posted on September 13, 2000 11:42:46 AM
Oh Lord no, magazineguy.
These issues should have been discussed and decided upon weeks ago.
As granny used to say "the pigs out of the stye".
These people are LIARs and I personally have no desire to deal with them. I don't want to spend my time running around trying to make sure they aren't lying about other matters. There are way too many issues regarding their business practices that are unresolved.
If they wanted to pay me, I still would never again use their service.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:46:16 AM
The only thing you can do is not use the service. There are a lot of free payment services now - Yahoo PayDirect & PayPlace.com
are 2 that you can use. Everybody should flood paypal with emails letting them know that you will switch. The only way to get their attention is to switch!
posted on September 13, 2000 11:47:32 AMmagazine_guy
I believe that the grandfathering of all accounts opened before this point and the added services like international transactions only available through the upgraded accounts is a good compromise.
However, I would still like an answer to the question of WHY PayPal has the intent to charge on NON-Charge card transactions such as the following:
Bank Account payments 1.9%
PayPal Balance payments 1.9%
What actual charges does PayPal incur on the above listed transactions that they feel they must pass on? And who are those charges coming from?
If OAUA could get an answer about that, I would be very appreciative. Thanks!
posted on September 13, 2000 11:48:44 AM
does anyone here know how to ad a link to paydirect to ones auctions without having to enter a dollar amount? it is stupid.. I do not get it?
posted on September 13, 2000 11:50:58 AM
Too bad PayPal didn't think of that first, Magazine_guy.
My plan was to upgrade when PayPal institutes its shopping cart & use it on my web site.
But yesterday, I got tired of waiting & applied for an e-merchant account.
The fees are less than a half-point higher than PayPal's and I really, really need that shopping cart.
Maybe your plan will help others, though. IF you can get PayPal to agree to it.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:52:52 AM
The difference between Paypal and any merchant account, dpent, isn't just the fees.
With a merchant account:
You KNEW before you signed up that there'd be fees involved. I can bet none of your merchant accounts every sold themselves to you as "always free" and then surprised you one day with charges.
You KNEW before you signed up that chargebacks were possible, and precisely under what terms they could be made. Not so Paypal.
You aren't (suddenly and with NO notice), after having done business with that account for some time, required to "verify" yourself nor, if you declined such "verification" are your customers treated to a WARNING regarding your "unverified" status and the danger of doing business with you. Not so Paypal.
You aren't subjected to numerous and weekly changes to its Terms of Use , nor are you left in the dark regarding any changes that aremade.
The Terms of Use are not dependent on the interpretation of a company "representative" who, after making repeated assurances that he had checked that his company's logo modification was not contrary to ebay guidelines, came back a day later to say "Hey, I'm only human."
Indeedy, the differences between Paypal and a merchant account are myriad.
posted on September 13, 2000 11:57:04 AM
For those who plan on filing consumer complaints here is the information. You are more than welcome to post this to other threads or boards. PayPal is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission. PayPal is probably regulated by the California Department of Financial Institutions at the state level. And PayPal may be regulated by the Federal Reserve if it is a financial holding company. Complaints are taken seriously both at the state and federal levels. Complaints are also re-reviewed when a company is seeking regulatory approval such as for a new business acquisition or the chartering of a new bank, etc.
Federal Trade Commission
Consumer Response Center
600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington DC 20580
or
1-877-FTC-HELP
or
https://www.ftc.gov/ftc/compaint.htm
AND
Department of Financial Institutions Consumer Information Desk
801 K Street, Suite 2124
Sacramento, CA 95814
1-800-622-0620 or (916) 323-0189
[email protected]
AND
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
Division of Consumer and Community Affairs
20th and C Streets NW, Stop 801
Washington DC 20551
which will most likely forward the compaint to the San Francisco Federal Reserve since PayPal is based in California so e-mail and phone are
[email protected]
(415) 974-2228
posted on September 13, 2000 11:57:42 AM
I posted this in another thread just as it was locked, so have edited a bit and will put in this continuing one:
When PayPal first appeared, I had a few "buyers" noticing I didn't have its logo, bidding on very cheap items, then spamming me with the PayPal- provided smarmy "do you know about this new FREE method yadda yadda." Several of them deadbeated me, even, much to my annoyance, when I took the time to respond: "There's a catch here, I don't know what it is, but I do NOT trust this situation."
Flash blink blink "RATS"
Eventually some buyer just went ahead and "paid" my email despite my never anywhere suggesting I used the service. It looked like they'd have trouble getting a credit for their funds if I told them to buzz off, so I signed up at that point.
Flash blink blink "RATS"
I took the position of withdrawing funds via check mailed to me as amounts added to $100 or so, added a simple text auction statement "I accept Pay Pal" but thankfully have refused to advertise for them and spam my auction viewers with that clickable logo.
