posted on September 6, 2000 12:20:11 PM
Karen, thank YOU for sharing some professional comments --- indeed, I not only think that board participants are NOT representative, I seriously believe that the DEMOGRAPHIC profile of the actual board participant is prolly a bit *whacky*, lol --- much less the FACT that every journalist is aware of, as so many stories have been written about it, is that the Internet messageboards and chatrooms are NOTORIOUS for being filled with FAKE SHAM PAID Userids whose job is to manipulate, influence, subterfuge and even engage in corporate sabotage by FAKE POSTS which advance the agenda of the company which pays them.
Such posters are called "CONSULTANTS" in net-hype languagese...
please recall that I was addressing Amy's post in which there was a position statement that board complaints WERE NOT representative because non posters must be happy. (those unhappy with their fords complained; those who didn't complain about their fords must therefore be happy with their fords) My submission only refuted the 'must be' implication of that post, since no empirical sampling was extant.
"As Zina once said in another messagethread, Pierre Omidyar's vision is so SIMPLE, that it is very difficult for most to understand, but I'm sure that in the future, there will finally be a "eureka!" and finally some knowledgable analysis will proceed."
Yes, I agree... that's if they follow the original vision. But I submit that they have not, and are taking a sharp turn away from it.
Original vision:
"I had been thinking about how to create an efficient marketplace - a level playing field, where everyone had access to the same information and could compete on the same terms as anyone else." P.Omidyar
Current vision:
Disney/Go.com/ABC, AutoTrader, OurHouse, eTopps, Athlets Direct, Artist Direct, Planet Hollywood, etc. etc. etc.
Some day in the future they'll write scads about how obvious it was how eBay succeeded, particular in the last year of the millenium, 2000, and how strange it was that noone noticed in advance, and wasn't it funny that during 2000 that NO EXPERT ANYWHERE happened to notice that eBay, under the expert leadership of Omidyar/Whitman/Skoll and dozens of other superb eBay management miraculously not only did not lose marketshare, but wonder-of-wonders, eBay did not merely NOT go bankrupt, like 90% of other ecommerce, but actually had the wits & expertise to attract the Upscale Consumer, the ones who had been fed alla that propraganda memic intentional disinformation that eBay is only a garage sale with only flea market merchandise, sold by a buncha trailer trash whose claim to fame was FRAUD.
eBay is taking control of its IMAGE, and will halt the stupid vile disinformation campaign; Whitman will continue to march forward like Guderian/Rommel and NoOne will notice except for one random Net k00k; Pierre Omidyar will end uP proving to the entire world that libertarian techniques are the only cyberway to go; eBay will be found in EVERY single nook & crany before it nitiates the eBayMartian Interplanetary Trading Post, from which I will be the first to auction off Mars Bars, and in looking back, financial analysts will note that none of the sellers at eBay ever, not ever, were stupid trailer trash, and will also document that those sellers who adjusted & adapted to eBay ending up with successful eBizzes - which of course demanded the capability to change & innovate on a dime, in less than nano-time, and w@w, even though the rest of the ecommerce GAVE away millions of dollars of mdse in the name of branding, that it didn't work, they couldn't steal eBay's business.
eBay's gonna change the world.
eBay is UNSTOPPABLE.
You say the 'EXperts' are 'stooopid' with their analysis. This suggests that you have an analysis of your own that is not 'stooopid'. Would you share that with us, or if it's been shared before, will you point the way?
Remember one time you mentioned in email when you said something about that it was hard to envision me as an Old Biddy, which I had described myself as?
Well, listen, I am not into pop-psychology, so I don't know if it exists or not, but if there is such a thing as a psychological dynamic of Getting in Touch with the Essential Old Biddy - that's kinda where I'm at.... an Olde Biddie onna HighHorse, to be exact.
