posted on September 14, 2000 12:12:46 AM
I, for one, am not happy that a "PR" person is able to post in every forum, rather than being restricted to the partners services forum, or possibly just to post a link back to their own corporate site, where they can disseminate their views under their own aegus.
After all, if a business is supposed to pay it's own way, shouldn't that include Paypal, and other corporations?
posted on September 14, 2000 12:17:15 AM
Hi thewizofoz,
My intent is to not stir the pot and it is to get consumer feedback. This is vital when any change goes into effect and I need to be out to clarify policy or get policy questions answered. Many of the users, sadly, do not realize that I am their advocate out here and that I do take their concerns seriously.Users may not always like the answer, but it is done to help settle outstanding questions.Right now,I am compiling all concerns and trying to get clarification in order to resolve outstanding issues that are not addressed in the notification.
posted on September 14, 2000 12:25:05 AM
Thank you for clarifying that, Paypaldamon. My distrust of your service is no reflection on you or any comments you may have said. I wouldn't say that you lied to me, however, your your employer has lied to me. I am certain you are just doing your job.
-Del
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill
posted on September 14, 2000 12:42:59 AM
Hi thewizofoz,
Obviously I am a little strapped for answering all of the posts, but I did want to make that clear. We, X.com, are out here because we do care about our consumer opinions and we have learned of many ways to make the service better as the direct result of consumer feedback.
While this may not be the best circumstance to come to a forum, I would like to add that very few, if any, companies come and engage in conversations with their customers as policies change. Business is not static and things do change to reflect market conditions,consumer demand,etc.The information gleaned in these forums is invaluable. My choices are to sit back and report or interact and report. I would hope most would choose the latter.
posted on September 14, 2000 02:52:02 AM
Hmmm....well after probably a thousand posts in various threads around AW, don't you have enough consumer feedback yet???
Here, oh Great and Powerful PaypalDamon, let me sum it up for you: You and your company have committed a PR blunder of biblical proportions.
No one cares about or begrudges you your fees.
What we care about is the multiple DECEPTIONS (i.e., lies, mistruths, half-truths) that you and your company have perpetrated upon its users:
Your constant redefinition of what constitutes a "personal" and a "business" account.
Your very misleading reminder page...where people are clicking on a button or link for information and finding themselves suddenly "upgraded". Remember "no one will be forced to upgrade"? I guess not.
Your consistently-changing spin on your adage "Always Free"...which I hope will soon be removed from your website. False advertising is a definite crime in most places.
Your promise for new features that few people really need or want. I have a debit card through my bank. Why would I need one from you if I can simply transfer the money into my account at the bank (not to mention the fact that your parent company, X.com, already offers them)? Why not spend your effort and resources into the few features that people have expressed an interest in, like international payments?
And why do you yourself, PayPalDamon, only come on the message forums to inflame the crowds with "non-answers"? There are serious questions that need answering and every little smiley-face that you leave when responding to some sycophantic praise or leave the text of the same email message again and again merely infuriates the rest of us who see dozens of legitimate questions go without answers. Better to remain silent than to tell us things we already know.
You claim to be "our" advocate, so how about answering some of the many legitimate questions about the service you provide, rather that re-answering the same few, stale questions that you do?
And please don't ask me what questions need to be answered...I think that should be apparent to any but the most brain-dead of those who are visiting these message forums.
----
TRC
[ edited by TheRedCircle on Sep 14, 2000 02:59 AM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 05:00:31 AM
Imabrit -
Well, if you lure people into the restaurant with a sign saying "free food, ALWAYS", and then have the waiter waltz up to the table and slap a bill down saying ...
"Oh, but we mumbled something an hour after you started eating that there might be a charge for the upgraded dancing waiter service, even if we said then that anyone already in the restaurant would not be forced to accept a dancing waiter unless they really really wanted to ... but we're promising SINGING waiters and MULTI-lingual waiters REAL SOON NOW so it's going to be worth it." You'd be really happy, right?
Here's a real life example: Years ago, Sears offered LIFETIME FREE BATTERY REPLACEMENTS (free for the life of the car, or until sold by the original battery purchaser). Well, it began to be a little expensive, because AZ eats batteries fast, AND cars last a long time here.
But they HAVE to keep providing the free batteries to anyone who had acquired one under the terms of the original ADS (someone sued ... Sears tried to weezul out because the sales slips had no "lifetime warranty" wording and they claimed that thewy really meant only ONE replacement, but the plaintiff and his attorney general went to court with the ADS as well as the sales slip. Sears was ordered to make good on their AD for all those who bought a battery during the time the ADS were used to lure customers.
My dad's car got FREE batteries for almost 20 years because of a Sears AD they were forced to back up or face the wrath of the FTC for false advertising.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:00:51 AM
abacaxi -
Your dad paid $ for the first battery, which included in his purchase the guarantee of lifetime replacements.
How much did we pay to join paypal? We didn't purchase the right to free service forever. They may have "lied", but we can always opt out of using their services.
posted on September 14, 2000 07:05:25 AM
I love these folks who cry that paypal took from us. They paid us to open our accounts. They paid us for referrals. They handled our transactions for free for a year. They paid the CC charges. They paid us to verify our accounts. If anyone else wants to "take" more from me this way, I'm prepared to give. And I will give you the right to charge me after a year.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:12:52 AM
yisgood, yup that's a good one What don't you guys understand. If you close over 300 auctions a month or more & then expect Paypal to believe you are not running a business. Then what are you doing, running a charity. BTW I just upgraded to a business account. I close over 400 and sometimes 450 transactions a month & yes I do it not for profit for the benefit of my fellow mankind.