Flash blink blink "RATS"
Things actually worked rather smoothly, I think I gained a LOT of sales by not fighting the metastasis of its usage back 6 months ago. My recordkeeping is inconvenienced by having two separate Schedule-C operations now lumped together in these checks I receive, forcing me to keep a scribbled tally running on PayPal amounts for each category. I think I've noticed a real dropoff in PayPal usage the last month or two, also... I bet they first tempted financially irresponsible buyers to tap out their credit cards but now we're back to "normal usage" levels?
FLASH: "RATS RATS"
Personally, I guess I'll watch carefully for the guidelines and whether they scurry away into the shadows on these fees <FLASH: "LIKE RATS"> on seeing the violence of these reactions.... and probably will pay the fees if there's little choice, BUT may add text suggesting to customers that I VASTLY prefer they mail me a check, that I ship same day, and recommend NOT using PayPal due to their attitudes.
What do we expect, anyway: these guys are *bankers*. Laugh of the day: "We planned to be a small person-to-person service so said always free." BWAHHAHHHHAAA HA HA
Second best laugh of the day, quote from the new text on PP's own website: "Don't be fooled by promotional offers from unproven services " NOW they tell me! A year too late!
Flash flash: "LYING RATS LYING RATS"
[ edited by pyth00n on Sep 13, 2000 12:17 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 12:00:40 PM
If Paypal agreed to grandfather in existing accounts, I would be surprised. Why have they been luring us in with free bonuses and promises? Just so they could let us off the hook? Kinda doubt it.
Question: Why didn't Paypal simply start out charging 1.9%, instead of giving away free money?
Answer: Because they couldn't have cornered 90% of the business in just a few months.
Those Paypal guys are geniouses. And they have that special talent of looking a customer straight in the eye and lying to him. As for Damon, the phrase "what did he know and when did he know it" keeps coming to mind.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:00:51 PM
A "Grandfathering" for users prior to a certain date would be an excellent idea. Then later if you wish to accept International payments, etc- you upgrade.
I was one of the first people to sign up for PayPal and used it when others were still saying "I'm not sure I want to risk my money with them". I added their logos to my auctions, encouraged my buyers to take a chance and use their service and now where am I? Feeling screwed by Paypal today.
Yeah, I feel kind of cheated and lied to. The "Free Forever" thing was too good to be true much as the naysayers said when they first opened up for business. I remember getting slightly agitated with a certain poster here who kept saying "THE FEES ARE COMING" every time a PayPal's Great thread opened up in AW.
As I said before..until those of us who helped build PayPal's business are shown some respect - I'm not using them and I will make it blatantly clear to my buyers why I'm not. I can't deal with a company that changes it's TOS every other day. I didn't put my faith in to them just to be kicked in the teeth with lies later on!
posted on September 13, 2000 12:01:45 PM
Steve...for me, it doesn't matter if they grandfather anything in. As I'm sure you know, I have been suspicious of paypal from the beginning. I have been very suspicious of the "verification" as I have not believed the "we will never withdraw funds from your account without explicit permission". I think the denials by Damon of the early promises of "always free" show a pattern of paypal being deceptive and their promises are not worth the paper it is written on.
I don't trust paypal! I don't trust any promise they make. Grandfathering in free accounts is not going to do anything to make me trust paypal.
Everything paypal has done, from the peer pressure (as Radh calls it) to sign up, the sleazy free money giveaway, the original denial of a credit card holders lawful rights to chargeback, the verification question, the lying about the original "always free" promises, the trickery being used to get people to inadvertantly sign up for a fee based account, and a nyriad of other things, have proven to me that paypal is not an ethical business.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:06:33 PMmagazine_guy Also, I would be much happier if they would drop the .25 per transaction flat fee. That .25 can really increase the percentage of the profit of my auction. They HAVE state that they would never charge an additional flat fee....
So if OAUA could get an answer on that as well, I would really appreciate it.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:07:36 PM
How many of you have noticed that almost all of our referals say PENDING. We do not receive the referral if the person does not verify their bank account!
posted on September 13, 2000 12:13:23 PM
JOSIE2306:
You only got paid one of your three promised referral bonuses because only one of the people who used you as a referral registered a bank account with Pay Pal. Despite being told by Pay Pal that it gives them fraud protection if they do so, buyers really don't need to register their bank accounts. Most credit card companies provide good protection.
An awful lotta ebay sellers have pending bonuses in their bonus logs that they don't even know about until they go in there and look and they'll probably never get their bonuses because the buyers won't give their bank info to Pay Pal.
