posted on September 13, 2000 12:14:45 AM
magazineguy--all bets were off when they changed the rules and made us sellers look like shirkers. Cripes--we made it before Paypal--we will again. Look back to the original--you as a seller and someone in this sweet world as a buyer and go from there. Shame on Paypal---shame shame!
posted on September 13, 2000 12:20:30 AM
Well, here's something else to consider: we're discussing this @ 2:30--3:30 AM without the benefit of responses from PayPal.
The only complaint I really have with them is that their PR dept REALLY STINKS!
I've benefited greatly from my association with PayPal -- so I'm willing to cut them some slack & give them an opportunity to clarify the "new" rules & to respond.
I've been "screwed" so many times by internet companies, that I may have become numb to nuance! It has been clear in my mind that they requested & expected me to upgrade -- this did not seem to me to be an unreasonable request.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:21:31 AM
The kicker for me was that screen I got too asking me for my business information. No way.
What is of concern here is that this is just the camel's nose. The fee schedule will keep increasing now. "We aren't making enough money - you'll have to give us more." Look for it.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:42:02 AMAAAAAGH!!! I wish I had seen Snip and The Dewey's posts earlier!!!!
I was curious by an early post in this thread about all the info PayPal was asking for during an upgrade. I went to my account & planned to look through the Upgrade process to see just what they were asking for & I planned to backspace out after reading it.
Well, guess what? Yeah, that's right! No screen ever came up asking for anything except that I read their TOS--clicked to see the next screen...and discovered that I am now upgraded!!! I am now stuck with an unverified business account
posted on September 13, 2000 12:48:38 AM
First they tell us that we don't have to upgrade: "no one will be forced to upgrade to a Business/Premier account."
Then they call our honesty into question if we don't upgrade.... hmmmmm.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:51:00 AM
Thats down right SNEAKY doing it that way. Their going to grab a lot of unsuspecting people that way. And how many are even going to know what the heck just happened?
I suppose they will know soon enough when they see all these fees being charged to them.
To me that is hitting below the belt.
I just read on there site that they now have 3 MILLION customers.
I'll bet that will change..and NOT for the better!!
posted on September 13, 2000 12:52:59 AM
It appears that you cannot believe anything the PayPal rep (paypaldamon) says on these boards.
Ebay has pulled some real sh*t deals, but this is the most blantant I have ever seen in all my years on the Internet. And they even put in writing that PayPal would ALWAYS BE FREE
The amount is not a factor to me. It is clear that this was their intent from the outset, and they have lied about it at every turn.
Creditability and Trust are the most precious assets any business has, especially on the Internet. As far as I'm concerned, PayPal has just destroyed the the last remnants that they had.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:56:43 AM
bannicula> The only way I see is to either call PayPal..1-800-836-1859 and have them explain, or call them and cancel the account. Does anyone remember this thread and the conversation I brought up to Paypaldamon a few days back? Here it is...and his side steping answer...The writing was on the wall then...and he avoided the crux of my comment...
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furkidmom
posted on September 6, 2000 07:46:07 PM edit
Hello!
I have been reading the boards, and giving this alot of thought, and somehow I think I missed something here. This is again about Verified accounts and I will apologize in advance if my specific concerns have been answered and I missed it. I have a regular account and a Business Account with Paypal, the Business account being as you say *verified*. Muy concern is with my paypal account and the logo saying...UNVERIFIED making me feel like a dishonest Business Person, which I am not. It is like a stigma to be unverified, and the reason I do not verify with a bank account for my EBAY usage is for a couple of reasons the most important to me is What if I get a bidder that comes out of the sale and even after the item is delivered, uses it, breaks it, dirties it, or has buyers remorse and wants their money back? I should not be at their mercy for any of these things. If they truly have a problem with the product, we should be able to deal on an equal level, and the way I understand a verified account, is that they can request their money back using any reason they want to, and get it, leaving me holding the bag. Is this the way it works? Thanks. *S*
etc. etc.... (skipping farther down to the meat of the thing)
And since PayPal would want this Verification, I am trying to figure out what is in it for them. Wouldn't you think it would be something, or why would they bother with it at all? I mean, to clarify this last statement...we, as buyers and sellers make our bussiness decisions, our TOS, our methods of doing business because it somehow affects the *bottom line*. PayPal should be no different, because they too are a business, correct? Just the same about public servents. They do not all have this overwhelming need to serve mankind. they are in it for some reason...money, prestige, (sp?) perks?