I am really appalled with some of the eBiz """analyses""" I've been reading online these past few weeks, and ...... uhm, Bobby, I am waiting for one of these """""Experts""""" to see what I can see, and really, omigawdsakes, that shouldn't be so hard, I mean I assure you that I am NOT the one with the MBA.
Ya know, I am sooooooo glad that you went to eBay, and I want to thank you again for taking the time & energy to confer with them.
For myself, health permitting, I intend to fully determine and delineate precisely what it takes for me to be a successful seller on eBay, without (!!) becoming a home-based digital sweatshop.
We are living in times that are gonna make the early Industrial Revolution look like EDEN, gans eden itself, and this old biddy ain't gonna be a luddite, ~ NO way!
I surmise that the next few years are gonna be real rough, but I guess I'm kinda getting used to this exponential rate of change-change-change, faster & faster alla the time.
posted on September 6, 2000 06:49:59 PM
OK, here's mine.
ebaY talks about it being a new business model, and it is. I don't think they fully understand the model, however... and that is a great deal of the problem. It underlies all of the problems they are having with their declining numbers, lack of growth, etc.
Consider our society and the 3 spheres of influence.
There is the political/religious
The economic
And the social/cultural.
These 3 are always working around each other, but at different times throughout history, one is on top, it's supported by another, and to the overall detriment of the third.
In the Middle Ages, the Social/Cultural was on top, and it was supported by the political/religious. The economic suffered, there was very little of it at all. People lived in their homes, had strong families, and this was supported by the church (which was very powerful) and kingdoms, etc.
Then the shift began. The Crafts Guilds began to form, and they lead to the industrial Revolution. This shifted the economic to the top, and it is supported by the political/religious, and to the detriment of the social/cultural. The breakdown of family values, etc. etc. The economy is very strong, it drives everything. The political structure supports it.
OK, now enter the Internet and eBay. Everyone says the Internet is a revolution, eBay is a new model, etc. etc. But what does that mean? Here's what I believe it means. It is a societal shift. The political structure cannot keep pace with technology. By the time a new law is created, technology has rendered it obsolete. The government keeps putting the Internet on 'hold' because they are waiting for it to 'settle out' so they can make laws. But this will never happen! It will never 'settle out'. Also, globalization of commerce and economy is changing all of that. Look at France trying to regulate what content comes to their country from Yahoo!. It's an impossible issue. They can't regulate or govern it and that is what they do. So they are starting to become less and less important because the internet is preventing them from performing their function, just by it's nature.
OK, now the eBay model, the Internet itself, it is an economic model that supports a social/cultural structure. The economy of eBay, Yahoo! and others enables people to stay home more, to work from home, to make a living and strengthen their social structure. The boards and chat areas and such allow people to connect with others in new ways, people all over the world. Take MAM for instance. There are people who are very involved in Austrailia, Hong Kong, California, I'm in Texas, Florida, NY, Wisconsin, Maryland, North Carolina, several Canadian provinces, etc. etc. And together, we all come with a singular interest and combine out thoughts to form one giant brain (LOL!). Just like here at AW. But we are also able to work from home, many sellers homeschool their kids, because the schools are not doing a good job. Many of them work out of the home and care for sick relatives. Many are ill or handicapped themselves, but through this model, they have a new income and a new way to live their lives. Lots of folks just do this because they enjoy it and it's a great way to make money.
This IS in it's infancy. The gradual turn of the societal structure is just beginning.
eBay's vision was to facilitate commerce, and through that make money. The better job you do of it, the more money you make. eBay WAS in the business of using it's economic model to facilitate the social/cultural elements of society. That's why people like it.
