posted on April 29, 2005 05:45:07 AM new
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - The state's social services agency was granted a court order to block an abortion for a pregnant 13-year-old girl living in a state shelter, prompting an emergency appeal Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union.
The ACLU in its appeal on the girl's behalf cited Florida statutes that protect a minor's decision to decide on an abortion.
"No (Department of Children & Families) regulation or state law can override a constitutional right as recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court," said Howard Simon, the organization's executive director for Florida.
"But putting aside the legalisms, forcing a 13-year-old to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against her wishes not only is illegal and unconstitutional, it's cruel."
The girl learned she was pregnant two weeks ago and planned to have an abortion Tuesday. Her caseworker arranged for transportation and help. But the state Department of Children & Families asked a Palm Beach County juvenile judge Tuesday morning to block the procedure.
The state agency argued the 13 1/2-week pregnant girl - described as L.G. in court documents - is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision, according to the ACLU appeal.
A judge granted a temporary injunction and ordered a psychological evaluation.
There was no immediate indication when a decision on the appeal would be made.
In 2003, the Florida Supreme Court struck down a law requiring parents to be notified if their minor daughters seek an abortion. Florida's high court also cited privacy rights in 1989 when it tossed out a law that would have required parental consent for a minor's abortion.
But DCF spokeswoman Marilyn Munoz said state law prohibits the department from consenting to an abortion for a minor in any instance. "It's not our decision. We stand in different shoes. We're held to a higher accountability," Munoz said.
She declined to comment specifically on L.G.'s case; no details on the girl's parents or family history were available.
Gov. Jeb Bush and Florida lawmakers have tried for years to tighten state laws on abortion.
After the Florida Supreme Court struck down the 1999 parental notice law, lawmakers voted last year to change the constitution to make such a law possible.
Voters approved the constitutional amendment in November and lawmakers currently are pushing legislation to require physicians to notify at least one parent before performing an abortion on a girl under age 18. Another bill would tighten regulation of clinics that perform second-trimester abortions.
posted on April 29, 2005 07:57:30 AM newWhat's up with Florida lately?
It's a left-wing conspircy, I tell ya. They're all out to get Governer Bush. The media will, and are, using any and all means at their disposal in drumming up negative accusations about anything and everything happening in his state - only to begin discrediting him in his potential run for the WH in 2008.
[sound familiar? ]
------
Seriously though, dblfugger, I've wondered the same thing myself - what in the heck is going on in Florida? With much news being reported from the State recently about child abductions, deaths and everything else, I too have become aware of how much Florida is in the news recently.
As far as this subject goes....I've always been totally against allowing any minor to have abortions without parental consent. To me it's just one more way the 'state' takes away parental rights and responsibilities.
In this case....the 'state' is held to a higher degree of accountability...it's the same with adoptions. The hopeful parents are held to a much higher standard than are 'un-regulated' just pop-them-out parents.
Really can't play today....I'm off to the airport soon to retrieve my CA friend....and it's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. Have fun.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on April 29, 2005 08:24:14 AM new
Linda, I dont know whats more traumatic for a 13yearold - an abortion or to be forced to carry a child to term when youre homeless and have nobody and nothing?
posted on April 29, 2005 08:42:36 AM new
I understand what you're saying, dbl, and we don't know all the circumstances of the whole story. But 13 years old is too young to be making the decision herself. As in all underaged dependents, of the state or their own parents....an adult makes the decisions or them on everything - hopefully to what's in their best interests. To me, a pregnancy is no different.
She's not homeless....she's in the states care being taken care of. [for what that's worth.]
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on April 29, 2005 08:58:58 AM new
Well Linda, I have to wonder here.
Was she raped? Did she have a clue about what she was doing when she had sex? Who is the father-do the know?
And now if the "State" who is her legal guardian, says she shouldnt have an abortion where does that come in line with Florida's and Federal abortion laws/rights as they currently stand? (I dont know what they are in Florida.) And then, will she be forced to give the child up for adoption(by the state)- or will her child consequently become a ward of the state too?
posted on April 29, 2005 09:08:27 AM new
Like I said, I really do understand what you're saying but we don't know the answer to all your questions, and more.
The evaluation will tell them a lot. Florida cps can't be expected to go against their own state laws nor their own policies....someone else will have to make this decision.
