posted on September 13, 2000 09:07:19 AM
Some still seem to be of the mistaken impression that this issue has to do with what PayPal chooses to charge.
That is NOT the issue folks, were I to happen on PayPal today, I would most likely gladly pay their fees.
The issue is the REPEATED LIES and MISTRUST.
Personally, I refuse to partner with someone who LIES to me every time they turn around.
They have performed a wonderful BAIT and SWITCH, one that will most likely cost them more than they realized.
As an aside, How many remember how suddenly the 'signup bonus' dropped from $10.00 to $5.00? How sure are you that PayPal will not increase their fees, because they lost so many customers over this, and that you will soon be paying 2.5% or 3.5%. Oh, and now that they have your personal checking account info that allows them to access it at any time - what happens when Mary Sue decides she doesn't want that vase you sold her because the color is not right and reverses the charges - do you think they might go into your account and pull the money from there?
There is no way I will ever TRUST them again. My personal opinion to each and every one of you who seem to be cheering this venture on, is watch your backs. This is not good. This from a fairly trusting guy who can forgive many of the mistakes we make in life. I cannot forgive being LIED to over and over.
PayPal is managed by LIARS. Believe it and watch your backs.
posted on September 13, 2000 09:25:34 AM
Add me to the list of folks who is not making an issue of the fees. I don't care about the fees; they are minor and affordable to me.
What bothers me, obviously, are these bait n' switch deceptive practices. It is just slimey, plain and simple.
Furthermore, why doesn't Paypal *ever* send out email notifications upon making these types of adjustments? How hard can it be to notify your users, via email?
posted on September 13, 2000 09:27:23 AM
I think the question I would ask any internet business, if I were a seller would be, How much time you have been given, to get your ducks in a row & know exactly who your users are & those that are making a profit by using your business, and how long you were given to do this, without court action?.
posted on September 13, 2000 09:29:36 AM
While I can understand PayPal's need to make money to stay in business, the underhanded way in which this was done will, IMO, come back to haunt them big time. References to PP will be removed from anything I list from now on.
I figured they'd put a cap on the number of incoming payments for personal accounts but it looks like one item sold makes you a 'business'. Feh.
posted on September 13, 2000 09:35:43 AM
Here's one more way Pay Pal is getting you guys and I'll bet alot of you don't even know it...
When you log onto your Pay Pal accounts, click on the REFERRALS tab. Scroll to the bottom to the View your REFERRAL LOG link.
I have three referrals in my log that say PENDING, the oldest one is from August 23rd. I never got the $5.00 for these, never even got an email saying I was entitled to (pending) bonuses.
From the FAQs and Refer-a-Friend Terms of Agreement:
"When do I receive my $5 bonus?
You will receive each $5 Referral bonus after your friend COMPLETES VERIFICATION of their account. Receiving bonus rewards depends on HOW QUICKLY your friend registers for a PayPal account and completes the BONUS REQUIREMENTS"
I looked into this further and found out that the person signing up with you as a referral must now VERIFY A BANK ACCOUNT before you'll ever see your "pending" 5 bucks. Buyers have no need to give Pay Pal their bank account numbers. Most are using their credit cards to pay for auctions and note:
"Bonus Period. Confinity reserves the right to discontinue the Bonus for any reason, at any time and for any duration at its sole discretion, and without notice."
I doubt we'll ever see those promised bonuses, except on our PENDING LOGS!
posted on September 13, 2000 09:36:08 AM
Start passing PayPal's fees on to buyers and see how long PayPal stays in business.
I signed up with PayPal last December. "Always free" it promised.
I would have gladly paid a small fee at the time. It would have been cheaper than CCNow, which was all that was available to me at the time.
But PayPal promised "Always free." Then PayPal promised that no one would be forced to switch to a business account.
It's a matter of TRUST, not fees.
I applied for an e-merchant account yesterday. Good timing.
The fees are 2.39% + $0.25. Not that much higher than PayPal and I have pages and pages of terms and conditions so I know what I'm dealing with. If I'm going to have a business, I might as well deal with professionals.
posted on September 13, 2000 10:57:18 AM
well, PPD has not been back. must have been a late night. I imagine they are clustered around a table trying to hash this mess out.
Perhaps capital letters are what is needed here. These folks seem pretty thick.
HEY PAYPAL. WHEN I SIGNED UP THERE WAS NO BUSINESS ACCOUNT, AND I WAS NOT TOLD THAT SELLERS EVEN MIGHT BE EXPECTED TO PAY FEES. WHEN THE BUSINESS ACCOUNTS CAME IN I WAS NOT TOLD THAT IF I SOLD THINGS I HAD TO GET A BUSINESS ACCOUNT. WHEN I SIGNED UP IN JANUARY I WAS TOLD ALWAYS FREE. THIS 'YOU HAVE TO UPGRADE' STUFF IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I AGREED TO, UNDERSTAND? YOU CAN TAKE THAT 'OUR TOS HAS SAID SINCE JUNE' CRAP AND STUFF IT UP YOUR CORPORATE BEHIND.
(I figured something like this would happen when X.com bought paypal. remember folks, we're not really dealing with paypal at all - we're dealing with X.com, whose online payment system competed with paypal and failed. so they bought paypal for the customers and are now looking for weasel ways to milk them.)
HEY X - YOU BITE! - YOU BIT THEN, AND YOU BITE NOW!