paypaldamon
posted on September 7, 2000 04:35:44 PM
Hi,
The verification process allows us to guarantee the transaction. The protective aspects of the program are better than being unverified.Being verified protects you against losing money on charge backs as
long as you can provide adequate proof of shipping/delivery.
This is nothing but a smoke screen in my estimation to get as many verified people as they can so they already know that you are a business, thus can hold your money in the account hostage until you comply with the new account procedures. MHO
posted on September 13, 2000 01:08:11 AM
I know everyone is upset. I am also. Try this:
1) Log on to Paypal and get the new screen. Don't click any of the three buttons.
2) Log out and then log back in and the previous log on screen is gone and your account scree is there.
3) Withdraw all your money. I did. Then log out.
4) Log on again and the three button screen is gone.
Apparently the three button log on screen is a one shot deal to see how many people they can snag into checking out the accounts. If you don't click any of the three buttons you are ok. If you do you've had it.
I will be responding to as many items as possible, but the one item I would like to point out is:
The service is free and will remain free for person-to-person payments and for those making payments from a personal account to a business account (buyers paying sellers). Our terms of use have stated that those conducting ecommerce need to have a business account. Our fees are credit card processing fees at cost and they are not marked up (typically they range from 3-9% and carry additional fees, specifically with many merchant accounts and we are offering fraud protection to verified users.)
The ability to accept credit cards greatly increases sales and turnaround time.
posted on September 13, 2000 02:15:38 AM
Paypaldamon, what your service will do for a business does NOT seem to be the issue here.. the issue is we were LIED to .. we were told one thing would never happen and another would always remain the same. This does not appear to be the case. In my opinion, it is a clear case of 'bait and switch'. I am wondering if you lied about this, what else are you lying about .. makes me wonder how safe all that information you now feel you need will be.
I will NOT be continuing the use of your service and will inform any customers you ask, that you lied.
posted on September 13, 2000 02:18:52 AM
Hi noteye,
This is not a bait and switch. We are asking sellers that conduct ecommerce to upgrade to a business account. The only thing that has ever been mentioned as free has been the person-to-person payments.
posted on September 13, 2000 02:24:16 AMbunnicula: Now that you're Upgraded, you have access to the 24/7 1-888 phone #!
From my understanding, you are allowed to downgrade once! Give them a ring, &, unless their phones have melted over the past 2 hours, they'll probably tell how to do it!
posted on September 13, 2000 02:27:36 AM
This is not a big tragedy, surely you did not expect to use the sh*t out of them forever, for free? How easy has Paypal made your business? How much quicker were you getting paid for your items? Paypal said long ago that if you were a business you should upgrade, and you should have then. I have had a business account since they brought them out. Everyone loves the convience of Paypal, and everyone loved them as long as Paypal was picking up the fees, but now when they try to get business people to upgrade and pay for the service, everyone gets all bent out of shape? The fees that they get from me are negligble. It is a vast improvement over Screwpoint, and I do not see what there is to complain about. Most of my transactions are in the $10-20 range also, and the small fees they are charging me to accept those payments are not even noticed.
