posted on September 15, 2000 07:59:23 AM"...and send a letter registered mail to PayPal telling them on no account are they to accept money for any of my auctions."
I'm not sure what a registered letter costs lately, but I think you're wasting your time and money with that. If you sent a registered letter to Abertson Food Stores saying you would no longer accept their money orders and someone sent one what would you do about it? What would you expect them to do about it?
Cancel your account if you don't want to accept PayPal payments. Its a bit ridiculous to expect PayPal (or any financial institution) to prevent a person from mailing you payment, it will just go unclaimed or uncashed.
posted on September 15, 2000 08:55:32 AM
uaru - the problem with just cancelling your
account is that it doesnt seem to matter to
PayPal if you have an account or not for them
to accept payment. I never had an account
with them until I suddenly received the "you've got cash" email because one of my
buyers paid that way. I had no idea they could do that if I wasnt registered with PayPal. I had to then register to get my money! What I guess I should have done is let the buyer know that he would have to find
someway to cancel that payment because I would not accept it. I was trying to be nice though and went ahead and signed up. I have already added a blurb on my new auctions that I will not accept PayPal and I guess if someone insists, I will just lose that sale.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:03:28 AM
I sent an email to the King5 TV consumer fraud ivestigations team. I don't know if they will investigate but it would be fun to watch if they did.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:12:46 AM
huskylover,
If you don't have an account they can't give you the funds, they can offer them but you don't have to claim them. This goes for PayPal, MoneyZap, PayDirect, Ecount, PayPlace, eMoneyMail, PayMe and god knows how many other person to person email payment services. As long as you don't have an account with them the funds are unclaimed the buyer can either cancel them or they will cancel on their own automatically. You can't stop a buyer from trying to send funds via those methods, you can only refuse to claim it. If you don't have an account it goes unclaimed. Save yourself the price of a registered letter, ask others if you doubt me.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:21:46 AM
I'm still watching the message threads regarding PayPal with deeply concerned interest.
I haven't decided what to do yet, but if I have to make my decision today, my decision would be to cancel my Paypal completely.
This decision is based on the bait and switch lie that they suckered us into. I've lost my trust in their honesty. My final decision will be based on what Paypal does to rectify or not rectify the deceit they have attempted to pull on us.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:54:03 PM
Huskylover,
Paypal accepted my money also, even though
I am not a registered member. NO reputable
service will accept funds for non registered
accounts and then send the intended recipiant
a note indicating that you can only retrieve
your money by registering with them.
posted on September 15, 2000 02:24:32 PM
My thougts were (at the time): "If I don't sign up and accept the payment, the buyer will back out of the deal."
This places the seller in an bad situation. It was easier to just sign up than to explain to the buyer that I don't wish to sign up with PayPal and that he or she should write a check or purchase a money order....
posted on September 15, 2000 08:26:34 PM
Emmmm....errr I just don't want this thread to die. Also can someone revive the 'Save the Turtle' thread by debbiedoesdallas. Some thread must just live on forever.
posted on September 15, 2000 09:11:53 PM
Bounce....I just got an email from a buyer saying he tried to PP me a payment, but PP said my email address was for someone no longer a member. I explained the situation to him. He said he'd heard nothing about the fiasco! He said he will reconsider using PP in the future also.
Not skyline8 on eBay.
posted on September 15, 2000 10:35:51 PM
I can't believe its been 3 days and not ONE answer to the MANY, MANY questions asked. Only insults slung at us, in a REPEATED Cut & Paste incoherant DOUBLETALK message from PayPalDemon. I can't believe he thinks we are all that "stupid".
Since they can't be bothered to give us some straight answers to these pressing questions, I just finished emptying my paypal account. No more float or anything else for that matter from me.
In auctions set to launch Sunday the paypal logo promoting there sevices will be replaced with the "NO PAYPAL" logo.
We all managed before them and we can all manage after them. If they think we can't they are sadly mistaken.
I would also like to add that in all likely hood I would probably have upgraded once the international feature was launched...
They really jumped the gun on this one.
posted on September 15, 2000 11:04:35 PM
I have added this to all of my new Auctions and do not carry the PayPal logo. Tomorrow, I start drafting letters to everyone with some kind of a Government title, even the Janitor at the White House Dog Pound. Gotta start somewhere...