And this is what eBay just does NOT get now! To make money, they must work to make US successful. Instead, they spend a great deal of time and energy trying to figure out how to make money off of us. This is where the breakdown occurs and it started with the hiring of Meg. They put in a new UserAgreement that changed the focus of the company from working with users in a dynamic partnership, to building a wall and separating users from eBay. From there to here, their growth has been due to the brilliance of the original vision, and their staying the course to support it. But slowly they've been turning away from that. And they did a big turn in March. They started competitive banners on the search pages. Not many, just a few. It was a sign though of the future. They announced new partnerships with Disney and Topps that would put them in direct competition with sellers, and on a different playing field. One that was no longer level. At the same time, they moved to stop users from promoting their websites.
OK, there are many changes they've made that lead to this. It's been a slow progression. And now things have stalled, and the reason is because they are losing people as fast as they are getting them.
With the invitation of 'big business' into eBay on a separate level, we see this as an exploitation of our market. The market we have created. The reason people come to eBay is to find 2 things. They want to find the unique items they can't find elsewhere, and they want to find bargains on commodity goods. 'Bargain' being 'less than retail'. Why is this? It's because the distribution of commodity goods is very successful. Unless you are FAR removed from civilization, there is a WalMart and a bunch of various chain outlets for the purchase of commodities. That stuff is all over the place. Right now, they are doing it on a smaller scale on the net, and they are trying to offer promotions and such to get people into the idea, but it's really not worked for any of them, yet.
The shipping rates are going WAY up in January. People won't be buying hammers and shampoo online. I like to try my pants on before I buy them, so I don't have to mess with returns.
But the distribution of UNIQUE goods is very difficult! So the net has made that easy. I can take my HR Pufnstuf premium and find the person in Saginaw who wants it because of the Internet. THIS is the model of eCommerce. Creating this type of distribution. So chains put their mail order catalog online instead of mailing it to you. It takes too long to look through. Checkout is confusing. Etc. etc. And goods that people make... Or hooking buyers up with something not available in their area...
Many people come to eBay to sell things they have laying around. They are small sellers who hear about it and sell a couple of things. Then they realize, when they want something, that they can find it on eBay too. This is how it works. Many are buyers and sellers. Most buyers have sold a few things. Making them happy with their sales brings them back to buy. Also, many people start by trying it out with a couple of things first. They may have a whole housefull or warehousefull or store full of goods, but they start with a couple of things to see if it's what they want to do. Making them successful in the beginning leads to their involvement to a greater level. This all boils down to education. Helping people use the system to make money or buy effectively. When you do that, things grow from within. eBay used to be MUCH more simple and it's become more complex. Now people are baffled by it, they don't understand it. Helping them understand it is the key to success. ebaY has lost that vision, I believe, and they have chosen a course away from it. And it 2010, we'll be reading about ebaY, but it will be posthumous.
posted on September 6, 2000 07:40:52 PM
I've said this elsewhere, but after toyranch's fascinating essay, I thought I'd talk about it again.
I came to eBay, and until earlier this year, recommended it to others, for one reason: finding unique stuff. This can be "older" collectibles that are spread in tiny quantities across the whole country (or elsewhere in the world), or newer stuff that would otherwise be sold from one mailing address I'd likely never find.
I have no -- nada, negative, zero -- interest in coming to eBay to buy items I could buy at some grocery/department/mall/mega store a few miles away. I also have infinite disinterest in coming to eBay to be covered in cookie crumbs and have bugs crawling all over me.
I can go plenty of other places for medium to high volume commodities -- and plenty of other sites where direct marketers would gladly track me if I didn't take steps to block them.
eBay was and still is the only company I've registered at to buy stuff online, partly because they had all sorts of mostly unique stuff from all over the place, and partially because I trusted them.
The former is getting diluted and the latter is lost, and I think that as a result, I'm losing interest. eBay is trying to become like so many other companies on the Web, intead of the then-unique entity that convinced me to register.
If anyone could use their current profitability to build a potentially profitable superstore, I'd have to agree it is eBay, but if, during their transformation, they cost themselves too much of their current base, they may lose their profitability in the process.
