posted on April 24, 2005 04:46:49 AM new
Updated: 07:24 AM EDT
Critics Charge Frist Is Mingling Religion, Politics
By HILARY ROXE, AP
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist agrees to be part of telecast with evangelical Protestants
WASHINGTON (April 23) - It may seem like Sen. Bill Frist has found religion in recent weeks. At least, that's what critics say about the Senate majority leader's recent alignment with social conservative groups on high-profile issues.
Their charge is that Frist is playing to religious groups to gather support for political issues - and potentially for a future presidential race.
The Tennessee Republican took some heat when Congress stepped into a legal fight over the life of a brain-damaged Florida woman last month. The critics have grown louder since he agreed to participate in an event on Sunday organized by Christian groups trying to rally churchgoers to support ending the judicial filibuster.
"He seems to be going out of his way to pander to the radical religious right leaders," said Ralph Neas, president of People for the American Way, a liberal group that has worked to block several of President Bush's appointments to the courts. "Many people have commented that it seems to be commensurate with his aspirations to be president of the United States."
Sunday's event, organized by the conservative Family Research Council, will be in a Louisville, Ky., church and broadcast across the country. Fliers for "Justice Sunday" charge the filibuster is "being used against people of faith."
Frist's office says he plans to submit a four-minute videotape with the same Constitution-focused message he has given other groups.
But his participation has raised loud protests. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee said it sent Frist a petition Friday signed by 20,000 people asking him "to abandon such dishonest and irresponsible tactics that politicize faith, abuse power and drown out the voice of ordinary Americans."
The leaders of several nationwide denominations on Friday joined the chorus urging Frist to reconsider his participation in the event. Among them was the Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick, the stated clerk of the Presbyterian Church (USA), Frist's denomination.
Most people said Frist has the right to join Christian groups or ask for their backing on important issues but called the rhetoric surrounding Sunday's event inflammatory.
"His presence is giving credibility to people who have made a stark political issue a litmus test for judging religion," said C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Washington-based Interfaith Alliance and the pastor of a Louisiana church.
Frist is a conservative who has consistently supported the type of issues that rally right-leaning Christian groups. He was a leader of the opposition to gay marriage, and when he laid out an agenda on the first day of the 109th Congress in January, he mentioned "marriage, families and a culture of life that protects human dignity at every stage of development."
A Frist spokesman said the Constitution has been the senator's constant concern during the filibuster fight, and his position on Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman, was "clear and consistent" throughout the debate.
But some say there's been a shift in his focus.
"If you think about Bill Frist since he was majority leader, his strong suit was his intersection of science and medicine ... and his rational good government," said James Hudnut-Beumler, dean of Vanderbilt University's Divinity School and a scholar of American religious history. "I think that's still there, but to lead on a national stage, you have people who press you to come out on other issues and fronts."
Frist has said he will give up his Senate seat when his term ends next year, but he hasn't answered - or discouraged - speculation that he will run for president in 2008.
Luis Lugo, director of the nonpartisan, non-advocacy Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, said religion and religious groups are crucial factors for any candidate, Democrat or Republican.
"Any politician ... who aspires to public office ... has to come to terms with the fact that religious conservatives are a critically important part of the Republican Party," he said.
Tapping into the political force of a religious group, however, can be a divisive process when closely held moral values are at stake. The filibuster debate comes up at a time when the nation is vociferously arguing over whether to trust "activist" judges.
"It's a little bit of a third rail," said Hudnut-Beumler. Frist is "hoping to draw some power from it. Electric trains do draw power from the third rail, but people sometimes do get electrocuted."
Frist belongs to Presbyterian churches in Washington and Tennessee, has taken medical mission trips to Africa and other parts of the world, and is a regular at the National Prayer Breakfast. And even critics say it isn't possible to discern a person's true faith.
But Gaddy said he is concerned about "the transition from religion as a source of values and wisdom, to religion as a strategy for passing legislation or winning an election."
"I don't judge people's motives," he said. "If Sen. Frist sees this as an essential step in launching a presidential campaign, he's more involved in a stumble than a step."
AOL POLL RESULTS BELOW
Should Frist participate in the evangelical telecast?
No 71%
Yes 29%
Do you agree with event fliers that Democrats are "against people of faith?"
No 75%
Yes 25%
Total Votes: 5,571
posted on April 24, 2005 06:49:10 AM new
I would like to see that poll broken down in to how many democrates voted and how many republicans. Also since this is a poll I would suspect that you can vote more than once.