My auctions state:
***PLEASE NOTE*** "Due to recent, surprise changes in PayPal account policies and seller fees, we ACCEPT payment through PayPal for the convenience of our customers, but do not encourage it. PayPal has told sellers to pass the costs on to our buyers, and we refuse to do so. Thank You.
Also, if someone beams you money and you do not have an account with PayPal, (happened to me before I signed on) I just wrote to my bidder and stated...please cancel the PayPal transaction as I do not have an account with them. They apologized, canceled the transaction, and sent me a check.
posted on September 15, 2000 11:05:10 PM
I will hopefully draft a letter to the House and Senate banking committees this weekend. Do you think I should post it or would it give PayPal too much of a heads up?
posted on September 15, 2000 11:11:53 PM
Feistyone,
Give it up. They don't care. We have been used and LIED to. They have no desire or intention of correcting this and being HONEST.
The best thing to do, is as others have suggested. Let every one in power that you can write to know what has happened and how we have been treated. Let them know that PayPal has LIED and performed the classic 'BAIT and SWITCH".
WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! Write one letter and then write another, do a 'PayPal' and CUT AND PASTE. Take a break and WRITE ANOTHER.
Write to your Congressman, write to your Senator, WRITE, WRITE, WRITE. Heck, send ole' Pres. GORE a letter. Also, try writing a letter to the editor of the newspaper where PayPal has it's main office. The point is, trying to resolve it here in this forum has proven to be a waste. PAYPAL does NOT care. We do NOT matter to them. We are a bunch of crybabies, seeking a FREE ride on the sweat of their brow.
posted on September 16, 2000 12:05:40 AM
If I'm reading https://paydirect.yahoo.com/PD/ui/us/help/tos.pd?arthas1=Deleted correctly, there's a $1,000 monthly limit?
posted on September 16, 2000 06:50:53 AM
Damon -
"We have always said that PayPal would be free for person-to-person payments. When people started using it for e-commerce" ...
AND WHEN WAS THAT? You mean when I signed up on 2/7/00 that your pages said nothing about using it to RECEIVE payment for auctions? Horsebiskits! PayPal's auction info page defniitely said "FREE TO SELLERS" ... and I believe that "sellers" were definitely engaged in e-commerce back then, as they are now. Nothing has changed, except the Vulture Capitalists are getting twitchy.
Roll out the fricking shopping cart, accepting international payments, and the rest of the stuff you have been promising since February and those nasty 55,000 sellers (1.833% of your supposed 3,000,000 members) your PR hack claimed are running up your costs should see the light and sign up for business.
OR ... do what SMTP servers do and "throttle" the transactions of heavy users who are not business accounts. The more they process, the slower you get. Bill quickly, pay slowly, and maximize your float.
Few hobby and occasional sellers would object to having a brief delay on the money transferred OUT of the PP system. Or even a limit on the number of outbound EFTs and checks.
**********
And this just in from PayPal CS:
I apologize for the misunderstanding, but we are still and always will be a free service. We will be going international, very soon and our debit cards will be released at the same time. Once again I apologize for your misunderstanding
of our letter that was sent to you. It was to show the benefits of our business accounts. But if you want to keep your account free, not a problem because it has and always will be free.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Chris
PayPal Customer Service
PayPal - A Service Of X.com
(PUZZLING ... diferent sigfile from another branch of PayPal:
PayPal Team
PayPal, a free service of X.com)
posted on September 16, 2000 07:08:38 AM
Oh Please people
How can you complain that Paypal is charging? Did you expect a free ride forever? Those that did expect it, posess little to no business smarts at all. I am sure Paypal had no idea how fast they would grow. To meet that growth, they had to endure tremendous costs. They have grown to the next level, and still offer the lowest cost in credit card processing.
Stop complaining. If you think Paypals manditory upgrade is expensive, go use Billpoint, BidPay, or the many others out there that are far more costly. Better yet, try getting your own merchant account. Good luck!
Im sure when Paypal started they felt they could provide their services to sellers for free indefinately. Well times change, businesses grow, and *&!@ happens. Grow with it or get over it, but stop your foot stomping, cry baby ramblings already. The world owes you nothing.
