posted on September 15, 2000 12:20:57 PM
Until this a.m. I had a perfect 630 feedback. I knew that my streak would eventually end - but am really p.o.ed by the way it ended.
On September 03 I notified a high bidder of her 4 winning auctions. I didn't hear back from her and re-sent her an email after 10 days. Still no word from her but I assumed that like many - she was simply mailing a payment without responding to the email.
Today is 12 days from auction close. She left me 4 different neutral comments saying that I would not contact her to close the sales.
My instinct is to leave her 4 negative feedbacks. My feeling is that she left inappropriate feedback and should have made an attempt to contact me through eBay channels - Her current feedback is 14 positives. She has an AOL address - so, I'm not sure if that was the problem but I have received minimum 500 emails from other people in the last 12 days with no indication of trouble from any of them.
I'm steamed - maybe even over-reacting. I don't think the neutrals will effect my business but they weren't deserved, IMO.
posted on September 15, 2000 12:34:31 PM
Yes you are.
The neutrals won't hurt your business. And you have no idea if she even got your emails (aol is notorious for that). Just playing devil's advocate, did you try emailing from another account? Or try more than two emails? or, even calling her? Seems like you didn't try very hard either, for someone who was trying to sell 4 items.
A feedback of 14 is still pretty new to ebay. And I"m not sure exactly what "ebay channels" you want her to use to contact you..did you want her to go through safeharbor? file a fraud complaint? I hope not...
I'd certainly NOT leave negative feedback, unless you have more proof that she is intentionally stiffing you. Either try calling and see if she is still interested, or just move on, or something.
posted on September 15, 2000 12:40:26 PM
Oh yuck, what a bummer. At least she left neutrals instead of negs.
If I were you I wouldn't leave a neg in return because she genuinely believed that you hadn't made an attempt to make contact with her. Instead I'd email her from an alternate address... well, you know the routine.
You could even look at the four neutrals as an opportunity to do a lot of explaining in your feedback file. Maybe you could even partially make light of it.
Seller would not contact me to complete sale. Oh dear, my emails didn't go through to her!
Seller would not contact me to complete sale. And her emails didn't go through to me!
Seller would not contact me to complete sale. They must be stuck somewhere in the ether...
Seller would not contact me to complete sale. I'll contact this bidder using a different means.
And when you do manage to get in contact, you can ask her to clarify her feedback due to the misunderstanding.
posted on September 15, 2000 12:45:21 PM
My point in considering leaving her negative feedback is to serve as a warning to other sellers that is willing to leave inappropriate feedback within 12 days of auctions close.
The easiest eBay channel would have been to attempt to email me through my auction page. If I could not contact a seller, I would first contact eBay to ask their suggestions - I'm sure this wouldn't have been their solution had she asked for assistance.
Also, I'm just a little floored that she is the only one that hasn't been able to contact me - I don't have any other non-contacts from that long ago.
I have never received either of my emails that I sent to her back as undeliverable - so had no way of knowing that she hadn't received them and assumed that she had.
My negative feedback thought is not because I think she is stiffing me - but, because I think she was wreckless and premature in her decision to damage my feedback. Had she considered for a moment the impact of it - she would have left one neutral and that would have let me know there was a problem.
Edited to say thanks Rainybear We posted on top of each other - Your idea is probably a better approach then launching the torpedos!
posted on September 15, 2000 12:54:27 PM
I think you are giving a person new to ebay too much credit for being "wise in the ways of ebay"...for example, only leaving one neutral instead of four..I suspect many veterans might not think about the implications of that, let alone a newbie. And, in some sense, you didn't come through on four items, so there is a lot of logic in leaving four feedbacks. And asking ebay for assistance..well..we all know how well (and speedily!) that works!
And I don't think this was inappropriate feedback...from her perspective. Frankly, I could almost have justfied a negative for you if I didn't hear from you in 12 days! Leaving a neutral is almost being restrained...
I don't think that she can't contact you...it may be that if she did email you, it would get through...the most likely explanation is that she/aol has some sort of email filter on (so that certain email doesn't get through), so she never heard from you, and just assumed that was the thing to do was to wait to hear from the seller (after all, in her other auctions, that is probably what happened). Or maybe she shares the computer with kids/significant others, and they did something to the email. Who knows?
