posted on May 11, 2005 08:33:16 PM new
United Airlines heads to court over US union contracts Wed May 11, 5:19 PM ET
CHICAGO (AFP) - A day after United Airlines got permission from a federal bankruptcy judge to hand billions of dollars in retirement obligations over to the government's pension agency, a Chicago court is considering the fate of the carrier's union contracts.
The hearing, which began Wednesday and could run through May 19, comes as the stakes are rising for the US' second largest airline, whose unionized flight attendants, machinists and mechanics are considering strikes or slowdowns.
Two of United's six unions have received authorization from their members to strike, an action that United said would be illegal.
Bill Brandt, CEO of bankruptcy firm Development Specialists Inc., said Tuesday that the threat of a strike is ominous but not a "doomsday issue."
"I know that United's management would want United's employees to believe that it's the death knell of United," he said. "And I know that United's employees would want management to believe they're prepared to do it. I would hope they negotiate."
Standard and Poor's said the deal to terminate the pension plans and hand them over to a government agency will help the airline draw investors.
"The most important immediate benefit of the terminations is that it will help UAL and United attract financing to exit from bankruptcy," wrote S and P credit analyst Philip Baggaley.
A handful of Democratic lawmakers in Washington have sided with the company's flight attendants and mechanics in their bid to stop the airline from terminating the pension plans.
The deal will save the airline hundreds of millions of dollars, but will dramatically lower pension benefits for thousands of employees and retirees.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation originally opposed the move but agreed to assume a 6.6 billion pension shortfall after United offered 1.5 billion in notes and convertible stock from the reorganized company. The PBGC caps annual payouts at 45,600 dollars a year.
The airline's pension plans, which cover 121,500 employees and retirees, had just seven billion dollars in assets to pay 16.8 billion dollars in benefits.
United said the deal resolved "one of the most significant issues remaining in the company's restructuring" and said it would present a one-time cost of 433 million dollars.
The airline also reported a first-quarter net operating loss of 250 million Wednesday due primarily to continuing high fuel costs. This compares with a 211 million dollar operating loss in the first quarter of 2004.
When reorganization costs are accounted for, the airliner's first quarter net loss rises to 1.1 billion dollars, or 9.23 dollars per share.
"In an extremely tough industry environment, we made progress in executing our business plan," Glenn Tilton, United's chairman, CEO and president said in a statement.
"Our revenue plan is also tracking well against the reallocation of capacity to robust international markets, with more improvement to come," he added.
"Progress to reduce costs throughout the system has been substantial and we are pressing ahead to further reduce costs and inefficiencies in all areas of the business."
posted on May 11, 2005 09:59:25 PM new
At this rate, the Bush Admin will finally be able to blow their wad on this one. How many more false alarms will it take for Bush to spend his budget on Homeland Security and be able to ask for more?
Imagine all of these people evacuating the WH, only to find themselves outside as that little airplane dumped some lethal chemical on them. My point being... 4 years and we still are not much more secure than 9/11. My other point, if some "real" terrorists were watching the television, they saw the huge security hole the rest of us saw.
posted on May 11, 2005 11:01:47 PM new
::How you remember those 'tidbits/facts' is beyond me.::
My brain is a plethora of seemingly useless knowledge. I think it works in a similar fashion to language tapes playing in your room while you sleep. Just because you are not concentrating on something does not mean that you do not hear and absorb it. As for how I remembered that one, i was actually cleaning my place when they announced the news and there was something about it that I found humorous about it so it stuck...
Note of Irony ...Nancy Reagan has been in town for both of these events.
As far as government bail outs... I think it is one thing when a corp goes to hell based on it's own stupidity but when a it is pushed over the edge by an event that is beyond their control (9-11, big immediate financial loss followed by big long term loss) I don't have a problem with the government propping up an industry until it can get it's feet back on the ground. Of course there would not be so much need for a "bail-out" had they granted the loan guarantees that they denied a few years ago which would have allowed them to get out from under high interest debts and restructure remaining ones at more favorable terms.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 11, 2005 11:04 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 05:34:00 AM new
dblfugger9, all the America workers cuts I listed has been greatly accelerated in the last 4 or 5 years. I know you BUSH supporters don't like to face reality about your failed leaders.