I like the polls where when you vote you can't vote again. That seems the more sensible way to have polls, not the open ended ones.
posted on April 24, 2005 10:18:35 AM new
Libra - I've heard a number of republican talking heads saying this is a very bad idea. Apparently even they believe that the only thing Frist is going to accomplish is killing an chances he might have to make a serious run for nominee in 2008.
While the Christian Right may be a big aspect in getting funding for a republican candidate, attracting moderates is how you get the majority vote for office and this is not a move that will find favor with many moderates.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 24, 2005 11:08:12 AM new
I too think the filibuster should be done away with. The whole concept is stupid. Vote for or against something, but don't just stand there and waste time. Not that they actually can be bothered to REALLY filibuster. But my opinion on this has nothing to do with partisanship or religion. I just think the filibuster should be dropped.
I don't see where filibustering has any special significance for or against religion. This seems like a narrow minded attempt to influence the situation with judicial nominees. If that is the case, then just say so.
That being said, if Frist wants to get in good with the conservative Chrisians, so what?
So far as the topic header, "Republican Frist Is Mingling Religion, Politics" does anyone actually think it is even possible to separate the two? Your religion as as much a part of you as your personality. Yes, you can either choose to show it publicly or keep it private, but it still is going to influence everything you do.
You don't hear Jews or Muslims complaining about mixing politics with religion. Only the atheists complain about this, because they feel left out.
Tell me- if an atheist were elected to some high office, wouldn't you expect his "belief" in atheism to reflect in his politics? Sure it would. So why expect any different from a politician who does believe?
--------------------------------------
Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web! http://www.replaymedia.com
posted on April 24, 2005 11:24:38 AM new
Fenix all I was talking about is the polls conducted that are open ended. Remember the saying they use to use in Chicago. Vote early vote often. (and this was for regular voting, very corrupt in Chicago)
I think when conducting polls one vote per person is the best way to conduct them otherwise they are slanted/one sided.
Since I haven't been reading about Frist I have no comment, but it happens in both parties so how can we condemn one and not the other.
The news media is just trying to make another statement so as to cause controversy.
There is going to be so many candidates both Democrats and Republicans running for president they will all have to do something to make the others look unincreditable (I hope that is a word)
The only one I know for sure that isn't running is Bush and that should make the democrats happy.
BTW the only polls I vote often in are the ones for the Green Bay Packers.
posted on April 24, 2005 11:56:14 AM new"Their charge is that Frist is playing to religious groups to gather support for political issues - and potentially for a future presidential race."
Isn't this the same thing Bush and many republican do? What's the difference? He'll become another one of the many that'll do anything for votes - pretending you're really religious so you'll win over the sheep. Can't these people come up with something a bit more original?
posted on April 24, 2005 12:44:00 PM new
Replay - there is a big difference between your religion affecting you consciennce which influences the way you vote on something and Taking your politics on to a religiously funded program broadcast from a church and using the opportunity to call other politicians that disagree with you as godless and anti-religion.
On the other hand... I think he should do this on a weekly basis... maybe he can host his own show for Christian Broadcast Network. I have a moral objection to this ploy but in terms of political manuevering, I have no objections to Rebulicans manuevering themselves as far the the Christan Right as they are capable of going. Afterall, it's the moderates... the ones that will be turned off by these types of actions, that generally decide elections.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 24, 2005 03:08:51 PM new"... no objections to Rebulicans manuevering themselves as far the the Christan Right as they are capable of going."
That's funny, Fenix!! Just how far right can a person get, I wonder?
posted on April 24, 2005 03:09:48 PM new
KD, Do the same as Kerry Did. I think you have forgotten already. Kerry did that during his run for president. Remember him standing behind the pulpet in a black church giving a speech. So it does happen to both parties. Also every Sunday Bush goes to church, as it is his right to do. But also Kerry did the same. So to blame one party and not the other isn't right. A politician will do anything for votes.
posted on April 24, 2005 03:23:26 PM new
KD, they can get as far right as the democrats can go to the left.
Many people have religion as shown in the last election. Many posters on this board don't.
Religion isn't a bad thing. Believing that there is a supreme being is something many believe in. Believing in life everylasting is something that many have been brought up with. I certainly am one. It is people like Michael Moore that try and tell you different. But that's okay you can believe in what you want and so can the religious people. It doesn't mean they or you are bad. Are the democrats afraid that they won't get any votes if Frist does that. Maybe,but when voting you need to look at facts and find out the platform and if you like a certain persons platform then that is who you vote for. At least that is the way I vote.
posted on April 24, 2005 03:44:47 PM new
Libra - I really doubt that any democrat is in fear of what Frist is doing. Appalled is a better word. Don't you think it is more than a little ironic that a republican leader is using religion as his weapon to attack others that disagree with him?