I'm not saying that you are "wrong" in this matter, and she is "right", just that her actions don't justify a negative from you. Not even close, in my opinion. Yes, she could have handled it better..but so could you, for that matter. Call her, respond to her neutrals, offer the item to the next bidder, whatever...just handle this somehow and move on.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:04:17 PM
I would leave neutrals back. FOUR of them, saying what you just said, in a condensed way. But again, thats just my opinion.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:07:21 PM
Guess I should give my reasons. First, if she has 14 positives, she isnt that new. Second, she has corresponded with 14 other sellers. Third, she SAW your feedback, and took it into consideration BEFORE leaving the neutrals, just what it would do to your record. Thats not being ignorant, or "unknowing". Thats deliberate in my book.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:07:33 PM
Captainkirk has a good point about your bidder not being "wise in the ways of eBay." I recently realized that just because something is obvious to me doesn't mean that it's obvious to everyone else. That was quite a revelation!
I don't know about you, but I have the tendency to think that if I know something then it must be common knowledge. To my surprise, it's often not.
Are you saying she did something "deliberately" good..or bad...when she left four neutrals? Interesting, mybidness, with 620 feedbacks, does not herself know for sure what 4 neutrals will do to her record, so do you really expect someone with 14 to know? Actually, I'd kinda like to know myself how it will affect mybidness's record (and i've been on ebay over 5 years now).
By the way, I think 14 feedback, as a buyer, is pretty new. You can get 14 feedback pretty quickly, without ever running into a situation such as happened here. Most transactions go pretty smoothly (from a buyer's perspective), so it may well be this is her first "bad" one! Actually, as a buyer, in 5 years, I haven't had a single bad one yet...and that would be many more than 14.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:25:54 PM
captainkirk, mybiddness record will not be damaged because people will take into consideration her positives. And, she needs to reply to those neutrals with her own reply. When I gave my opinion, I was refering to what I, myself, knew when I first started buying, before becoming a seller. I saw the feedback, and I was very aware of what it took to get it that high, and with positives. I didnt understand it fully, the dread of seeing the first one as a seller, but I still KNEW what a neutral or negative would do. This chick didnt do diddly squat. AND, she left 4. Why not one, if she is so "ignorant"? Like "no replies, dont understand". Least, she would have left 3 others to counter it once the seller SAW it. But nope...she went and left 4. Mybiddness didnt leave her any at all....but the BUYER did. Why? To beat her to the punch thinking mybiddness would?
posted on September 15, 2000 01:26:39 PM
I looked at my last 50 feedbacks that I've received and most of them comment on my promptness in contacting them and in mailing the items. It seems to me that she could have easily looked at that and realized (even as a newbie) that whatever was happening wasn't purposeful.
The feedback record is there to help her understand who she is dealing with - She chose to disregard that. I can't imagine leaving a neg or neutral in only 12 days and not at least making some real attempt to resolve the problem first - especially when a person has excellent feedback.
I really just need one person to say "neg the B*tich" and I'll go for it. Nahhhh. I'll probably just leave neutrals.
I just think she jumped the gun - considering everything.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:32:58 PM
mybiddness...if it makes you feel any better, I was upwards of 700 plus before I got my first (and only so far) neg. And the buyer did it to me, when I had no intentions of doing anything to his feedback at all. In fact, I said "go your way, Ill go mine". But he had to get the last word in. That hurt. But, tis done now. I got my first battle scar...makes me feel better thinking of it that way.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:39:53 PM
Whether you were being "purposeful" or not in not contacting her (from her perspective), you didn't contact her, so I'm not sure why you think that should matter. From her perspective, a neutral feedback is very appropriate. For all you know, she wanted to give you a negative and made it a neutral in light of your excellent record to date!
I think a neutral response back to her (along with an appropriate response to her neutrals) is very appropriate - she could have tried better, as well. And perhaps she did "jump the gun" a bit (but not excessively)...but does not deserve a negative (which is really your original question).
