posted on June 11, 2005 06:26:04 PM new
Looks like the SC ruling is having some effect on other provines now. Alberta now want's the same rights to purchase insurance themselves. It's catching on.
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"End Alberta's ban on private insurance," taxpayers group tells health ministerp
EDMONTON: The Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) today called on Alberta Health Minister Iris Evans to end the ban on private insurance. The Alberta Health Care Insurance Act has similar provisions to the Quebec law struck down by the Supreme Court yesterday, which prevents people from spending their own after-tax dollars on their own health care.
In a letter to Iris Evans, CTF-Alberta director John Carpay writes:
"In light of yesterday's Supreme Court ruling in Chaoulli, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) urges you to end Alberta's ban on the purchase and sale of private health care insurance.
In its decision, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that suffering – and dying – while waiting for "non-urgent" medical care violates our right to "life, liberty and security of the person." The court noted, on the basis of unchallenged evidence before it, that delays for surgery cause irreparable physical injury, and can even result in death.
Further, living in pain for months – or years – while waiting for surgery interferes with the quality and enjoyment of life, not to mention a person's ability to earn a living.
As you know, the Alberta Health Care Insurance Act has similar provisions to the Quebec law struck down by the Supreme Court yesterday.
Canada, North Korea and Cuba are the only countries in the world which outlaw the freedom to spend one's own after-tax income on one's health.
Please do not be guided by the emotional rhetoric about "two-tier" health care. We already have a "two-tier" system in place: those who are wealthy enough to jet off to the U.S. can obtain timely quality care, but the rest of us are forced to wait for government care.
In other words, Albertans are allowed to spend their own money on alcohol, tobacco, fancy vacations, jewelry, VLTs, fast food . . . but not on better health care or faster health care. Alberta's law allows us to spend as much as we want on the health of our dog or cat, but not on the health of our child.
Premier Klein has said much about the need to reform health care, but has done very little.
Here is an opportunity for your government to act in the interests of patients and taxpayers, by amending the Alberta Health Care Insurance Act.
Please be assured that reforms towards more accountability and choice will receive full and public support from the CTF."
--30--
For further information contact:
John Carpay, Provincial Director, CTF - AB
Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
posted on June 11, 2005 07:43:00 PM new
well it should-dont forget to stay the hell out of her auctions......
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Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jun 11, 2005 07:44 PM ]
posted on June 11, 2005 07:43:42 PM new
"I wonder if there are other case histories in the mental health field of people loathing a particular country"
my guess would be Poland
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Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on June 12, 2005 09:06:57 AM new
As far as the SC ruling, hopefully it opens the door to private and public health care like in other countries that have an excellent system. The health care system in Canada is very complex between the federal and provincial governments and nothing is the same across the country. It's based on the English one that is one of the worst in Europe.
There are already private clinics operating in Canada and the present system is on several tiers now as it is. I look forward to some change and doubt private will erode public anymore than it does with private/public education IF it's done like in the countries with the good systems but no one knows yet what will happen from this ruling.
I also hope they can open the doors quicker to more of the highly skilled foreign doctors that are in Canada now, the ones who aren't pill-pushers or knife-happy and seem to have the best interests of each patient at heart by teaching preventive medicine. I'm willing to pay more for good health care if need be.
posted on June 12, 2005 09:11:55 AM newThere are already private clinics operating in Canada and the present system is on several tiers now as it is.
You forgot to mention they're operating ILLEGALLY...and have been since it's totally against Canadian laws. Some have just been turning their heads and not 'noticing' their existance.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 12, 2005 09:31:52 AM new
Got to hand it to Linda, now she cares about what the Canadian Supreme Court says and what goes on in Canada. Maybe she is thinking of moving there in 2008?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on June 12, 2005 09:49:27 AM new
My point is the point that those who have complained for years and years about. That your LAW forbids your citizens to purchase privite insurance since the system as it presently functions....is failing those who need it most.
The fact is, it's ILLEGAL to do so under Canadian law. Your country is only one of three that hasn't allowed, BY LAW, your citizens to purchase private health care insurance.
No. Korea, Cuba and your country doesn't allow it by law. Feel comfortable in that group?
That's BIG BROTHER controlling it's citizens.
And I don't think many people would buy into the 'thought process' that says...yes, pay as much as 48%-50% of your earnings, for which a large part of that pays for this terrific FREE health care system. But if we can't provide the actual medical services to you, because our politicans won't make all the funding that's needed to properly do so available...you're are free to fly anywhere you wish to get the care THAT YOU'VE ALREADY PAID FOR in your taxes and maybe, just maybe can't afford to do. So they WAIT..and WAIT...and WAIT. They get sicker and sicker and they die waiting.