But we must remember that the article didn't say her parents had either given up or had their 'rights' taken away. Sometimes the state is just a temp. custodian for the child. We don't know if the state took custody BECAUSE here parents couldn't control her or what. If she was removed from her home BECAUSE of HER behavior....her parent(s) could still want to have a say in this decision making process.
And I guess having worked in a situation where an under-aged girl died from a complication of having an abortion, probably has also reinforced my position on parental notification. Parents aren't too happy to be called on the phone and told their daughter just died from an abortion they knew nothing about.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on April 29, 2005 09:18:13 AM newDid she have a clue about what she was doing when she had sex?
At 13 and in this day and age....I'd place my bet that she knew a LOT about what she was doing - if she wasn't forced.
Heck...I matured early, both physically and emotionally, and started dating at age 12. My mother had long since warned me on what the consequences of having sex could do to my future. And while I understand everyone didn't live my life....here we are 40 some years later, with all the birthcontrol....sexual education all these years.....yep....odds are she knew all about it.
posted on April 29, 2005 09:19:07 AM new
linda:Really can't play today....I'm off to the airport soon to retrieve my CA friend....and it's a 2 1/2 hour drive from here. Have fun.
OMG...this is the friend that is planning to stay with you for a while isn't it...
Quick send me your address linda...I have a great welcoming gift I'd like to send to your friend...a pair of super duper ear plugs!
Have Fun!
posted on April 29, 2005 10:33:03 AM new
Guess bushy's abstinence plans don't work too well.
And, of course, we have the "compassionate conservative" who says "MAKE HER HAVE IT, SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS DOING! MAKE HER PAY FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE FOR A STUPID MISTAKE MADE AT 13 !
But then if you hate children(she IS a child) that WOULD be your thoughts.
Ya, and maybe daddy or Uncle bernie knew what they were doing when they raped her.
Abortions done at clinics are SAFE!
Pick out any operation ever performed and you can find at least ONE person who died from it. People have died from complications from KNEE SURGERY!
It's only when abortions are outlawed that only rich women will be able to have safe abortions(just what the Republicans want).
posted on April 29, 2005 11:33:48 AM new
There were far more deaths in back alley illegal abortion clinics then there have been since it was legalized. Make it illegal again, and the deaths will rise exponentially.
posted on April 29, 2005 12:27:25 PM new
As long as the people who want her to carry the baby to term will support them both financially and emotionally for 18 years, I have no problem with it.
posted on April 29, 2005 12:37:04 PM new
Florida judge who blocked 13-year-old's abortion blasts child
LAST UPDATE: 4/29/2005 8:41:34 AM
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - A judge who blocked an abortion for a 13-year-old living in a state shelter has blasted Florida's social services agency.
The judge said it would be an "understatement" to say he's angry after learning the girl had run away at least five times and was gone for a month when she became pregnant.
Juvenile Judge Ronald Alvarez says the Department of Children and Families failed to even notify the court that she was gone so police could try to find her. Alvarez says the state should have done more to help.
The girl learned she was pregnant two weeks ago and planned to have an abortion Tuesday but the D-C-F asked Alvarez to block the procedure. Officials say a state law bars the agency from consenting to any abortion.
The American Civil Liberties Union is appealing, saying Florida law protects a minor's right to decide.
posted on April 29, 2005 12:43:09 PM new
IF "" she knew a LOT about what she was doing ""
she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. IF she knew what having a baby meant to her future life she would NOT have gotten pregnant. She is TOO young to have and raise a child and I'm sure her baby would agree if it knew what was in store for it.
Not everybody is allowed to date at 12 (what kind of mother allows her daughter to date at 12!?!?!...a BAD one). I doubt anyone is emotionally mature at 12. I doubt a twelve-year-old knows the ramifications of giving birth. They can't possibly have the experience (or maybe SOME can) at that age to use good judgement in matters of sex.
OxyMORON:
"""But 13 years old is too young to be making the decision herself. As in all underaged dependents, of the state or their own parents....an adult makes the decisions or them on everything - hopefully to what's in their best interests. To me, a pregnancy is no different."""
Then:
"""...I matured early, both physically and emotionally, and started dating at age 12. My mother had long since warned me on what the consequences of having sex could do to my future. """
posted on April 29, 2005 12:50:23 PM new
Here, the age of 'non parental consent on birth control and abortion is 13. They sent the announcement home with the kids first day of school, along with the other stuff. Now this has been awhile back now.