Maui:
Why 4 instead of 1? That is a very simple question to answer...mybidness didn't contact her on 4 items, so she got 4 feedbacks. Pretty simple, wouldn't you say? Why you would read more into this than that is beyond me. And to answer your other question very simply, why did she leave feedback first..simple...she expected mybidness to contact her, within 3 days, and after 12, she left feeback. There was no reason for her to wait for the seller to leave feedback first, was there? I wouldn't, nor would any other reasonable buyer wait for seller's feedback in this case.
By the way, let me replay some of your logic back to you. You state that 4 neutrals won't hurt the seller's record. Fine, I agree with that. You also state the buyer should know about the impact of feedback...therefore implying that she, also, should know that her four neutrals won't hurt the seller. So why do you think she is doing something "bad" by leaving the four neutrals? Eitehr she didn't realize what feedback would do, in which case she is blameless, or she did know, but didn't do anything bad, so she is blameless again. Neither path of logic justifies this "nefariousness" you seem to be attaching to the buyer. Heck, she *could* have left 4 negatives, but didn't...
Often, the simplest, and least suspicious, explanations of people's behaviors are the most accurate. Its easy to find conspiracy if you look hard enough..even if it isn't there. Most "bad" behavior by people can usually be explained by ignorance or haste, not ill intent.
And with that, i'm off for the weekend...
[ edited by captainkirk on Sep 15, 2000 01:41 PM ]
[ edited by captainkirk on Sep 15, 2000 01:45 PM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 01:41:58 PMMaui I am relieved that she only neutralized me instead of negging - but it seems that when you try to bend over backwards to give a buyer the benefit of the doubt they are always the ones that end up causing trouble.
Maybe I should take meanyhead lessons. Where's SgtMike?
edited to fix a mess up
[ edited by mybiddness on Sep 15, 2000 01:43 PM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 01:42:09 PM
Mybidness,
Something about this bidder does not gell. If she really wanted to get your attention she might of left one neutral but FOUR? That's just plain nasty of her.
I had a bidder (with less feedback than this one) whos e-mails weren't getting through. She had the sense enough to realise this and made a phone call (all the way from the US! - I was floored!) so I wouldn't think she was ignoring me!
Feedback of 14 is not that new. I don't know about everyone else but I would think that most of us were prety well versed in the way Ebay works by that stage.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:44:18 PM
I'm going thru the same thing as you. Although i have gotten replies from MANY AOL people that they have not gotten my emails, so i do believe AOL is filtering their customers emails, so its the AOL customers who should be complaing to AOL. I belonged to AOL for about 2 months & that was enough for me. I can't believe they are as busy as they are. In todays world of Internet, when you can have Free services (& get better customer service)or pay as low as $12 & get great service, why would you even want an InTraNet.. I contacted AOL about my emails not getting thru to my friends or customers & they havn't even replied tot he emails.. thats didn't surprise me because i know how pompas they are.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:49:21 PM
I would be a lot more likely to agree with the "she didnt know any better because she's
new" if I werent currently sitting on three
unresponsive bidders. I have sent 4 emails to each including one through the "email to
a friend" and still no response to indicate
they even had any intention of honoring their bid. I'm on day 15 for one an day 6 for the other 2. Unfortunately, its getting
to be an all too common thing and, frankly,
I'm tired of it. I have to wait 10 days before I can send a non-paying bidder notice, then another 10 days before I can file for a credit. Then have to relist and start the process all over! I think if a buyer does not respond in any way within 5 days, Ebay should allow us our refund and relisting at that point. I have never once had anyone who honestly intended to pay contact me after that length of time and in every situation like this, within a couple of weeks the bidder is thrown off Ebay. Sorry for the lengthy message - just feeling
quite angry between deadbeats and PayPal (not that there is much difference).
Again, I think you are giving people too much credit, or reading too much into actions. Why do you think they were "trying to get her attention" with the feedback (and hence why did they leave 4 instead of 1)??? I see no reason why they were, in fact, trying to get her attention..I just think they were leaving feedback, pure and simple. Four items, four feedbacks. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?