Now BUSH and company want a free trade agreement with Central America so the American worker can lose more jobs and or take more pay and benefits cuts.
How many American workers are without health insurance now while working everyday.
bdlfugger9, Simply put you or no one else can defend your failed leaders on the American Worker issue.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:17:24 AM newHow many American workers are without health insurance now while working everyday
So this is Bush's fault? Aren't corporations responsible for health insurance? Is it bush's fault that the health industry has finally caught up with poor wages. Finally nurses are making a living wage. Not like in the 90's.
You can talk about failed leaders all the time bigpeepa but remember there is a congress that has to pass the bills.
Do you consider Bill Clinton a failed leader?
Wasn't he the one who promised national health care. Well, where is it? Explain that to me. He gave the job to Hillary and she failed also.
BTW I asked you a couple of questions in the group hug thread. How come you haven't answered them yet?
posted on May 12, 2005 07:47:56 AM new
cause old bigpolepa is the typical democrat.
whiney,sleezy,driveling,snotnosed,moaning,complaining,panyass's
who want everything for nothing.Ya know last fall after the election,you said you had no more use for this board.I didnt know you then,so I
just figured the old fart couldnt deal with George W being elected and went out in the backyard and hung himself by the old oak tree.However 5 months later you reappear and Ive come to the conclusion you were just crying in your beer and wasting a lot kleenex tissues in the process.Now the crying is over,the whinning begins and you've whinned just about everything on the planet.Could ya change the pace a little and bring in some cheese with that WHINE?? Yea I know the place sucks,but what are ya gonna do?? theres no place else to move.I hear ya whinning about jobs-I heard theres some openings in the space station-its steady work it would be perfect for you and us.You would be thousands of miles away from us dirty,dastardly Republicans and we wouldnt have to hear your whining anymore.
You have to realize its in an enclosed enviroment,and you being the typical democrat would probably b*tch and moan about the air quality.Well.....you can do us all a favor and just open a port hole.
btw-bring crow with ya-after the Russians hear her dribble for 15 minutes...they'll know what to do.
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Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
[ edited by classicrock000 on May 12, 2005 08:02 AM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 08:48:59 AM new
""""So this is Bush's fault? Aren't corporations responsible for health insurance? Is it bush's fault that the health industry has finally caught up with poor wages. Finally nurses are making a living wage. Not like in the 90's.
You can talk about failed leaders all the time bigpeepa but remember there is a congress that has to pass the bills. """"
The congress is controlled by the Republicans who get their orders from bush(Rove). Bush and his congress have done nothing to make health care affordable as they support corporate greed. The money goes to the top with no protection for the rights of workers. This may seem "fair" to Repugs but really is a catastrophe for the economy and the average worker.
BTW,Libra, I have asked you many questions YOU haven't answered....why do you feel others have to answer yours??
I'm aslo pleased to see that Repugs are NEVER insulting or call names...."cause old bigpolepa is the typical democrat.
whiney,sleezy,driveling,snotnosed,moaning,complaining,panyass's
who want everything for nothing""
Classic, Bigpeepa told how hard he and his wife worked and he was slammed by some Repugneocons in here so you vicious neocons just want to slam anyone...it's your nature.. I have NEVER heard ANY democrat say they want something for nothing.
However, bush supports corporations with off-shore addresses who PAY NO INCOME TAXES. Isn't that getting something (profits) for nothing (paying no income taxes).????
posted on May 12, 2005 11:01:40 AM new
Crow, Libra,Classic,Linda_K and a few others are so upset that the American people are seeing through their leaders lies both in this White House and republican controlled Congress. Since their lies have become so transparent and don't work any longer all these people have left is to attack the people that expose them.
In the last 4 or 5 years how many multi million dollar bonuses and so called Golden parachutes were taken away for the CEOs. While the vast majority of Americans standard of living has declined?
In the last 4 or 5 years how many other American workers have taken cuts or lost all their money in PRIVATE pension plans?
