posted on September 12, 2000 11:07:41 PM
richierich--I am far from a "power seller" just like having the option of offering my customers the ease of credit card payment. But --will go back to check or Money Order only. Isn't this just the cat's meow? Guess I sorta kinda knew it was going to happen, but paypal is not the only way for my customers to pay! Anyone know what the terms are yet?
posted on September 12, 2000 11:07:50 PM
It did make me smile a quite smile to myself to read "We ask sellers who currently have a Personal Account to play by the rules....We count on your honesty..."
Yeah, that's the kind of realtionship we all want.
Undecided, but leaning towards not taking them any longer. I waited for checks before, I can do it again. And in all honesty, it's not the amount - it's the fact I was lied to. I actually think the rate is a real good one. But, if they lied about this, what else have they lied about - just how secure is all that information they have on each and everyone of us.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:08:05 PM
I am verified already and I got the screen asking to upgrade. I pressed the premier button just to see the next screen what info they might ask for. I pressed that button and BAM!!! I was all signed up with no next button to press to back out. No questions asked.
Snip
posted on September 12, 2000 11:13:22 PM
snip - ME TOO!!! I just logged back in to find out more, hit a button to get more information, expecting to be asked a bunch of questions, and now I'm automatically upgraded to a Premier account!
No questions asked! Just BLAM!!! Upgraded!
Nope, I am NOT AT ALL happy about this!
There was a reason I stopped using BillPoint ... it was costing too dog-gone much. And now this ....
Bad thing is, approximately 40-50% of my customers pay with PayPal. I honestly don't know how many would continue to bid if I stopped taking it.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:17:42 PM
thedewey--been on eBay since March 99---paypal since August 2000. It was only a convenience for my bidders that I signed on with Paypal. I understand that Paypal is a business and must make money---but---it's not going to be mine. Did well before with check or MO--headed that way ---for sure!!!!
posted on September 12, 2000 11:18:34 PM
I'm not upgrading! If they try to force me I'll close both of my accounts with them.
I have a merchant account...i pay 5% for the privledge of using it...but I'll be damned, I will pay it willingly before I let PayPal BULLY me.
We all did just fine before they came alone and I guess we all will do just as fine now if we no longer use them.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:20:09 PM
Well I have a Business Account for our Web Page Business, and a Personal Account, which I use for Ebay. Just tonight I drew out all of my funds for Auctions paid for and will not accept another damn paypal payment until the knife is taken from our throat. As fast as I signed on for a Personal Account and a Business Account, is as fast as I can dump it. Someone said they can survive with checks and money orders and they were right. PayPal pulled the Ultimate Bait and Switch. I will watch this thread and others like it, but each payment made to my PayPal account is going to be withdrawn immediatly, and if they do in fact go through with this, I will revise my Auctions and state...the facts....Where in the heck is that no paypal logo someone made for me? gonna go and hunt it up just in case.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:22:16 PM
hey PPD - if sellers should have business accounts, how come personal accounts have access to the 'auction logos' feature. Hmmm?
posted on September 12, 2000 11:30:31 PMOther companies charge twice as much — a $50 payment with X.com costs $1.20; with Billpoint the cost is $2.34; and Bidpay charges $5.00.
Yes, but with BidPay there's no such thing as chargebacks, and not all Billpoint users are charged $2.34 on a $50 transaction. For high volume sellers it works out to $1.48
posted on September 12, 2000 11:31:53 PM
Just closed my account--it was fast painless and simply--your account is closed---frig you. Well thank you too --paypal. God help any of my bidders that want to use you in the future! Yeech!!!
There has sure been a lot of speculation about our business accounts today! I realize we haven't been clear enough about this new feature. I'd like to take a minute and go through the questions I've seen and hopefully answer them to everyone's satisfaction. Here goes!
Will people be forced to upgrade to business accounts?
No. We do ask business users to upgrade to a business account, but because of the premier features we will be offering business accounts, we believe that businesses will choose to upgrade themselves.