[ edited by bookhopper on Sep 13, 2000 12:14 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2000 12:16:34 PM
bookhopper: Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. Well, I didn't use paypal for the bonuses anyway. Just because my customers loved it. Now I'll do without it or else find another one that's still free.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:17:48 PM
I just called my states Attorney General's office about the PayPal situation. They are sending me a complaint form. I suggest sellers and buyers from all 50 states do this. Always free means Always. Class action suit anybody ?
posted on September 13, 2000 12:23:14 PM
If you are going the complaint route make the complaints against Xcom. It is a bank. Banks have lots of regulations and state and federal regulating agencies.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:24:38 PM
So how many disenchanted sellers are trying to register for Yahoo PayDirect right now? I am, and I can't get in right now...Are they being bombarded by new registrations or what?
posted on September 13, 2000 12:35:29 PM
I completely agree with all of you - we've been had by Paypal. I guess the old saying is true......"if something seems too good to be true, it probably is." I'm sure some of us will consider passing this on to our buyers. I'll have to think about that. Is anyone else going to consider this?
posted on September 13, 2000 12:40:44 PM
Personnal accounts at Paypal are still free. However if your sales in eBay run up to $4000 a month, you can't tell everyone that you are doing this as a hobby. As much as you think this universe if here to provide you with FREE service, so that you can get richer faster (I am sure you will remember all of us here in AW or Paypal when you get rich)...in reality its not.
If you Paypal to send money to your kid brother, then its still free. If you sell 7 items a month in eBay for less than $10, no one cares.
BTW I signed up for Yahoo Direct but its not free indefinitely & its limited. I love to hear the outcry when they start charging. Everybody thinks they run a business when they sell on eBay because it sounds so darn professional but its the paying part that's difficult.
BTW for pete's sake, just accept Money Orders & Checks if that makes you happy.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:43:08 PM
Please do not encourage people to file complaints with state attorney generals; this is not the correct place to file and will most likely lead to a canned response regarding lack of jurisdiction. The proper place to file the complaint is with the Federal Trade Commission, California Department of Financial Institutions, and the Federal Reserve. These complaints are taken seriously. Some of you have legitimately pointed out issues which would be reviewed by complaince experts at these 3 regulatory bodies.
posted on September 13, 2000 12:48:24 PM
" I signed up for Yahoo Direct but its not free indefinitely & its limited. I love to hear the outcry when they start charging."
comic123
No one will have a leg to stand on when Yahoo Direct starts charging. Yahoo Direct has been UPFRONT about the possibility of future charges from the get-go.
It's PayPal that touted "Always Free."
posted on September 13, 2000 12:52:54 PMARRRGGHH!!!!!!!
Well, crap. I've been away from eBay and here for two weeks dealing with a family crisis/tragedy, went into my PayPal account a few minutes ago to initiate a transfer to my bank account and was greeted by the long BS stuff. I came straight here. I read page one and page seven of this thread - can't bring myself to wade through all of it, even though I'm sure our buddy PayPalDamon has lots and lots of justifications for this too. I don't really care. I am pissed.
They hounded at us to verify ourselves yet AGAIN - even tho they had our street address verified, our bank account accepting their ACH deposits, our name, rank and serial number AND our credit card information. I finally bowed to the damn pressure, just so they could stop telling my customers that I was probably a low life thief since I was "unverified", despite my eBay feedback. Less than a month ago I gave in and got verified. Again.
Now - I gotta PAY them on my little sales? I just don't think so. And I will NOT NOT NOT be verified in any other way by PayPal. They know more about me now than OB/GYN, for crying out loud. That will be next. "Are you REALLY female?????"
Time to clear out the account and take down the GD logo. I am NOT AMUSED.
SHAME ON YOU, PAYPAL. This is called BAIT AND SWITCH up here in Wisconsin.
posted on September 13, 2000 01:00:08 PM"...I'm sure our buddy PayPalDamon has lots and lots of justifications for this too."
Actually he hasn't said much of anything. In a few other threads (mostly those now locked and disappearing) he's mentioned that he'll be posting something in the Partner Services Board concerning this matter sometime today. Why not here where most of the concerned audience is?
posted on September 13, 2000 01:09:14 PM
vargas, that's what you think. The day Yahoo Direct starts charging, you will see an outcry of agony because now they actually have to pay for a service.
posted on September 13, 2000 01:39:31 PM
comic123, Re-read the thread - it is NOT about the fact that there are now charges. It is about the fact that PayPal has repeatedly LIED!
They CANNOT be trusted.
I do not mind paying for a service and will willing do so.
I will NOT do business with a company that chooses to LIE to me, in order to get my business.
Especially, when asked point blank how changes within that company will effect me.
Do what you wish.
But, in my professional opinion, you are making an awful mistake to continue to do business with a company that will LIE to you at the drop of a hat.