In the last 4 or 5 years how many American workers have taken cuts in pay or benefits just to keep a job?
In the last 4 or 5 years how many American workers lost a good paying job and were forced to take a job with less pay and benefits.
In the last 4 or 5 years how many American jobs have been outsourced and gone forever.
In the last 4 or 5 years how many million more American workers don't have health insurance.
These are the type of questions more and more Americans by the millions are now asking because of the last 4 or 5 years.
posted on May 12, 2005 11:14:33 AM new
bigpepperchu; youre so hurrah but your not smart!
Standing in line marking time--
Waiting for the welfare dime
’cause they can’t buy a job
The man in the silk suit hurries by
As he catches the poor old ladies’ eyes
Just for fun he says get a job
That’s just the way it is
Some things will never change
That’s just the way it is... But don’t you believe them
They say hey little boy you can’t go
Where the others go
’cause you don’t look like they do
Said hey old man how can you stand
To think that way
Did you really think about it
Before you made the rules
Clear your blinders, see with your brain instead of your ego!
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on May 12, 2005 11:22 AM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 11:26:33 AM new
DB--since they aint gonna do it, did you bring the cheese??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on May 12, 2005 11:30:15 AM new
lol! classic. Seems he rather enjoys having a Bush to blame. ::Shrug:: There's always an excuse if you want one....
posted on May 12, 2005 11:48:18 AM new
Db-it was a real nice day yesterday-in the low 80's.I was out doing yard work in my t-shirt.Right now its 59 degrees-put the sweatshirt back on.Just a block over where all the rich folk live its 83 degress.All these years I used to blame the weatherman.Now after reading these posts I come to the conclusion its a Bush conspiracy-I knew the man was no damn good.
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Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
[ edited by classicrock000 on May 12, 2005 11:49 AM ]
posted on May 12, 2005 12:27:46 PM newcrow, xxxxx,xxxxxxx, Linda_K and a few others are so upset that the American people are seeing through their leaders lies both in this White House and republican controlled Congress.
Just to correct you peepa, ONE MORE TIME, I'm NOT upset about any such thing. TRY speaking for YOURSELF...and let others do the same. NO ONE on your list has said they were upset....so have you taken to LYING now too?
You're a broken record.....where the needle is STUCK in the same groove. Stating the same thing over and over....doesn't make it true. SPEAKING for others is NOT your place to do.
Since their lies have become so transparent and don't work any longer all these people have left is to attack the people that expose them.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 12:44:30 PM newSPEAKING for others is NOT your place to do
Coming from the same person who puts thoughts and motives into our statements and yesterday when I told her to refrain from doing it with mine she threw a temper tantrum and insisted she would keep doing it anyways. Ahhhh....... the irony! Hahahahahaha..........
posted on May 12, 2005 12:56:15 PM new
You CLEARLY stated your OWN motives, kiara....no need for me to do so.
YOU'RE the one with the FALSE alligations....not me.
Now...go play in your sandbox with someone else...I'm not in the mood for your childishness today.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 12:57:11 PM new
When I have a little more time I will find linduh's post where she speaks for everybody.....this is just her tired way of avoiding issues...blaming others for what she does herself..... I got the proof but not the time....will be back.
posted on May 12, 2005 01:24:31 PM new
crowfarm, if I had the time and the inclination, I would post every GD thing you wail about that you DO!! And kiara too.
.
Two queens of hypocrisy always gunning for somebody else.
posted on May 12, 2005 03:44:03 PM new
Of course, if linduh was really the honest, decent woman with the high standards she CLAIMS to be then she would admit that she did use the "we" word in a post.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:00:29 PM new
The L sisters speak with trash,twisted words and lies in their feeble attempts to cover for their failed leaders in this White House and republican controlled Congress.
The only thing the L sisters have now is to attack me and other people on this board that expose them and their failed leaders. Big deal.
The good thing is the majority of Americans don't believe their kind or their kind failed leaders any longer.
A good example is S.S. Bush spent millions and gave speech after speech country wide about his "Idea to Fix" S.S. The more Bush talked the less support he got from the American people.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:44:13 PM new
lol dbl - He thinks it makes him look clever.