JMHO
[ edited by browse4stuff on Sep 16, 2000 07:09 AM ]
Just a note to give you a “heads up” on use of the “No PayPal” logo:
From the TOU, II.4:
These Logos may not be altered, modified, or changed in any way, or used in a manner that is disparaging to X.com or the PayPal service...
I would hate to see anyone get in trouble as a result of this. It is a crappy situation all around. I’ve drained my account (had about $280 in it) but am leaving it in place for the short term. I will remove all reference to PayPal from my auction payment options and will instead add a logo or statement that states I DO NOT accept PayPal
browse4stuff: states: “How can you complain that Paypal is charging? Did you expect a free ride forever? Those that did expect it, posess little to no business smarts at all.”
Well, thank you for disparaging the “business smarts” of all who find fault with PayPal’s handling of this situation. I always love it when someone lays a big turd on the boards and then justifies it with a “JMHO”.
posted on September 16, 2000 08:35:29 AM
browse4stuff:
I didn't expect a free ride forever. I just expect honesty, forthrightness and above-the-boards business dealings.
PayPal is not capable of that at this point in time.
The "verification" process gave a lot of us pause. Now, I'm not against verification, per se... but I had and continue to have real problems with the way PayPal "verifies."
Giving ANY company access to your checking account goes against the advice of every consumer expert I've heard or read. That's why I declined to "verify" the account into which I deposit my PayPal funds. It was a good move. Look what happened to Julesy.
PayPal started out promising "free for sellers." Then, when business accounts were added, it promised "no one will be forced to upgrade."
Now, it wants to "require" businesses to upgrade.
That's not playing straight.
I'm not afraid to pay for services. But I want to be sure I'm getting my money's worth. I DID get a merchant account this week. It wasn't difficult at all. It took a phone call and a little over 24 hours for the approval process. And it didn't cost an arm and a leg, either. The rate is lower than Billpoint's and only 0.4% higher than PayPal's current rate.
And I have a 22 page agreement that makes it darned clear what's expected of both sides.
For a lot of us, this isn't a matter of money. It's a matter of TRUST.
posted on September 16, 2000 08:43:33 AM
[i]These Logos may not be altered, modified, or changed in any way, or used in a manner that is disparaging to X.com or the PayPal service...
I would hate to see anyone get in trouble as a result of this. [/i]
"In trouble?" How? My account's closed. Who's Paypal going to complain to about the "No Paypal" logos - ebay? I'm sure Ebay would positively lunge to the defense of Paypal and its logo....ROTFLMAO
posted on September 16, 2000 09:25:53 AM
This decision is based on the bait and switch lie that they suckered us into. I've lost my trust in their honesty)))
I feel the same way. It is hard to trust a company with you money when they have done such a thing. Then to top it off they try to blame it on the sellers and try to make the sellers look bad. They claimed from the start they were here for the sellers. They no the stats and they are not many casual sellers just getting rid of stuff on Ebay most of us are selling as a part time income. In the start that is what the advertised for. It is only in the last few weeks that they have been turning face. Think about this not only have the lied to us Paypal has tried to make us the sellers look like the bad guys who haven't upgraded their accounts. We played by the rules they set then all of a sudden they changed them. I read someone Pay Demon wrote here on the message board that they would at least give 2 weeks notice that is bull. 2 weeks gives us no time to prepare properly to switch to another service, but they no that. It realy erks me when someone that is the bad guy tries to make others look that way. Paypal doesn't know what they are doing. Couldn't make the money on the float so now they are going to yes, force that is exactly what they are doing people to upgrade or leave. Well no that I have some time I am goig to check into billpoint and of course there is always paydirect I have been using them for a few weeks and I really like them and there are not charge backs like paypal allows. So if someone buys something from you and gets it but decided to lie or they want a refund they can't go in and just charge the money back like they can on paypal the have to deal with you to work something out. Paypal will have more people paying the 1.9 and they will have a fall out. When things pick up many people will forget what paypal pulled until they pull something different, but I I agree with Heygrape do I really want to do business and have an orginazation handle my money like Paypal I have already in the last few weeks several limited transactions now I think it is time to get ride of them all together. I am telling you people especially for the Yahoo auctions check into Paydirect!
posted on September 16, 2000 09:52:51 AM
I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread (yes, even PPD). I actually siged up with AW (tho will definitely not use their auction creation tools) in order to post on another topic about which I have strong feelings (Handling charges), but I lurked here originally after someone posted a link on one of the ebay community boards in a discussion about the PayPal fiasco.