I'm not going to declare eBay whether 2010 will see eBay as the megasite or as a historical study, I just doubt I'm going to be buying on eBay by the end of 2001, much less 2010.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on September 6, 2000 07:42:12 PM
well my two cents worth is this I think if you put all the people and groups togeather who post on boards and share about auctions I would say this does make up the majority.
there are many of these boards and other groups out there. they make up the bigest majority of noncasual bidders and buyers.
for all auction sites.
face it the people who want sell the 1 to 4 items a month or a year on ebay is casual and if its is no longer at or no longer suported by ebay they will find another places to take there few items to sell or search else where for the few things they buy most all know at this time ebay is no longer the only game in town for this its all over every billboard tv radio news paper and magazine.
and yahoo was and has been a house hold name years before ebay was heard of.
what did it say in the same paper the same day about ebay this.
ebay the #1 by far still but being closed in on fast by yahoo and the others is a online auction site whos main source of income is fee collected from people who list items for sale and a finail value fee charged if there item sells, this a spokes person for ebay says makes up 98% of there sole source of income.
lets look at what Ebay is doing partnering with disney.com who partnered with go.com cause it was loseing who partnered with espn.com cause they were loseing and so on and they are takeing and makeing a very large investment advertizeing that is proveing to be very costly and not working as well as it use to.
This all sounds like one big last ditch effort I mean they nearly or did depending on how you read there story called the source of 98% of there income trailer trash.
look as it is the ecomonomy is cooling off. computer sales are falling off, some companys are getting out of the home computer market all togeather .
this means there is less new people getting online then in the last 5 years now not more.
Even if a flood does come will they be of a higher income bracket, concider the lower end priced PC market that is aimed at getting the lower income people online and how sucessfull this has been and it will tell you what the income bracket they should be aiming at is.
the thousands and millions of people who have poured there $500 to $800 saveings or maxed out there CC limits to buy them are far from the higher income bracket, they will be parents who wanted there tweens to be able to learn to use computer Tweens kids ages 8 to 12 years old
they will be the folks who work for McDonalds and Kmarts you remember them min wage 30 hour or less work per week even when you work Over time they never work you till they must pay time and a half.
the older people on fixed incomes be they retired or disabled not able to invest in computer when they were $2000 to $3000 that want to know what all this noise is about.
The higher income bracket
corerect me if im wrong but the higher income bracket owned computers frist its us the people that been here the last 5 to 8 years were already at ebay. remember your frist hard drive buy you know the 1 meg that cost $1000
remember your frist floopy drive you know the one you bought at radio shack wasnt it up there like $250 to $700 mine was and then to be usefull with a fair operateing system you needed two.
infact many of us who put out that type of money who were interested in programing and unix and bulletin board systems arent many of them the local internet provider we use to be here on line today.
wouldnt these people be your high income bracket buyers I think so.
arent we the ones that have made the internet and the web what it is ??? They are already dealing with the high income bracket and think us trailer trash.
some times to grow bigger and exspand you must look up to them with less.1 rich person who will spend upto $1000 maybe once a year or 5000 who will spend up to $1,000 month a after month for years.
and isnt that what many of us have already been doing at ebay weather we are sellers paying ebay to sell or buyer who pay sellers who keep selling.
I keep hearing them ads on radio about the wins of the car auction on ebay.
if I had money in pocket for any high end Item I want wouldnt I just pick up the phone and have it delivered now. why would I bid ebay.
all the advertizeing in the world prolly wouldnt reach me on the beach in that warm far away spot on earth I might be at.
this garage sale bum middle classed trail trash seller will be watch ebay close and know if ebay goes this route He is sitting pretty on yahoo with feed back and inventory On the ready when the better percentage head that way.
in the mean time though I been called trailer trash ebay is still thanking me as well for my payment and I am betting they will not do away with the small seller but will take the risk of looking some what like a flea market on a weekend and will even look up to the flood of littler sellers and buyer who come along to grow.