*****
Qby Tomwii): I think the main confusion that exists concerns the urban legend that sprung up overnight regarding the mechanism by which one becomes a "business" customer of PayPal! So, please answer this question: "If I use PayPal (either sending or receiving funds) more than 30 times within any given month, am I INVOLUNTARILY converted into a "business" account?" I think a simple but empathic "NO" answer to this question would reassure many loyal Pay Pal enthusiasts! Thank you!
PayPalPaul: Alright, here goes: "No." I know that was simple, I hope you can feel the empathy.
PayPalPaul:I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. We are NOT forcing anyone to upgrade to our Premier/Business Account. Not at 30 payments or at any other number.
Although it is important for our revenue model that businesses will upgrade to a business account, we believe that we are improving our services to a point where they will WANT to upgrade themselves.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:33:24 PM
Well here comes PayPal cheerleader Tom to again fawn and drool over PayPal!
I am a newbie eBay seller (200 completed auctions since May 185/171POS, 0+0) and I owe AW and PayPal a huge debt of gratitude. These two services enabled a computer & business illiterate like me to be moderately successful.
I upgraded to the Premier account 1 month ago mainly for the phone# -- I've used it 3X, & so far the service has been outstanding! Also, I wanted to support PP: I looked at how I use it -- I SELL and virtually NEVER buy. They have said since they introduced the Premier/Business accounts that if you are a business, you SHOULD upgrade! As a tool and syncophantic lacky of PayPal, I don't think they are being unfair or dishonest by now trying to be more emphatic in asking that you BUSINESSES out there upgrade.
Also, HOPEFULLY the expanded PayPal services will materalize SOON! I know that my international bidders will CHEER when they can use it & so will I! The debit card will be a huge asset!
So, this PayPal lover will stick with them: I'm convinced that they are one of the best internet companies; along with AW, they have EARNED my whole-hearted support!
posted on September 12, 2000 11:33:46 PM
Call me nieve...but...what else can you use a personal account for if not to receive payments for something?
And if you say well a friend can just e-mail you some money for the heck of it.
Well if thats true...why do our customers even have to say their paying for an auction item?
So thats it...
I've got to draw up some new terms.
"You may pay me through PayPal only if you don't specify that its for an auction. And that your a friend GIVING me some money."
posted on September 12, 2000 11:35:47 PM
I sell mostly small items, $3.00 to $4.00, and I have a feedback rating of 460, since I signed up with ebay back in feb 1999. I am far from being a power seller.
When my auctions close, my new listings will NOT include Paypal as an option.
I started a new thread on this with the topic directed to paypal damon.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:41:32 PM
From PayPal's email to users, June 13, 2000, "Important News About Your PayPal Account."
"Premier/Business accounts are also available to individuals who would like to take advantage of the premium features. However, no one will be forced to upgrade to a Business/Premier account. Personal Accounts will remain FREE for individual use!"
(Bolding, amazingly, was by PayPal!).
I don't mind paying a reasonable fee for a good service. I just hate being lied to.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:43:16 PM
thank you krs - at least someone pays attention to me.
you can use paydirect in your ebay auctions. God knows what a knot ebay's virtual panties would get into if it were to become widespread.
-- edited to add that I have gone to the terms in my sumbission template and changed paypal from a link to just text, and changed paydirect from just text to a link, and placed it first among the two. That's not much, but the next step would be to remove paypal entirely.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:44:03 PM
My stats: 2100 total FB / 1488 actual / eBayer since June 1998 / PayPal member since March? 2000 / borderline PowerSeller / most auctions end at $5 or less but I do get a lot of multiple auction winners (my items are all related) / average purchase is $10 or so / just recently stopped taking BillPoint because the fees were killing me on these low-dollar sales.
Am going to do some serious re-evaluating, especially after being auto-upgraded without meaning to!
