posted on June 10, 2005 07:36:20 PM
LoL Maggie!! Yes, Linda is correct. She has uncovered the biggest scandal in Canadian history. Our health care is a sham. There are people that need heart transplants who have to wait up to 40 years to get a new one. People with broken arms, legs, etc., are forced to sit in their igloos until a doctor can see them. It's pretty bad. When Kiara and I were in Socialist School (mandatory), we were told not to talk about it. That's why neither of us have mentioned it in the past.
posted on June 10, 2005 07:44:43 PM
I know you're kidding, KD...but you know what...the more kiara makes statements like she does, the more I'm beginning to believe what you just said may well be true.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 10, 2005 07:47:44 PM
I have 2 brothers who are trained in medicine,one is in Australia and no longer practice medicine,he is now in real estate.
I have another brother in Calif,he is still practicing and he aint rich yet.
Who said Canadian doctors can come over here and make millions?after paying for malpractice insurance ,they are lucky to afford a new mercedes.I know doctors who buy used Mercedes.
I also have several relatives in Canada,they dont talk about their healthcare system.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on June 10, 2005 07:54:04 PMSo now logan comes in to what???? State that he too doesn't agree with the NYT article, the Guardian article or the WSJ mention of this Canadian court ruling?
What no good news to report about Bush today so you turn to bashing Canda's health care system? I am glad to see you chose such a biased journalist's article.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on June 10, 2005 07:59:31 PM
Let's see....logans intelligent answer is that I'm bashing Canadian medical care. Well....I did post the NYT article about how their SC ruled and why they did so.
Guess you see that as them bashing Canada too.
When women have breast cancer and get immediate surgery in Canada...but have to wait MONTHS to begin either radiation or chemo treatments....then yes, that's but ONE example I don't want to pay more taxes for the honor of experiencing.
No do I wish that a loved one of mine have to remain in such pain for a year because the LIST is too long...and they then become addicted to the pain killers and get to experience the joy of withdrawal.
Thank you...I like how we do it here soooooo much better.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 10, 2005 08:45:53 PM
Linda, saying cancer patients have to wait MONTHS for treatment is simply not true. Nobody's agreeing with you so as a last resort, you're trying to tell everyone our system is so bad, we don't even take care of women with breast cancer. Come on.
posted on June 11, 2005 12:05:47 AM
Kraft, it’s difficult to try to reason with a raging googlemaniac. It doesn't matter about the reality of where we've lived or what we've experienced in life, they can google it and then rage on non-stop for hours with insane smilies about how wrong we are…..
……while adding things that we’ve never said or believed……..
……all the while arguing and ranting that they know it all......
posted on June 11, 2005 04:35:14 AM
I see yellow finally found his way out of the local strip club. Nice of you to join us again.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on June 11, 2005 08:44:40 AM
So KD and Kiara, so you say the web site I posted isn't really true? Why would they make those statements?
Now if you read the first post I made to this thread it doesn't say anything bad about Canada's Health Care System.
They deserve as we do to have good health care. So what is next for the National Health Care of Canada? I hope for them that they can fix it. Time will tell.
I then posted an article and if you read it they do say there are waits for the diagnostic tests that they need. Radiologists were quoted. Everyone needs health care and in the US even the citizens that don't have health care are never turned away. Insured or uninsured they are not turned away. Many bills go unpaid and the hospitals write them off.
When I finally woke up and quite paying the high Badger care insurance I found a catastrophic policy on the internet that was $150.00 a month and a $5,000 deductible.
This is one reason when and if National Health Care can be for the US everything has to be considered. I am sure that is what Hillary found out when she tried it. It has to be a bipartisan idea so that one party can't blame the other one.
Systems need to be revamped periodically as we get more into the curing of diseases. they just can't sit dormant and hope that they work.
When you talk about the state of the art scanners I worked for GE's CT test center. It was located in the hospital I worked and that scanner was so fast we could do between 30-40 patients in an 8 hour day. But then you needed cooperation between each technologist and the Radiologists so the scanner had no down time. The scanner was up and running for 16 hours.
posted on June 11, 2005 09:03:31 AMSo KD and Kiara, so you say the web site I posted isn't really true? Why would they make those statements?
Libra63, I am sorry but once again you're slightly confused. I hadn't mentioned your name here about any site you posted, nor did I comment on it.