posted on September 6, 2000 07:53:15 PM
Bobby and Ray - YOU HAVE NAILED IT
RADH - I know what you are saying and that you THINK ebaY is still on course - but I think you are unfortunately WRONG. I think you are seeing what is no longer there - but as with everything, only time will tell. Either I am brilliant and right or you are brilliant and right. You think ebaY is doing the right thing and I think they have lost their way. I also interpret the end of the Fortune article differently than you do. You see it as Wall Street affirming ebaYs current course, I see it as Wall Street being on to the next thing hence the basic stall in ebaYs srock price. Again, only time will tell, but I for one am not going to wait and see. I am going to do whatever it is I can do to make the OAI and online trading in general for all the individual sellers and buyers a social construct that continues through my lifetime at least - and hopefully into the future.
I am not thrilled with the quality of the Forbes article (besides the fact that some of the reporters FACTS were plain wrong) but I am glad to see the established press (Fortune, Forbes, Bloomberg etc) reporting on the OAI and MAM. And also that they are all subscribed to TAGnotes (along with ebaY , Yahoo, Amazon etc). So TAGnotes has become a source document to them, just wish they would give me more credit lines so that the subscriber list would start growing exponentially instead of linearly Guess you can't have everything! -Rosalinda
(edited cause KRS got me)
posted on September 6, 2000 09:46:49 PM
eBay is the most successful ecommerce corporation and the generals who run it are all very well aware of its chief distinguishing characteristics, the intrinsic features which differentiate it from alla those mediocre, secondary eBay-wannabes out there. The same generals are also hip to what constitutes just another "pretty" shopping portal, as opposed to what constitutes the most fascinating FUN way to conduct biz online.
eBay did NOT go bankrupt this year, and this miraculous happenstance, in comparison to the rest of the dot.gones, and the gonnabee dot.gones indicates a buncha smart business people. eBay will NOT go bankrupt next year, as it is run by people who have a vision which they will uphold.
eBay has NO viable competition, just a buncha wanna~get~eBay~profits with no eBay service and no eBay added-value.
This ain't analogous to the Renaissance, imo, not by a long shot, and if anybody thinks that the transition from agrarian to city slums to power the factories of the industrial revolution was a bizarre historical transition for humanity, they ain't seen nuthin' yet that will so revolutionize the course of the future as that wrought by eBay.
This is history with a capital "H" and the future is bearing down upon us at breakneck speed.
posted on September 6, 2000 10:36:05 PM
My two cents:
First, AW does not represent an accurate sampling of all eBay users. It seems clear to me that AW draws mainly sellers who wish to discuss, share, and learn business practices. Yes, there are other users and other purposes for posting here, but I think the great majority of AW posters are sellers.
We are not bonkers. And while there are a fair number of venting threads (not without reason) and others, I think the AW eBay Outlook does provide pretty accurate feedback on many of eBay's new policies and practices vis-a-vis sellers. I see most sellers here as serious, intelligent and informed. We don't waste time whining and complaining. That said, eBay HAS implemented many new policies lately that are detrimental to us and eBay itself.
My objection to the Forbes article was the inferred suggestion that message board posters are mainly "contentious" flea market junk sellers who have just come in out of the rain. My own experience demonstrates that most eBay sellers are profesionally-minded and do a very good job of operating a home-based mail order business.
These message forums may not be representative of the opinions of all eBay sellers or users, but in fact, they are far more valuable as a barometer of eBay's actions and policies. If eBay goes down half the time over a two-week period, is it any surprise to see complaints here? That in no way detracts from the valuable input in these forums. Forbes dismisses us because they don't understand that eBay is built on the the back of us contentious "garage-sale entrepreneurs."
posted on September 7, 2000 11:18:01 AM
I think Pierre got it, and probably Jeff Skoll got it, but I do not think Meg gets it or any of the MBAs now trying to turn what was ebaY the phenom earth shattering world changing concept, into just another online failure. My Daddy always says "actions speak louder than words", and ebaYs ACTIONS spell disaster and ruination of what was a revolutionary form of empowerment of the individual. What they had, worked, what they are doing to it now - in MY opinion - will fail, if they continue on their current course. Only time will tell who had the better and more accurate gut feeling, and who was the better predicter of the future.