Send and receive money online with Yahoo! PayDirect
Yahoo! PayDirect is a service that lets you send or receive money online from an account you fund with your credit card or checking account. When you sign up for Yahoo! PayDirect, you save time because you don't have to mail a check or wait for a check to arrive to complete your auction.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:04:29 AM
Lets See... this is simple to me
To be able to do in the past what Paypal now does for me now
1. Sent Credit Card Processing Bank $275.00 "processing fee"
plus they wanted to know more about me than you can shake a stick at
2. Spent $1200.00 plus what ever the tax's was for Trans330 terminal plus some other goodies ( had to have it replaced last year for $175.00 as the dang thingy broke )
3, Monthly processing fee is $12.95 regarless if I ever run one lousy credit card
4. .28 cents per transactions
5. 2.5 % for Visa & MC, 2% for Discover and a whopping 3.75% for Amex ( boy we sure dont encourage amex )
This is just to run the very first credit card, which sucks to high heaven but I have to have it as that is what customers demand
This doesnt even include all the folks you have to recontact as their first credit card was decined for $12.95, then there is the spouse's ( both men and women ) who want whatever it is sent to another address so that husband/wife wont know that they are using the credit card again
So. you bet I will pay palpal their pittance, I would love it if I could just rely on them completly then I could get rid of the monthly processing fee, sell equipment, and best of all - not have to deal with some of these buyers out there who cant even pay a $12.95 on the "visa" gotta go to 1 of the other 8 credit cards in their wallet
posted on September 13, 2000 11:04:58 AM
FIRST THEY MAKE U "VERIFIED". THEN THEY SAY SIGN UP FOR BUSINESS OR ELSE! I am so upset! I just called them the other day with a question and told them how happy and thankful i was for the great service and support. Got a thank u email fro mthem yesterday. PAYPAL I TAKE IT BACK!
Good thing i came here to find out the scoop before clicking the business or premier button. I am going to sit on this for a few days. Will advise auction winners of my 9/17 bacth NOT to pay via PayPal until further notice. I will offer payplace and ecount.com. See what happens. I feel cheated and it is not a very nice feeling.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:05:06 AM
The only reply Damon seems to be capable of is this:
"Person-to-person accounts will remain free. Businesses need to upgrade."
Notice how he refuses to clarify the definition of a business.
On PayPal's threat page, they said that anyone who sells on-line has to upgrade.
What I would like PayPalDamon to answer is this: Who is PayPal to tell me that I am a business? I am most certainly NOT a business. Yes, I sell some things on eBay. That does not make me a business.
Here you go PPDamon... YES or NO: If I have sold more than one item on eBay in the past year, does that mean I am a business and now must upgrade my account?
"My possessions are causing me suspicion." - Neil Finn
posted on September 13, 2000 11:08:03 AM
Well, my "business" on Ebay is mostly a hobby. I do it for fun and not really for profit. My auctions usually range from $8.00 to $20.00 USD. Between listing fees, final value fees and now paypal fees it is not worth it for me to deal on Ebay anymore...
posted on September 13, 2000 11:11:16 AM
Are we being jerked around?
>>"The fees are the credit card transaction items at cost. We are not marking up the transaction costs like other services can and our hopes are to make money off of the float, but this requires a substantial amount of volume."<<
The following examples are not credit card transactions!
Bank Account payments 1.9%
PayPal Balance payments 1.9%
posted on September 13, 2000 11:13:06 AM
Can anyone tell me why I can't find the upgrade message anywhere on my account? My account is verified. Does this mean that only accounts that aren't verified are getting the message to upgrade?
posted on September 13, 2000 11:18:55 AMfeistyone: Good question, and one which I was wondering about myself. If the new fees are to cover the costs involved in accepting credit card payments, why is PayPal also charging sellers for payments from bank accounts and directly from other users' PayPal accounts?
Or, to put it another way, what does God need with a starship?
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on September 13, 2000 11:32:46 AM
I realize this isn't happy news for most of you but have some of the smaller sellers considered offering PayPal (or heck, even BillPoint) only for sales over a certain level?
I did this when the only thing out there was CCNow with their whopping (don't you hate it when fees whop?) 9%. I only took credit cards when the sales amount exceeded $25.
This way, you can still have the option of having PayPal but restrict the places it can be used.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:34:12 AM
OAUA will be talking with PayPal later this afternoon. A couple questions:
1. Do most folks feel that since the initial offers made by PayPal to auction sellers(always free, no forced upgrades), that at this point PayPal should GRANDFATHER it's existing users in under the origiinal terms and conditions? (read: Free personal account OK for auction sales).
2. If PayPal had instead waited until they had completed the addition of more features to their Premium/Business accounts (Web sales, international sales, etc), would most folks have voluntarily upgraded for the increased benefit of these services?
Personally, if they had just waited and included the international payments into their Business account, I would have upgraded, as a third of my sales are now non-US buyers.
So, what do you think of this as a reasonable solution: Grandfather existing users, and encourage voluntary upgrades via additional functionality????
posted on September 13, 2000 11:37:45 AM
Not only will we not Boycott Paypal, but will end up dropping their "competition" the buyers do not - will not use them includng us
this may hurt some of your feelings ( not ), but if you do not accept my payment method then we will just pass on your auctions, there is a kazillion auctions going without bids selling exactly the same thing as you who will accept my payment choice and sellers if you think that i am in the minority on this as a BUYER you might be in for a rude awakning
Please note this is not aimed at no one it is just my thoughts
running to the bank to get you a money order days are over with, as you more than likely do not accept credit cards, if you did you would be yelling even louder the Credit card "rules" seem to change on a daily basis, if you wanna find this part up sign up for yourself, it will only cost you about $$1600 to get started just for the "priviledge" of accepting Credit Cards I either accept that as part of my business or dont offer to take all 4 major credit cards just checks and money orders
Lord I wish I could drop my credit card company and do only Paypal but it will never happen not because of me but because of the buyers