I've said here for months/years that Canada has some problems with their health care system and that most of the people that live up there are aware of it and look forward to improvements.
Some would like it reformed more like the systems in other parts of the world but are realistic enough to know that changes don't happen overnight.
Once I also posted studies that show that both Canada and the US have about equal satisfaction/complaints about their health care.
posted on June 11, 2005 09:17:21 AM
KD - I could, and have in the past, post several sites where CANADIAN doctors have complained about the time between diagnosis and treatment being way too long and not in the patients best interests, where your ER doctors have joined together to file complaints with the head of the medical programs.
I could and have posted many different studies that speak to the issue of this 'long, long wait time' for Canadians who are in serious pain or who have had cancer, serious heart problems who have had to wait for treatments.
And kiara is correct, in ONE respect, anyone can google to see the hundreds and hundreds of problems these long waits between diagnosis and recieving treatment are available for all to read. One just needs to type in Canada long waits for health care....and they can verify I'm not misleading anyone.
The majority of the citizens in Canada appear to like your system....BUT that doesn't keep the long waiting times from being a problem YOUR GOVERNMENT has, for YEARS, recognized as a problem that needs to be dealt with.
Since I have posted many links before, and this is the same reactions I got from you and kiara....there's really no point in doing so again.
Libra posted an article that you and kiara don't WANT to believe. Your choices, naturally, but it doesn't change the FACTS. And that is that after several years of Canadian's complaining about the long wait time....and putting more money towards solving the problem....the problem STILL exists.
So....now we're back to my original post. And that is that YOUR own SC made this ruling....not me saying Canadian's are being put at risk...YOUR OWN SC.
The court ruled that the waiting lists had become so long that they violated patients' "life and personal security, inviolability and freedom" under the Quebec charter of human rights and freedoms, which covers about one-quarter of Canada's population.
"The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care," the Supreme Court ruled. "In sum, the prohibition on obtaining private health insurance is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services[/i]."
posted on June 11, 2005 09:24:36 AM
Linda_k, why do you have such difficulty understanding that I recognize that up in Canada they have problems with their health care that need to be addressed and that I’m not afraid to admit it to all?
My heart goes out to all of you that have received such poor treatment under the Canadian health system while you were up there with your many illnesses and that it has affected you so deeply that you have to constantly report to all of us on the RT about how bad Canadian health care is.
Perhaps next time you have an illness, you should be treated right in the USA under your own perfect system of care and not rely on inferior countries to take care of you.
posted on June 11, 2005 09:40:15 AM
kiara - Here I THOUGHT I'd addressed that post to KD. Weren't YOU the one that started a whole THREAD to discuss your complaint about other posters ansering a question/statement posted to ANOTHER PERSON? Yes, I do believe that was you.
I have no problem understanding anything. This thread WASN'T ABOUT YOU, KIARA. It was a NYT article make note of a Canadian SC decision....that hopefully will be the beginning of Canadian's having a choice to get care of their own when your government can't provide proper care for them.
You're just going to have to get over that everything related to Canada IS NOT ABOUT KIARA.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 11, 2005 09:50:34 AM
Sorry, Linda_k........ while you ranted on I saw that you used my name three times in that one post so kind of thought you meant ME, kiara. Sorry........ didn't realize that another kiara joined the conversation.
Also a week or so ago you got peeved when I used a NYT link about the bad recruiters and you told me that they were an unreputable news source.
I am so confused...........
So..... tell me more about the time you were black and you lived in Canada and got breast cancer while you worked for the FBI......
posted on June 11, 2005 11:08:50 AM"So KD and Kiara, so you say the web site I posted isn't really true? Why would they make those statements?"
LoL Libra! Same thing with reports about Iraq. Some say it's going well, others say it's a disaster. It depends on who's writing what.
Linda, I think it's pretty funny how you talk about Canadian things, then get mad at Kiara because she responds, then tell her it's not all about her. When has she ever said or implied that? Does the same thing apply to you when we talk about the U.S.?
posted on June 11, 2005 11:23:05 AM
long winded post erased....
KD - Because the two of you live there....doesn't discount all the studies, reports, your own government reports, groups of doctors, surgeons, nurses...etc. that show this 'wait time' has been a HUGE problem for your HCS and it IS endangering the lives of many.