Its soooo easy to get 14 feedback and still not have a clue on ebay that's its pathetic. Heck, all you have to do is to point and click 14 times (easy enough in a week when you first get on ebay) and you're there. Heck, i've met people with TWO HUNDRED and 14 feedback who still ask clueless questions...
and i'm really really off this time..
PS - huskylover - from my experience, deadbeats don't bother leaving feedback, thus inviting retaliation. Most just disappear quietly, hoping to be completely ignored by the seller...
[ edited by captainkirk on Sep 15, 2000 01:51 PM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 01:51:51 PMCaptainKirk Lov'n that name, btw.
If my feedback reflects prompt response over and over - which it does - then don't you think she should have realized that this was a cyberspace communication problem and not a purposeful "ignoring" on my part? I would have given her the benefit of the doubt - which I did when she didn't respond to my emails. She chose not to do that - four times.
She doesn't know if that will impact my selling - my livlihood. That, imo is a gross disregard for the feedback system.
'Sides that dammit, it just feels crummy.
I'll agree it's probably not a neggable - but I do think other sellers should be forewarned with at least a neutral. Maybe four of them.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:54:49 PM
Mybiddness: Check the feedback this person has left for others. There is a very TINY possibility that she uses this neutral feedback tactic when she changes her mind about auctions she has won.
posted on September 15, 2000 01:57:10 PM
Captain,
This bidder was obviously trying to get the sellers attention through feedback which is completely inappropriate. You can't tell me that anyone with an ounce of patience would give up on a sale and leave feedback (therefore completing the transaction IMO) after only 12 days?
posted on September 15, 2000 02:09:07 PM
According to this bidder's logic, she would be deserving of 4 negs/neutrals as well. EBay clearly states that sellers and bidders should contact each other within 3 days . If she did not hear from you, it was her responsibility to try and make contact with you--it's right in eBay's EOA so being a relative "newbie" is not even an issue. You're not over-reacting...
How many emails do we have to send and from how many different email addresses?? Two should be sufficient--if the bidder wanted the item she easily could have emailed and asked you for her total and shipping info. Emails do get lost and misdirected. It is not solely the seller's responsibility to know whether or not each and every email has reached its intended recipient. With all the deadbeats out there lately, how can you be expected to know which bidder is going to be the next one??
posted on September 15, 2000 02:58:54 PM
Mybidness.....I totally agree with debbielennon...Let's say for sake of arguement, you didn't contact her, then it is up to her to contact you! I am on aol and have never had a problem. I just think it was her way of changing her mind and getting to you before you could get to her! Especially since it was four auctions.
Also, just because she only has 14 doesn't mean she hasn't been a member long. I have dealt with people with about that same amount who have been with ebay for months/years, but really don't buy or sell much, but surf. Some even say in their emails that they should have plenty more feedbacks, if only everyone left it correctly. I know I should have about 20 more than I do!
I am not sure of what I would do, but to me feedback is very important and if I really felt she was just trying to get out of paying then I would neg her. If you think otherwise, then leave her the neutrals. Or just a thought...to make yourself feel better, split it up 2 and 2.
[ edited by lMSH on Sep 15, 2000 03:01 PM ]
posted on September 15, 2000 03:10:03 PM
Well, since Im seeing nefarious things where they dont belong, guess I will go list. Glad Im not the only one who has this same opinion that the bidder did WRONG. To be singled out as being a nefarious thinker...gee, I feel loved
I do not think you are over-reacting, nor do I believe that other posters are exhibiting conspiratorial paranoia with some of their interpretations of this incident.
IMO, it is all too easy for anybody, whomsoever, to register several dozen accounts at eBay, and then use us liddle sellers for target practice, in order to destroy not merely the integrity of the eBay feedback system, not merely to disrupt our sales and fill our lives with the busywork of filing FVFs, etc, but in attempt to destroy eBay, itself, by going after the weakest links in the chain.
I do NOT believe that the general public suddenly goes *bonkers* at eBay, once online, and I do not think that alla the reports I read, for years now, constitute the activities of bored teenagers and trolls & Net Pranksters. Nope.