----------
The only thing the L sisters have now is to attack me and other people on this board that expose them and their failed leaders[i]. [i]Big deal.
ATTACKING YOU???????
how funny you can be when you try.
Asking/telling you NOT to speak FOR ME...is NOT attacking you....believe it or not. I'm NOT worried about what you said I was...stating so is NOT an attack.
But I sure hope it helps to point out to others just how your mind works....how YOU see things..if THAT is an example of what YOU see as an attack.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 06:52:18 PM new
"""Of course, if linduh was really the honest, decent woman with the high standards she CLAIMS to be then she would admit that she did use the "we" word in a post.
posted on May 12, 2005 06:55:34 PM newin the last 4-5 years
in the last 4-5 years
in the last 4-5 years
Best of the Web Today - May 12, 2005
By JAMES TARANTO
Scenes From the Class Struggle
The other day, Slate's Timothy Noah pondered the question of why "working class" voters don't favor the Democrats. Noah opens with a quote from Thomas Frank's 2004 book, "What's the Matter With Kansas?," then comments (emphasis his):
The working class's refusal to synchronize its politics with its economic interests is one of the enduring puzzles of the present age. Between 1989 and 1997, middle-income families (defined in this instance as the middle 20 percent) saw their share of the nation's wealth fall from 4.8 percent to 4.4 percent. Yet Al Gore lost the white working class by a margin of 17 percentage points, and John Kerry lost it by a margin of 23 percentage points. As the GOP drifts further to the right, and becomes more starkly the party of the wealthy, it is gaining support among the working class.
I have never seen a wholly satisfactory explanation for this trend, which now spans two generations. It's the decline of unions, says Thomas Frank. It's values, says Tom Edsall. It's testosterone, says Arlie Russell Hochschild. Each of these explanations seems plausible up to a point, but even when taken together, their magnitude doesn't seem big enough. Republicans, of course, will argue that it's simply the working man's understanding that the GOP has the better argument, i.e., that the best way to help the working class is to shower the rich with tax breaks. But the Bush administration has been showering the rich with tax breaks for more than four years, and the working class has nothing to show for it.
Let's consider another possibility, then: The working class, or at least a large segment of same, suffers from a psychological disorder.
Noah then considers the hypothesis of a silly 2003 study (which we mocked at the time) claiming that "conservatives"--defined to include Hitler, Mussolini and Reagan--are nuts. Even Noah ends up rejecting this claim, making the whole column a typically pointless digression.
What we wonder is: How come it never occurs to liberals or Democrats that the very terms in which they phrase the question are part of their problem? These, after all, are people who are obsessed with politically correct terminology, from "African-American" to "fetus." Yet somehow it never dawns on them that "working class" is an insult.
Think about it: Would you call a janitor, a secretary or a carpenter "working class" to his face? The term connotes putting someone in his place: Your lot in life is to work. Thinking is for the higher classes. The questions the Democrats ask about the "working class" reflect precisely this contempt: What's the matter with these people? Why don't they understand that we know what's good for them? Why do they worry about silly things like abortion and homosexuality? If they must believe in all that religious mumbo-jumbo, can't they keep it to themselves?
Every time the Democrats lose an election, they make a big show of asking questions like these. Then, the next time they lose an election, they once again wonder why the "working class" has forsaken them. Maybe it's as simple as: because they were listening.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 12, 2005 07:20:33 PM new
Here it is, the proof thast linduh carries the double standard as a badge of honor! On the same page as the following post there is a blurb by her saying" many are on to her game" again speaking for others!
""" Linda_K
posted on May 11, 2005 10:25:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Shadow....the one stuck on my every post.
Even though you THINK....... we.......... all revolve around your posts/thoughts/statements here - and look forward to each word your speak, .........we.......... all don't. """
I knew the "decent" , "honorable" linduh would never admit it so I thought she needed a little reminder.
I think it works in a similar fashion to language tapes playing in your room while you sleep. Just because you are not concentrating on something does not mean that you do not hear and absorb it. As for how I remembered that one, i was actually cleaning my place when they announced the news and there was something about it that I found humorous about it so it stuck...