Anyway, it was reading through all these comments that helped clarify my own position and decision on the matter because I too was one of those who met with that dastardly "upgrade or lie" screen. Happily, I avoided the automatic upgrade because I went looking for more info on the two accounts (such as HOW MUCH??!!), so the upgrade screen never came up again.
I'm just a small time operator. No way I can afford those fees, nor am I interested in any of their silly extra features -- LOL, esp the vaporware features.
PPD helped in my decision too. I feel sorry for someone caught in his position of having to try to explain and/or justify these actions by PayPal, especially since they are so utterly INdefensible, but his dissembling was part of what led me to the decision to opt out of PayPal.
I've spent my balance down, and I've stripped their logos and changed my current auctions to read something like, "Regrettably, due to recent ill-advised changes to their policy and fees, I can no longer accept PayPal, tho we are looking at alternatives which should be in place shortly." Any new listings won't even mention PayPal, and after current auctions end, I'll close my PayPal account forever. FOREVER.
Such a shame. I liked it so much. Such a shame -- they've got a well-deserved public relations NIGHTMARE on their hands, all because of their arrogance and stupidity. They also need someone on staff who can write their communcations from a customer-relations perspective. How insulting it's all been!
So thanks again, ya'll. As a relatively new PayPal user, I'd had no idea of their previous assaults, snafus, screwups. In a nutshell, they obviously don't deserve my piddling little account. I just wish I could close it NOW.
posted on September 16, 2000 11:18:47 AM
Just FYI, folks - when I closed MY Paypal account I had $0 in it, but if you have $ in your account when you close it, Paypal issues you a check. You don't have to "spend down" your account balance or wait for an electronic transfer to go through. Just close the account and wait for teh check.
Uh, that'd require trusting Paypal to issue the check, though, wouldn't it.
posted on September 16, 2000 01:10:58 PM
CM25 said : "amy -- I just logged in again and viewed their fee schedule, and it says the fees will be
effective as of 10/1. So you were right! "
That wasn't what I read --- it said the 25 cent fee would be effective 10/1, not the percent fee.
posted on September 16, 2000 01:21:38 PM
Whether PayPal's original business model was realistic may be an open question - but I think this was mooted by major changes to that model since X took over.
Re. duplistic Newspeak - Don't their banners still proclaim FREE ?
posted on September 16, 2000 02:15:34 PM
Don't you think that so many of us closing our accounts will get PayPals attention? I think they are -or should be- shaking in their business-account-boots right now.
Until PayPal decides to listen to us (or is forced to by the closing of our accounts) PayPalDamon hasn't got a clue what to tell us, until PayPal comes up with something.
Because PayPal was so "not smart" (to put it nicely) about putting these fees into place, they probably were also "not smart" and thought we all would just roll over and say "Thank you PayPal-we are forever grateful". HA! I think the closing of accouts should let them know we are NOT rolling over.
Maybe this is the start of the "Million-PayPal March" and will really get their attention. A bad business move like this one, will definately come back to bite them on the @@s.
Sigh. And I suppose there is no Easter Bunny, either!
posted on September 16, 2000 03:00:01 PM
Ha, Catyran, MILLION PAYPAL MARCH. I LOVE IT!! Can a new thread be started somewhere with this as the theme?
Personally I did not *expect* the *free ride* to last forever and in fact, withdrew my funds on a weekly basis because I was skeptical that Paypal could make money on the float. In fact, I thought that when the time did come for Paypal to either raise fees or bail, I was prepared to stay if they could still remain competitive. I did however, expect any changes to be handled with much more grace and savvy than THIS. Paypal, you've blown it -- big time, and your ridiculous "reminder" verbiage simply fans the flames.
This reminds me of Calvin-Ball (with apologies to Watterson), where Calvin keeps changing the rules as he goes along and poor Hobbes is always *out.* Well I'm taking my ball and finding another game.
. 
!