Think about this for a little bit. They tick me off at times also, especially about the debit cards, but I would not do without them. Heather
edited to add: methinks that I will not be able to get into my Paypal account for a few days, 4:30 in the morning here, and traffic is so heavy I cannot get in. Heather
[ edited by hcross on Sep 13, 2000 02:30 AM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 02:32:35 AMtomwiii I am going to get nailed though, you watch . Paypal should give us bonuses for a peacekeeping mission. Heather
posted on September 13, 2000 02:38:10 AM
I think the major problem is that PayPal's PR (which in their case stands for POOR Relations) dept is brain-dead!
OBVIOUSLY they have to charge sellers the modest fees they do! But this turkey of an announcement or clarification or screw-job or whatever ya want to call it is a total SNAFU!
I love PayPal; but please CAN your PR mis-director!
posted on September 13, 2000 02:39:40 AM
Heather, they LIED.
True, their service has made transactions much easier, true the fees are small in comparison.
But, they LIED. They said from the beginning it would 'always be free', then they said we have business accounts - but you will NOT be required to upgrade.. they LIED and I don't trust them.
Sorry, but I see no difference in this than the seller who suddenly decides after the auction that he will charge you $6.00 more to ship that item than the shipping cost stated in his auction, and then it arrives in an envelope with 77 cents postage.
When they began, there were many threads on this board concerning how they made their monies. We were told they made their money from 'the float'.
noteye
P.S. I have thought about it - I don't like being lied to - I do NOT need a service that bad - but you think about just how safe every bit of information they have on you is, especially in light of the fact that they LIED concerning what we all agree is such a nominal fee.
Funny, that, in the time I have used their service I have only had one problem and was fairly content.
posted on September 13, 2000 02:41:00 AMTomwii: thanks. I'll call them tomorrow when I've cooled off a little...
PayPalDamon: That won't wash. PayPal has known from the beginning that the vast majority of its users are hobby or pro sellers (and the people who buy from them) on online auctions. The company marketed itself to such users. Courted them. And I'd be willing to bet that any non-auction involved customers you do have are a mere drop in the bucket compared to the numbers of the auction people. "We are free! Will always be free! You will never have to upgrade Others make you pay, but we don't." Sound familiar?
When I signed up for PayPal last spring, "business" accounts were hardly mentioned--and users were told that having a business account optional if you wanted the bells & whistles that came with it. I didn't and don't. I am very small potatoes on eBay--I am part-time, my items usually sell for less than $20 (often $3-$12), & I run on average less than 30 auctions per week not all of which sell. I try to be as business-like as possible in my auctions, but don't fool myself that I am a real business. I signed up because your company touted itself as a free service--after what I pay to eBay in fees, paying fees to PayPal would leave little for me. Looks like I'll be back soon to checks & MOs only. It was good enough before & should be again.
posted on September 13, 2000 02:42:41 AMAmy I use Billpoint because some people, every few, want to use it, Ebay would have had us all over a barrel if Paypal had not come along when they did. You know, I made about $500 off sign up bonuses, ho much did you make? Think of it this way, take the amount you got in referral bonuses and then look at what Paypal is charging us, it will take a lot of us a long time before we are actually paying anything out of pocket. Lets see as long as they were forking out the dough with the bonuses and paying business persons credit card fees they were a great company? Heather
[ edited by hcross on Sep 13, 2000 02:46 AM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 02:44:15 AMnoteye they did not lie, they said would continue to be free for person to person transactions. Not business transactions. Heather
posted on September 13, 2000 02:48:05 AM
Hi bunnicula,
The beginning stages of the company at launch were wireless in nature with the Palm PDA's. That was the focus. The item grew on eBay out of customer innovation and we adapted the tools to meet their needs on their demand. Nearly every product or feature we have created was the direct result of interaction with the users.
Many are pointing to the negative, but many users would also state that the service has increased sales and offset costs due to the referral bonuses (which are continuing).
Many of the threads I see mention sales increases of 20-80% all at the benefit of not having a merchant account (which have their own fees) or even using other services, which still cost considerably more with less functionality.
. Paypal should give us bonuses for a peacekeeping mission. Heather