I for one am not going to sit around and let the future just take its course leaving us to take what comes. I see this as a movement for social action, and I am committed to make it work.
-Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry
http://www.egroups.com/group/TheAuctionGuildnotes
dc9.....: say, i hope you are still following this thread. i haven't had any time to read but a very few of my egroups messages, but i did have to delete a bunch, unread, just to make room in my mailbox, .... and out of the very few messages i did happen to open, i learned that the URL down below is being passed around at egroups, and it is touted to eliminate the banner ads on the posts.
i hope it's FOR REAL, and not just another stupid hoax site. FWIW, if anything, here's the address:
A short comment to ROS: You and I should both win trips to Starbucks corporate headquarters in Seattle, cuz we could have an interesting chat over 8 hours of expresso, LOL!
posted on September 8, 2000 10:56:37 AM
twinsolft mentions, "These message forums may not be representative of the opinions of all eBay sellers or users, but in fact, they are far more valuable as a barometer of eBay's actions and policies."
~ ~ ~
VerY valuable!
Indeed AuctionWatch.com has provided incalculably valuable FREE consultancy to eBay.
I wouldn't be surprised if they take bets, occasionally, trying to correctly duess in advance, "Okay, what will be the most negative slant over at AW about this?"
What a FREE great service alla these BASH-eBay Posts provide -- there's nowhere ya could go and get PAID consultancy of the calibre that is here, day in and day out.
posted on September 8, 2000 11:28:38 AM
Hi again, Ros. Say, before I comment on one of your comments, something *important* - we received the Winterthur's Mail Order Catalogue yesterday, and I noticed that among their offerings is: a pineapple lamp; a pineapple footstool; a set of pineapple (little "knife" spreaders.
You said, "I think Pierre got it, and probably Jeff Skoll got it, but I do not think Meg gets it or any of the MBAs now trying to turn what was ebaY the phenom earth shattering world changing concept, into just another online failure."
~ ~ ~
I disagree.
Although Pierre was already a successful millionaire before eBay, I believe that he was genuinely startled by AuctionWeb's great popularity. Now, because he did not need money, he was able to become engrossed by the archetypically significant concept of Community.
Pierre and Jeff both knew they did not have the expertise to run this ever-exponentially growing phenomenon, and although they are both geniuses, they also are quite YOUNG, and no... I don't think that they "got" it; I think they were too busy and too young to "get" it.
I think they were very perplexed, and simply took shelter at the eye of the whirlwind where they worked 80 hour weeks.
Because Pierre did NOT need a cent, and because both Pierre and Jeff are decidedly nonmaterialist folks, they - or rather people of their ilk, (a rather rare commodity) were MANDATORY for the seed to take root successfully.
Bob Kagle and the eBoys at Benchmark were impressed that eBay turned a PROFIT, and idealistic Kagle realized that eBay could have a positive impact upon Humanity.
It was Meg Whitman who understood, in a way not possible to Kagle, Omidyar, or Skoll that, "This is gonna be big."
I have a sneaking suspicion that here FIRST analysis of *big* has undergone radical revisions in the years since she first intuitively surmised that eBay was gonna be """big""".
LOL!
Big?
What an oH s0 very werry small word, B-I-G, for what will successfully deliver the predominant species of planet earth firmly into the 21st Century. It is very difficult for the human mind to conceive of such a gargantuan quantity. Big. Yes, Margaret - eBay is gonna be "big."
posted on September 8, 2000 11:34:36 AM
Up above, toyranch quotes Pierre Omidyar:
"I had been thinking about how to create an efficient marketplace - a level playing field, where everyone [repeat: E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E] had access to the same information and could compete on the same terms as anyone else."