Come on... You gotta admit, taking out ads and going on church funded television to point fingers and call fellow congressmen and representative godless and anti-religion is really kinda tacky.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Apr 24, 2005 03:45 PM ]
posted on April 24, 2005 03:50:48 PM new
Yes I admit it might be tacky but don't you think when John Kerry went to church and took communion that was tacky also. After he was told he couldn't so then he went and found a priest that would do it.
I am just trying to explain that it happens on both sides not just one. Candidates will do anything to get votes. What the american voters have to decide who is the best candidate.
During the next 3 years we are going to see a lot of juggling by the candidates and if someone believes in everything a candidate says they have to be stupid. What needs to happen is to sift out the good from the bad. The newspapers are going to try and sway the votes but I hope that people can sort out the best candidate by themselves.
posted on April 24, 2005 03:56:46 PM new
Libra, I don't think that a person who uses religion for political gain is as into God as they claim. Many see it as spreading the word of God, but I see it as usually being tied in with some form of financial gain/power. Just because a person claims to be religious, doesn't mean they are and there are a lot of people out there who claim they are. In fact, some are so far removed from God that they think nobody else will notice.
Can't the right back up their issues without having to bring "the God card" into everything to justify their actions?
posted on April 24, 2005 04:19:21 PM newMany people have religion as shown in the last election. Many posters on this board don't.
Many posters on this board don't? Not sure where you get your info from, Libra63. I think there are probably quite a few that don't mention religion at all or tout moral values here like others tend to do.
posted on April 24, 2005 04:52:59 PM new
Great post Kiara but I have my own ideas and I say they don't. So we disagree.
KD, didn't John Kerry try and do that? He was getting nowhere with the unplatform he had so he went right to the pulpit.
He went to church every Sunday and made it known to the world. He took comunion when he was told he shouldn't.
"Just because a person claims to be religious, doesn't mean they are and there are a lot of people out there who claim they are" Do you know that for a fact?
"In fact, some are so far removed from God that they think nobody else will notice". Now I don't know any of these candidates personally so I couldn't make a statement like that. Can you? Of course the media can say and do what they want so maybe that is what they want you to believe. All the reporters are looking for is a juicy story.
posted on April 24, 2005 05:11:35 PM newReligious Right
From SourceWatch
The Religious Right is a term used to describe a general coalition of organized conservative political activist groups that use religious (usually Christian) premises and rhetoric. This coalition's political power increased substantially in the United States during the presidency of Ronald Reagan, and it remains a significant force in US politics today.
The term is more commonly used by outsiders than members of this group. It also is used to denote political conservatism, rather than religious or theological conservatism (Many in the Religious Right are also religiously conservative, but the latter does not imply the former.)
Use of common enemy rhetoric to rally support for their cause is common among groups in the religious right, where the common enemies in question include secularists, liberals, homosexuals, and in past years, godless Communists. Similarly some liberal groups use the religious right itself as a common enemy to rally support for their causes.
David Sinclair, editor of the website "The American Religious Right" has described the Religious Right as "Christian political extremists in the US [which] are only a small minority of the population, but [that] are well-organized and wield political power far beyond their numbers."[1] (http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/rright.html) Sinclair also claims that they run the Republican Party, but in recent years it has not always been clear who has been controlling whom. One author of this article saw a voter's guide distributed by the Christian Coalition in the mid-1990s that had more items mentioning Republican party planks than items that mentioned explicitly Christian issues. There are also significant portions of the Republican Party that do not share the religious agenda of the religious right, and the party as a whole has often put its own political power over the agenda of the religious right. For instance, while the religious right is firmly pro-life, pro-choice Republican candidates have been known to get significant support from the national Republican party, arguably more than pro-life Democrat candidates have gotten from the national Democratic party.
posted on April 24, 2005 05:43:46 PM new
Libra, yes Kerry did that and he lost.
And yes, I know for a fact that many people who claim to be religious aren't. The ones that are against abortion but have had them themselves and offer no kind of solution to the growing population of unwanted babies. The ones are for the death penalty because of a need for revenge. The ones who speak out against druggies and prostitutes, while doing drugs and visiting prostitutes. The ones that say they're for peace yet laugh about blowing the heads off the enemy. The ones that classify homosexuals, transvestites, black, hispanics, etc., as second-class citizens. The ones who promote fear as a means of control. The ones that tell the world God is speaking to them and he's saying "go liberate some oil-laden countries. Don't worry about North Korea, India or any killings that take place."