>>>"this PayPal lover will stick with them: I'm convinced that they are one of the best internet companies; along with AW, they have EARNED my whole-hearted support!"<<<
One of the best internet companies would not lie to their customers.
"PayPalPaul:I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. We are NOT forcing anyone to upgrade to our Premier/Business Account. Not at 30 payments or at any other number."
posted on September 12, 2000 11:57:05 PM
Sorry guys, I really don't understand the "lied to" aspect. I can't get to the page on PayPal's site because I'm verified & have a Premier account. From the copy on this thread it appears that they are again just doing what they have been doing since they introduced the fee-based accounts: trying to get businesses to be honest about being businesses & upgrading to their Business account. It looks like you still have the choice of just saying you aren't a seller!
The way I understood it back in June was that if one sells (mainly) one is a business and one should upgrade. Is this really DISHONEST? I'm not convinced that it is.
posted on September 12, 2000 11:59:21 PM
Thank Goodness I'm Canadian!
PayPal has not been available to Canada. I'm an "unregistered" Powerseller, every month I do over 120 auctions & over $3,000 U.S. sales, and 99% of my payments just work dandy with the old tried-and-true method of snail mailed checks or money orders. I do support BidPay and numerous bidders have used it, but still a minority.
From what I gather from this thread, PayPal is requiring business sellers to disclose operational information about their business -- that alone would ensure I didn't register, simply its none of their business for the sake of processing a credit card transaction!
Anyway, All I'm saying to all of you who are obviously blown away by PayPal's actions here, is don't fret it too much -- if bidders want your items, they will pop their check in the mail to you too, takes a bit longer, but things still work out fine.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:04:54 AM
Hey tom--I'm a seller, albeit small time, on eBay and Yahoo---Paypal wants their pound of flesh---take yours then. That's it! I'm outa there--as of one hour ago. I don't need to deceive, lie, or distort the truth. Didn't think I had so--till your last post and a double glad reason I am out of there! Paypal--get your friggin act together--don't blame sellers for selling and using your service and then saying ----why---your a business---we gotta charge ya. Sheesh-----real life is tough enough---don't need the blarney of on line BS.
It's deceptive for this reason. PayPal started out with only one type of account- the account that they later called a personal account. And they marketed their service most heavily to online auction sellers- virtually all of whom, by PayPal's definition today, are business users.
So PayPal knew full well that the majority of their users were auction sellers. And then they roll out the second tier product, "Business Account," and they disingenuously tell everyone: "Don't worry, if you're a Personal Account holder(remember, that was everybody), we won't force you to upgrade." Knowing full well that the majority of the users were auction sellers. The PayPal equivalent of the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. I think most users were led to believe that they were grandfathered in under the original terms of service, and that only new business users would be required to apply for the business accounts.
Well, now, it appears that their earlier assurances are no longer operative.
It's still a good service, at a good price. I just don't like the deception. If this was part of their business model from the git go (and I have no doubt that it was), they should have been up front about it. The old "float on the money" thing was wearing a bit thin anyway, I guess.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:13:48 AM
I just found this in a JUNE e-mail sent to me.
"Pricing on a Premier/Business Account is only 1.9% on payments received, withNO flat fee. That's less than half of what you'd pay with other payment services.(For instance, Billpoint starts at 3.5% plus $0.35 per transaction.) Plus, seller continue to get a $5 bonus for every referral, and our $5 signup bonus effectively knocks $5 off the price for first-time buyers."
Now their saying....
"You can take advantage of all these premium features for the low cost of 1.9% + 25¢ on payments received; there is no setup fee or monthly maintenance charge."
by Tomwii): I think the main confusion that exists concerns the urban legend that sprung up overnight regarding the mechanism by which one becomes a "business" customer of PayPal! So, please answer this question: "If I use PayPal (either sending or receiving funds) more than 30 times within any given month, am I INVOLUNTARILY converted into a "business" account?" I think a simple but empathic "NO" answer to this question would reassure many loyal Pay Pal enthusiasts! Thank you!