BUT if you happen to have 'special pull' with some higher-ups...then we can get you in for surgery or treatment much sooner/ahead of all the other poor whimps that are forced to wait because they don't have 'friends in high places'. Might also want to slip the doctor a little 'benefit' and get sent to the head of the line too. Just depends on how much money you have....how much 'clout' you have. Know some politician with some influence?...get your treatment much quicker...
or pay for the treatment you need yourself...out of your own pocket....or pay all expenses you need to get treatment by flying out of the country and then SUE the Canadian government. See if you can get your expenses back that way.
etc..etc...etc.
That's one of several reasons why this SC ruling was SO VERY IMPORTANT....and as many believe WILL continue to cause overall change in throughout your entire country - like the request from the Alberta taxpayers assoc. is starting to do.
Sounds to me like maybe you and I agree on the issue of your government allowing it's citizens to purchase private insurance if they want.
That can't be I'm sure.
But that's NOT where the majority of your political leaders stand. They argue the system will collaspe IF a two tier one gains favor, so therefore MUST stay as it is.
bbl
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 12, 2005 10:04:13 AM newMy point is the point that those who have complained for years and years about. That your LAW forbids your citizens to purchase privite insurance since the system as it presently functions....is failing those who need it most.
Yeah for Linda, the champion of civil rights around the globe. Just another typical conservative. One that is so worried about what goes on in other countries and other peoples home instead of worrying about her own fanmily and her own government.
The Canadians better watch it, Linda is going to start protesting the Canadian government and demanding change. Why dont you let the Canadian government worry about its own citizens. They do not need an anti-Canadian individual making suggestions on how their country should be run. If the Candian people want change or think the health care system should be run differently, let them fight for those changes.
You don't live there so what do you care? Aren't you the own that said the Canadian posters should give their opinion about American politics because they do not live in this country.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
[ edited by logansdad on Jun 12, 2005 10:05 AM ]
posted on June 12, 2005 10:21:49 AM new
Linda_k, you're raging on about a complex system that you hardly understand and your googling will never compare to living in Canada and experiencing things first hand.
posted on June 12, 2005 10:29:33 AM newAs for breast cancer, you should know that there are different types that grow at different rates. Some don't need immediate care. That's the same for other types of cancers as well. Many people think the minute they're diagnosed they should be treated, which isn't true. Read up on it Linda.[/i] You might be surprised/
Your wrong KD. No matter what you read diagnosting testing is needed immediately. There are preliminaries to each type of cancer that when that cancer is diagnosed other test have to be done. It is not just treating the cancer it is to find out if the cancer has spread before the treatment starts. Why did Elizabeth Edwards when finding her lump went immediately her physician, as most breast cancer patients. Why does a person that is diagnosed with ovarian cancer immediately start her diagnostic testing and treatment. Why when someone is diagnosed with colon cancer go immediately to an onocologist. Maybe you will wait for treatment but I sure wouldn't and either should anyone else.
So now you are telling us to read up on treatment of cancer but when we read up on Canadian Health care it isn't true. How do you know if they are telling you the truth about cancer, if your telling us that what is written about your health care isn't the truth.
posted on June 12, 2005 10:36:24 AM new
Linda_k also keeps ranting on about the free health care in Canada and still hasn't clued in that Canadians pay for it...... it's not free.
posted on June 12, 2005 10:37:32 AM new
There is something just so weird about linduh caring so much about what happens to Canada....it's freaky...
40 million AMERICANS can't afford health care and she's worried about the Canadians ????
Then, of course , she'll say anyone can get health care in America for free if they can't afford it........DUH ! It's not free the taxpayers pay for it. And if the uninsured could afford their own then taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it.
What is this sick hang up she has about Canada ???.....she'll never answer because neocons don't have to answer questions...just liberals...
posted on June 12, 2005 10:50:30 AM new
And to put this more into perspective, I believe Canada is the second largest country in the world when it comes to land mass and they have a relatively small population.
Many communities are remote so it's difficult for everyone to get the same level of service when it comes to health care or anything else when one Province differs so much from the next and diagnostic equipment is so expensive. Sometimes the planning of getting people from one area to another for treatment at any given time is a task and can be boggled by bureaucracy.
posted on June 12, 2005 11:14:25 AM new
Libra, after a person is diagnosed, depending on what type of cancer you have and whether it'd metastasized, will determine when you go in for treatment. If I found a lump today and was diagnosed tomorrow, I might not start treatment for another 3 to 4 weeks, not months like Linda has suggested. That time isn't going to make a difference.
Linda, again you point out how the Canadian system doesn't provide adequate care. Although Kiara and I have stated we haven't experienced that, we also said it's quite possible, just like any health care system.
One of my questions to you, Linda, was wouldn't the survival rate of patients who pay for their treatment be higher than the survival rate of a health system that doesn't provide adequate care, if your theory was correct?
posted on June 12, 2005 12:15:44 PM new
I have been a lurker here for a long time.