I could list stuff all night Libra. This is the religious right that I see.
posted on April 24, 2005 05:50:29 PM newMany posters on this board don't. (have religion)
I'd really like to know what you base that on Libra. Off hand, I can only think of two or three active posters who might be considered anti-religionists.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on April 24, 2005 06:39:15 PM new
::Yes I admit it might be tacky but don't you think when John Kerry went to church and took communion that was tacky also.::
NO. One person went to church, sat down on the spectator side of the pulpit, listened to the service and took communion which he was never forbidden to do. The church never excommunicated Kerry, there was simply an edict that came down that priests should deny communnion to politicians who support abortion.
::I am just trying to explain that it happens on both sides not just one.::
But you are comparing apples to oranges. One person simply went to church. The other is entering a church for the sole purpose of using it as a platform to point a finger at others, pass judgement and call them godless.
::Candidates will do anything to get votes.::
The ironic thing Libra is he is not so much to get votes but rather to attempt to shame those who he labels as godless into walking away from the constitution and allowing the republicans to pass any judge they want. He is using the church to attempt to affect government and the courts.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 24, 2005 06:42:31 PM new
I wonder if the person who wrote this was able to do it with a straight face.....
Use of common enemy rhetoric to rally support for their cause is common among groups in the religious right, where the common enemies in question include secularists, liberals, homosexuals, and in past years, godless Communists.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 24, 2005 06:49:09 PM new
Okay profe how many active posters are there?
Now remember you said active and not the ones that pop in with little remarks that have nothing to do with the thread. I don't consider those active.
Well KD I think you have given us the example of american people not just the "Religious right" but since you live in Canada are you describing the Canadians?
Go read your statement again and see really how stupid that sounds. It is just a rant and rave and yes you can go on forever if you would like but think of the headache you will have after you type it.
Evidently you didn't read the defination of the religious right. They are few in numbers.
They get the media attention because the media wants the republicans to look stupid. Not all republicans belong to the religious right. They, the media, have an agenda and it was proven in the last election when the media tried it darndest to get ammunition on Bush so Kerry would be elected. Didn't work.
posted on April 24, 2005 07:36:39 PM new
As a American. I would like express my apologies to any Canadian that reads the many comments Libra63 makes to and about Canadians. Believe me Libra's mind set represents a very very small minority in all of America.
We all need to remember the Taliban ran a radical religious right form of government.
I believe when any religious group starts thinking their way is the only way to run our government that thinking becomes very dangerous to our democracy.
posted on April 24, 2005 08:12:19 PM new
Fenix the author of the article is at the top.
Kiara about 1/2 a poster
Prove to me bigpeepa that I
would like you express my apologies to any Canadian that reads the many comments Libra63 makes to and about Canadians.
Your a joke bigpeepa. How many remarks have I made about Canada? Yes we have talked about their national health care, about discount prescriptions and about the physician that comes from Canada once a month to the Mall of america so that seniors can get their drugs cheaper. That I have visited there several times since I only lived a hundred miles from the border and saw how beautiful and how clean their country was. That I was on a camping trip up their. That I have taken a trip to Victoria BC and said how beautiful it was. Talked about the Improvement in the border crossings with the finger print. Yes apologize for that bigpeepa. You seem to have something mixed up. What you need to do is apologize to everyone you insult.
But of course you won't you will just go on ranting and raving like you always do and show us those stupid polls from AOL that mean nothing.
Bigpeepa seems to think that everyone here that doesn't agree with him belongs to the religious right. Well he better get an attitude adjustment.
posted on April 24, 2005 08:18:49 PM new
Sorry fenix I thought I had put the website address on it and plum forgot. I had it saved and I had to answer a question from an ebay member and wiped out the webpage address.
posted on April 24, 2005 08:29:07 PM newKiara about 1/2 a poster
So what will make me an active poster, Libra63?
Let's see....... I have 6517 posts so with your logic I guess I should step things up a bit until I double my speed and reach 13034 posts. lol
Or maybe I won't be 1/2 a poster if I start to worship Bushgod and tout my moral values all over the board when I post? Will that make me whole and active?
BTW, I agree with what Kraft said up above and I don't think it's stupid at all nor do I consider it a rant and rave.
posted on April 24, 2005 08:38:16 PM new
That's divided by two different areas Kiara. The eBay outlook and this round table. You can be 2 posters if you like I honestly don't care. You pick how many you want to be then tell profe and he can add that to the total. How does that sound...
Go ahead and believe what you want I honestly don't care. If you think that about republicans then go ahead. Remember not all repubicans belong to the religious right. If you read the article then you would know that.
I post what I think and I say what I think. then bigpeepa comes in and apologizes to the Canadians what I post. Well of all the nerve of him. doesn't he know by now I have a voice of my own. That needed no apology as I didn't say anything derogatory.