Of course, you're both entitled to deny anything you wish. But that doesn't change the FACTS of the problem.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 11, 2005 11:33:44 AM
KD - I also wanted to make note of something else you used as your argument. That was that some think things are going fine in Iraq and some don't...depends on who you believe.
Well...that doesn't work in the case of Canada's health care system. As they use ACTUAL data in their reports, it's not their 'opinions'. And I think that when your doctors group together and keep records of the poor care people are getting because of these long waits, so they can present it to those in charge....speaks much more loudly than what two Canadian's posting their own personal opinions/experiences on a chat broad do.
Also...do you know what ever happened with the class action lawsuit by those 10,000 breast cancer patients? I believe last years when we spoke about their personal opinions of how long it took for them to get their treatment...that your courts had given their approval for the lawsuit to go forward. But I've not heard/read how it turned out, have you?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 11, 2005 11:34:35 AM "And kiara is correct, in ONE respect, anyone can google to see the hundreds and hundreds of problems these long waits between diagnosis and recieving treatment are available for all to read. One just needs to type in Canada long waits for health care....and they can verify I'm not misleading anyone."
Linda, you have been making this illogical leap for years. One can also type in "moron" followed by "Republican" and get 285,000 hits!
posted on June 11, 2005 11:42:13 AM
Oh...good morning helen....the American who says she CAN afford to pay for her own medical insurance, but would rather be one of those who wants American taxpayers to pick up the tab for her.
No helen...I'm talking about studies just like the ones you post here that make comparisons of what ever point you try to make against our country. I'm talking about the different studies comparisons made between the health care systems all
over the world. And it is a FACT that of the Nations with health care systems like/similar to Canada's....they fall short. AND they are the ONLY one which won't allow, by law, their citizens to purchase private care SINCE the Canadian system is failing THEM.
That's what this Canadian SC ruling is ALL about. Not Linda's googling skills.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 11, 2005 11:48:22 AM
Linda, nobody's denying there aren't problems with the health care here. No matter what system a country has in place, there will always be problems. Kiara and I have only stated that we've never seen this stuff happen where we live. Quebec, like Maggie summed it up (so very well, I might add), is a province onto themselves. They ALWAYS have problems and always run to the rest of the provinces to bail them out, yet cry for separatism. That's why I'm leery of any reports that come from there, but am not that blinded to other problems that need attention, like the ones I mentioned.
As for denying all these studies and reports, I could say the same thing about you and Bush/Iraq. That situation also endangers lives. What about all the studies and reports that say Iraq is a disaster? Are you saying Canadian reports are all truthful and American ones aren't?
posted on June 11, 2005 11:52:17 AMspeaks much more loudly than what two Canadian's posting their own personal opinions/experiences on a chat broad do.
I am SO tempted to tell of my personal opinions/experiences on a chat broad
Lol, I thought when she called herself an 'Old Foggie' it couldn't be topped but she just did it......... chat broad ...... hahahaha
posted on June 11, 2005 11:56:33 AM
Better to fall short and have some people wait than have millions without any healthcare at all. Health care in any country should be top priority. As usual, you hop on top of any evidence that a good effort is falling short...in spite of the horrendous chasm that the U.S. health care has fallen into.
posted on June 11, 2005 12:02:06 PM
Helen, Linda has made it quite clear that her biggest fear is having to pay for other people's problems - health care being one of them. The fact that Canadians don't mind having to pay to help others bugs her.
posted on June 11, 2005 12:09:20 PM
KD - Kiara and I have only stated that we've never seen this stuff happen where we live.
I disagree that that is the ONLY thing that you and kiara do.
You discount EVERY report that is used that opposes what YOU personally believe. Even when it's a report your own government issues. Even when it's non-partisan studies that show different. That's not offering proof these reports, doctors, etc are incorrect. That's just posting your opinion, like we all do.
But there is a difference between data and opinions.
And that's what I'm addressing.
Are you going to answer my question on the 10,000 Canadian women that felt they didn't receive timely care after the were diagnosed with breast cancer? Does THEIR class action lawsuit not say anything to you? Like maybe THEY, who actually experienced breast cancer and the treatment didn't receive obviously disagree with your and kiara?
Or are you going to avoid it and we can keep going with making this topic personal?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 11, 2005 12:13:02 PM
How about the millions of American women who are not diagnosed until their disease is so invasive that death is the only option?