P.Omidyar, circa DarkAges: 1994
~ ~ ~ ~
Anyone got a Oxford Dictionary of English?
If so, please define: everyone, n.
p.s. Where do these Libertarians come from???! Mars? LOL!
posted on September 8, 2000 11:50:57 AM
toyranch mentions. "ebaY talks about it being a new business model, and it is. I don't think they fully understand the model, however... and that is a great deal of the problem. It underlies all of the problems they are having with their declining numbers, lack of growth, etc."
~ ~ ~ ~
ALL OF THE PROBLEMS EBAY IS HAVING?
LOL, that one's actually humorous - in fact, eBay is the ONE $UCE$$FUL ecommerce site.
LACK OF GROWTH????????
Yeah, sure! I'd better go rush over to amazon.com, that stellar enterprise which had delusions of grandeur that it would become the walamazonmart of cyberspace -- yeah, I'll go list over there where there's a few hundred thousand auctions, and I'll buy where the selection is same. Sure!
I think that the PTB at eBay have a damned good understanding of what eBay is, and what it must do to protect and serve its most precious asset.
eBay is an historical mechanism with unstoppable momentum.
eBay will THRIVE even when there are 1500 other online auction venues, not just the 1400+, currently.
posted on September 8, 2000 12:01:30 PM
toyranch says, "In the Middle Ages, the Social/Cultural was on top, and it was supported by the political/religious."
~ ~ ~ ~
I refer you to any history of The Church.
Although feudalism, when practiced with the best capabilities and intention of noblesse oblige, did provide certain benefits for the peasants and serfs, there is simply no way that most historians would ever posit that social/cultural forces were either positive or at the forefront during mediaeval times. (Of course, in comparison to the Dark Ages, we are talking Nirvana - but that's simply not a valid comparison, simply too foregone a conclusion to bother with.)
In many regards, the history of Medieval Europe is simply the history of The Church, which even to this day must regard that historical period with fond remembrance of its heyday when it had complete and TOTAL CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING, PARTICULARLY THE FLOW OF INFORMATION.
posted on September 8, 2000 12:12:47 PM
toyranch continued, "People lived in their homes, had strong families, and this was supported by the church (which was very powerful) and kingdoms, etc."
~ ~ ~
There are several "pop" history works published during the 1990s which contend that we have a very werry erroneously idealistic viewpoint of FAMILY in history.
posted on September 8, 2000 12:23:17 PM
OK, if ebaY doesn't have to make us successful in order to make money, then how are they going to make it? If we are not successful, we will not list items for sale, we will not buy anything if we are not successful buyers, and all they have left is a building full of employees and half-working computer equipment.
posted on September 8, 2000 12:28:34 PM
YEP! Those of us that don't spend every waking moment watching to see who has bid on our auctions find time to do research like this. LOL
posted on September 8, 2000 12:34:59 PM
Ros says, "I am going to do whatever it is I can do to make the OAI and online trading in general for all the individual sellers and buyers a social construct that continues through my lifetime at least - and hopefully into the future."
~ ~ ~
Have no worries, eBay is unstoppable, and microbusiness is not gonna disappear anytime soon.
Now, if you mean something different, that you have the reformer's zeal, well fine --- but, see, because you do NOT share freely on the messageboards, but instead have a PRIVATE E-LIST, your reformism, if it may be called that, has absolutely no credibility with me.
I will NOT join Tag Notes, and frankly am tired of seeing quasi-ads for it scattered through posts here and there over years.
Rosalyn, I believe that you are much more interested with the subscription rate to your newsletter, and enamoured with attention from the national press, than you are AT ALL interested in the very possible NEGATIVE FINANCIAL IMPACT upon sellers & their families & their CHILDREN, if you are actually at all successful in this monomoniacal wish of yours to get sellers to desert eBay.