But they are allowed to give birth control, after morning pill and abortion without notifying parents
I have a problem with that. Though most abortions done in good clinics are safe, it is one thing that MAY not be safe, and have dire consequences later! I would want to know if my teenage daughter was having an abortion! That part I cannot understand at all! When they couldn't give aspirin or tylenol at school, but BC??
I only recently found out that my oldest got the morning after pill when she was a JR in H.S. She tells me now. She reminded me, of one day, when she was throwing up all day, and had a fever.... I remembered and she REFUSED to go to the dr. My kid got very sick off it, and hid it from me, as did the school
Now both daughters think this privacy thing under 18 is BS and would not want to send their children to school that has a policy like that
posted on April 30, 2005 05:28:23 AM new
She should of been allowed to have an abortion and her tubes tied at the same time.
If it was not rape. But we will never find this out.
Right now if she carries, unless the baby is put up for adoption then the state will be responsible. It is funny how some people expect under 18 year olds to be treated as adults (abortion) but not when it comes to crime (death penalty) now that is an oxymoron.
posted on April 30, 2005 06:35:13 AM new
This is a tough one.
I'm neither for or against abortion. I believe there is a time for it and this may just be it.
Does anyone have any other info on this. Where are her parents? Who's the father (a family member?)
I think it would be a crime to have an unwanted baby...any time any where.
posted on April 30, 2005 11:37:47 AM new
How many of you, that don't support abortions, have these unwanted babies living with you? How many do your friends have?
posted on April 30, 2005 03:47:55 PM new
I guess I don't understand your question Kraft
For me, I don't support abortions, with the exception of rape or incest
I would probably be called a hypocrite also, since I had an abortion when I was 20 years old.
That expeirence totally changed my take on abortion. I had my 2 later on, and when pregnant with Elizabeth , my own dr told me it would be best if I aborted, my weight was dangerously low, and I had just given birth 4 months earlier. But I had her, and don't regret either of them.
I do regret, and always will the decision I made when I was 20, it will probably haunt me forever.
posted on April 30, 2005 04:44:07 PM new
I never said she commited a crime and yes it does take two to tango, however it only takes one to say "No" then it becomes a crime.
Children are just that, and should be treated as such in all matters, abortion and crime.
posted on April 30, 2005 05:11:47 PM new
Why then, Ron, did you say she should have her tubes tied?
And let's seperate abortion from crime. Abortion is legal. She , like any other person, should have control over her own body so if she wants an abortion she should have one, not be forced to give birth like a brood mare.
She is, however, underage and that's why even if she said Yes to sex, it's still a crime on the part of the male.
So maybe the male should have his "tubes" tied.
And, you're right, children should be treated as children...not raped and forced to give birth to another child.
Sorry you had an abortion, nearthesea, and that you regret it. However, that is not the case with everyone and this young girl may regret having a baby at 13 for the rest of her life also.
And they can raise children???? Sorry, but 13 years old know and understand a lot more than you are giving them credit for. There are an awful lot of 13 year olds living on the street and surviving. There are also a lot of babies of 13 year olds fighting for survival because they have a mother that never wanted them in the first place. Forcing a tubal ligation is unconstitutional just like forcing vasectomies. Whoa, let's not clip the man. Let's force major surgery on the woman.
Better face the facts, folks. Thirteen year olds are having sex and they are getting pregnant. The state should be handing out birth control instead of body/mind control. Seems most parents would rather walk around with blinders on than face the facts. My niece has been on birth control since age 13. Why? Because her parents knew she was having sex and knew they couldn't stop her. Parents need to discuss this openly with their children. With the threat of AIDS every looming, it could save your child's life.
posted on May 1, 2005 06:19:13 AM new
Cheryl any baby born can be put up for adoption. If Florida would change their archaic adoption policies then many more babies could be adopted.
posted on May 1, 2005 07:59:05 AM new
I don't support abortion nor will I take these babies, that is not the answer. It takes away all responsibility from those who made the baby and those who should be responsible. Parents.
Good parenting seems to be a lost art now days. Instead of making it harder for them to have sex, we make it easier.
posted on May 1, 2005 08:03:13 AM new
Cheryl I noticed how you said that 13 year olds are pretty smart today. Well to me that says then they are smart enough to know that murder is wrong and should be tried as an adult.
Why do we allow these double standards for children?
If they are smart enough to decide to have sex and then have an abortion all without parent intervention, then they are definately smart enough to stand before the judge as an adult.
posted on May 1, 2005 08:36:55 AM new
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