And yes all that $5 referrals is what keeps me in business. Geezz man, here is a company providing you a free service & then you expect to get $5 for every referral. Heck, I don't even count $5 towards my P&L at the end of the month. I use Paypal because my customers demands it. What's good for them, is good for me too. I am perfectly happy accepting checks & MO.
BTW if you guys find a better & cheaper alternative to Paypal, let me know...please. I applaud those who have closed their account with Paypal because they are disgruntled, actions are much better than pathetic whinings.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:19:12 AM
check out exchangepath.com. $10 new account sign up, $5 referral free for the first 20 new referrals (up to $100), free to buyers and sellers (for now). withdraw money to your cc or your bank account. they accept amex and discover as well as visa and mc.
to some annonymous complainers:
Dont put exchangepath in your auctions because when they start charging fees you'll be real busy between changing all your auctions and posting nasty messages here. I'm surprised some of you even have time to run a business. Oh I forgot, you're not a business. You're just a charity running a couple of auctions. Then why were you so upset when Yahoo limited you to 1,000 auctions a month? Oh, that wasn't you, just someone else who happens to use the same ID.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:45:00 AM
gosh, I didn't know PayPal took care of our transactions for free for a year. I thought they made money off the float. not enough, obviously.
I would pay the 1.9% fee and not worry too much about it. It's the additional 25 cents per transaction that does it for me.
It seems that while you can't charge people more for using a credit card, you can charge them less for NOT using one.
An interesting coincidence perhaps, but in today's Los Angeles Times, they review online payment sites, and pick payplace.com. I haven't checked it out, but apparently it is completely free, and even pays a referral bonus.
posted on September 14, 2000 01:20:21 PM
After all the great things said before about PayPal, and then this; everyone complaining, and your still looking for free payment services, and ones that give referal bonuses too?
posted on September 14, 2000 01:26:44 PM
At least ExchangePath.com is honest and upfront with potential users. Its Terms and Conditions clearly state:
"2. For a description of all current fees and charges, see www.ExchangePath.com. ExchangePath reserves the right to change the amount of any fee or charge and to institute new fees or charges at any time, effective upon ExchangePath posting notice thereof."
Unlike PayPal and "ALWAYS FREE" and "No one will be forced to upgrade."
The problem with PayPal isn't the fees.
I had planned to upgrade as soon as the shopping cart system was rolled out.
The problem is that PayPal can't shoot straight with its users.
I've signed on with another shopping cart service.
edited to fix a typo
edited to correct my edit.
[ edited by vargas on Sep 14, 2000 02:41 PM ]
[ edited by vargas on Sep 14, 2000 02:42 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 01:43:37 PM
I agree that it does cost money to run a business and to make a profit, however. When I logged into my paypal account, I could hit three buttons. one to upgrade to business, premier, or that I was not a seller. There were no other options. In order to get into my account to do anything, I had to hit one of these buttons. If Paypal was being on the 'up and up', they would have notified their customers and told them about their changes, not ambush them. Early on when I was given a choice to remain a "free" account or upgrade, I chose to stay "free". I do not require the services that were offered with the other accounts. Knowing myself, I wouldn't use them. I waste enough of my money and this was one area in which I chose not to waste it. I believe the way in which paypal chose to notify/ambush it's clients was unethical. Be honest, tell me up front what your plans are. Don't give me a ultimatum that I need to choose one of two accounts (that I have to pay for) or else leave.
Well, I'm looking around for something else. Perhaps after I get finished sitting in the corner licking my wounds, I will feel differently. However, right now I feel like I was deceived. Paypal pulled a bait and switch and I, for one, do not like it. It has nothing to do with the fees, because frankly, I have not reviewed them. It is the principle of the matter. What comes next? Can you trust them not to get you in the back at a later time? ummmm I don't think so. Sure, they need to make money. It just would have been 100% better if they had taken the time to explain what they were really planning on doing from the very beginning.
posted on September 14, 2000 02:35:24 PM
yisgood, thanks for the info on exchangepath.com. I will check them out. Its important to always look at other oppurtunities. Also a good point, every new site will offer free service...hang on its FREE...for a short period of time to entice new customers. However I can be chasing every new site that offer free service for 6 months.
Its like listing in 2001 auction sites. I can afford to list in more than 3 auction sites. Its time consuming. So in the long run, I will stick to what is proven even though it may cost more. I list in eBay & 1 other site. I pay eBay because that's where the bidders are & I have done well. I know there are new sites out there that offer free..errr FREE service but I know once they get successful they will have to start charging. So what do I do, move on like a cheap nomad looking for freebies...errr FREEbies.
Yeah and I expect my customers to change payment methods every 6 months too. I will check them out but for the short term, I got to stick with Paypal. I just don't get all the hoopla with this Paypal issue, its still free for personnal use for pete's sake.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:13:38 AM
"I understand why people are upset because PayPal's inital claims of "always free" have turned out to be untrue.
Since PayPal is a business, however, I think it's understandable that they've begun to charge for their services. If they don't make money, their company
will fail and vanish. "
Didn't Paypal say that their PROFIT came from people leaving money in their accounts and Paypal would make interest $$ from that?
What don't you guys understand. If you close over 300 auctions a month or more & then expect Paypal to believe you are not running a business. Then what are you doing, running a charity. BTW I just upgraded to a business account. I close over 400 and sometimes 450 transactions a month & yes I do it not for profit for the benefit of my fellow mankind.