First, were a million sellers to leave eBay -- it wouldn't matter.
eBay is gonna succeed.
But the potential consequences for financial strain or even disastor to the liddle widdle itsy bitsy micro-businesses to be propagandized to, that it is their July 4th PATRIOTIC DUTY to leave eBay is simply to me, in my Nsho, appalling.
posted on September 8, 2000 12:38:17 PMguyuellas: LOL!! Fact is, that I am involved in a detailed cataloguing of a buncha stuff, and these posts represent NO research, whatsoever, simply a BREAK, some rest and relaxation from a heavy duty onerous mental chore.
posted on September 8, 2000 01:12:20 PM
toyranch quizzes me, "OK, if ebaY doesn't have to make us successful in order to make money, then how are they going to make it? If we are not successful, we will not list items for sale, we will not buy anything if we are not successful buyers, and all they have left is a building full of employees and half-working computer equipment."
~ ~ ~
First off, deliberations such as the ones you pose, ones which have confused and perplexed some members of the online auction community off and on FOR YEARS...... well, you will have to let me do a bit of ACTUAL research on this, but I have been mulling this over for quite some time, and I have a glimmer of a hunch that many issues may (????) (i dunno yet,) become clearer for the participants in this historical event, were we to NOT read business books, but rather get a complete fully grounded understanding of the LIBERTARIAN Creed.
I used to think that journalists from Silly Valley were trying to be coy and cute, or even engaging in pop-idolatry, by depicting Mr. Omidyar as ..... zenlike, but now I'm not so sure.
However, it MAY (??) be the case that we cannot understand what is occuring because only few of us would have ANY experience with any authentically TRUE libertarian enterprise.
I am more of a proponent of full-fledged anarchy - albeitly run under a strict structure, (i.e., sham "anarchy", so this capability of Pierre's to permit perfect Freedom, has nutzily grated on my nerves for quite some time -- however, unlike the journalists I do NOT view eBay or Pierre as Zenlike, much less pop-zenlike, but I must conceed that both eBay and its founder are perplexing to many, many people.
````````````
"OK, if ebaY doesn't have to make us successfulin order to make money,then how are they going to make it?
They already are showing great success in making it. However, eBay does NOT have to make us successful. As their most precious asset, however, many many many individuals will conduct successful micro-eBiz on eBay.
Plenty already are.
Very $ucce$$ful.
Succeeding in the years to come will require a seemingly infinite capacity to tolerate paradox, the ability to change FASTER than change, and becoming comfortably familiar with a state of organized CHAOS.
posted on September 8, 2000 01:39:24 PM
I have to get back to my REAL work, but it occurs to me too, that NONE of us have ever experienced a TRUE free market, firsthand - and perhaps only a libertarian coulda made this possible. In other words, perhaps eBay is the FIRST form of unfettered PURE Capitalism that any of us have been exposed to, as opposed to a "libertarian" enterprise.
However, toyranch, in so far as (what I presume? to be) your primary focus - the plight of the microbusiness...
I assure you that eBay is very well aware that the liddle widdle itsy bitsy sellers are their most precious asset, their most valuable commodity. And eBay has established a world class venue for same.
I am positive that they are also aware that plenty of these microbusinesses are making money hand over fist on eBay. Already.
eBay is the ONLY online auction house with the brains and money to devote R&D into any of this.
The rest of the venues simply are in it, cuz they droooooooL over the prospect of eBay profit margins. Many sellers are already listing at these secondary marginal sites, where they buy and sell from other sellers.
But the CUSTOMER BASE, the true bidder population is at eBay, and NOTHING will change this. Move a million auctions offa eBay, move a couple million off -- it will have NO impact, whatsoever, on the success of eBay, which already at the close of the second millenium is the only FULL FLEDGED 21st Century Business on earth.
spreaders.