without problemsHowever, there is the ability to misinterpret the intent of the patient and, in some cases,
I said if you look at a living will application you will find a part where you can appoint a surrogate. If no surrogate is appointed your living will must be as you say it is.
As for you Cheryl I am Republican and In my 45 years of working I had only 5 jobs. Just because you work for Kuchinch doesn't mean you know everything. But of course the way you post in here with that attitude how can we dispute it.
posted on April 1, 2005 08:27:19 AM new
No Libra---you love to correct me! Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, I did err in stating the name of the website,but the fact remains that Living Wills are not infallible. If you read what I posted you would see that. Do you? I do not understand your point. You pulled out a quote which says exactly what I am trying to get at. Living Wills can be misinterpreted or even ignored in some cases. Go back and read your post--"If there is a living will nobody and I mean nobody can go against it."
Although it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, I did err in stating the name of the website,but the fact remains that Living Wills are not infallible. If you read what I posted you would see that. Do you? I do not understand your point. You pulled out a quote which says exactly what I am trying to get at. Living Wills can be misinterpreted or even ignored in some cases. Go back and read your post--"If there is a living will nobody and I mean nobody can go against it."