Kraftdinner said: "If I found a lump today and was diagnosed tomorrow, I might not start treatment for another 3 to 4 weeks, not months like Linda has suggested. That time isn't going to make a difference."
I hope and pray you never have to know the anxiety and the waiting.
posted on June 12, 2005 05:44:23 PM new
KD - I will ask you and KIARA again....what ever happened with the case that was filed LAST YEAR by the 10,000 breast cancer patients that filed a class action lawsuit BECAUSE they didn't like having to WAIT MONTHS for their treatments.
You both keep ignoring that question. Is it because you think if you ignore it and tell us all how there's really no wait....that that somehow discounts or makes 10,000 OTHER breast cancer patients mean nothing?
Obviously THEY filed because THEY didn't see it as you and Kiara do.
But...for some VERY STRANGE reason neither you nor kiara will address these 10,000 who sued.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 12, 2005 05:53:52 PM new40 million AMERICANS can't afford health care and she's worried about the Canadians ????
YOU and no one else has shown proof of the above statement. It is NOT true.
First of all because all who need care in the US, get care. It has to do with those you don't have medical INSURANCE as has been stated a MILLION times. Some are just too DENSE to understand the difference. NO ONE in the US is denied care...not even illegals. That is a FACT. Having medical insurance is a whole other ball game.
Second because all in that number aren't ones who CAN'T afford it....they just CHOOSE NOT TO PURCHASE it. Like helen, they wish to be freeloaders on the backs of other taxpayers.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 12, 2005 06:08:24 PM new
For those who wish to compare Canadian and American health care, this page at Nationmaster Encyclopedia has excellent facts. It was updated 9 days ago.
posted on June 12, 2005 06:23:49 PM new
LOL STILL won't answer....well then I'll just conclude that means neither you NOR KD wants anyone to hear of th 10,000 women who sued because they didn't get adequate breast cancer treatment.
And one can't really give a good comparison between our two systems...yours is public....ours is private.
A much more educational comparison would be where Canada is compared with other countries who ALSO have National health care systems.....and see that Canada's doesn't rate as HIGH as theirs does.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 12, 2005 06:32:05 PM new
So a person should experience things first hand before they can comment on them?
Should make for some interesting discussions.
posted on June 12, 2005 06:48:05 PM new
My last post on this thread.
Anyone who wants to read for themself....learn what's really going on in a 'rationed' health care system....can do so.
This is just a link on 'waiting time for care' in the Canadian....hundreds of articles speak to the problem
Then I'll suggest you google 'shortage of doctors in Canada.
Or...'diagnotic machines in short supply in Canada'
etc. etc. etc.
I hope, while many American's search for a 'better' way to handle our our health care issues....that we don't end up buying into this type of socialized medicine. It's not working...hasn't been for years.
Read some of the people who share their horror stories....read what groups of ER doctors are saying....
then ask yourself....do you REALLY want this form of government control in your OWN lives... the lives of your loved ones...when they are so seriously ill? I know I sure don't.
Think our emergency rooms make us wait....read about their 9-10 hour waits....people who are having heart attacks LEAVE the er....children with broken legs/arms....wait these long hours.
It's NOT a better system...it's a good look into the future IF American voters decided to go this route. I sure hope we never do.
The list goes on and on....but I think anyone truly interested will have enough to give them a general idea so they can decide for themselves if this is what THEY want to pay probably twice the amount of taxes they do now....so they can have this type of care.
posted on June 12, 2005 06:50:11 PM new"A much more educational comparison would be where Canada is compared with other countries who ALSO have National health care systems.....and see that Canada's doesn't rate as HIGH as theirs does."
Although that kind of study would be instructive, you have chosen to make this thread a comparison between the U.S. health care system and the Canadian health care system in which you claim that the Canadian system is inferior to the U.S. system. That is why we are comparing the two.
As I mentioned before, Your claim that 10,000 women had to wait for care in Canada seems petty when you consider the hundreds of thousands of American women who will die without even a diagnosis. That fact illustrates that the more serious problem is in the U.S. where the poor and middle class are excluded from health care because it is unaffordable
posted on June 12, 2005 06:51:35 PM new
Of course Canada's system doesn't rate as high as others. I've been saying that all along...... it's not a good model. It's a complex system that needs reform. Even the people that live in Canada don't fully understand it and I don't think the politicians do either.
But most people receive good care comparable to the US. Information on the system can be obtained from sites such as Health Canada. Nationmaster has health facts on both countries as well as countries all over the world.
Linda_k, I’ve already explained why I won’t answer your questions. You can rage all you wish and type my name in caps all you wish and bully and roar and demand I answer your questions but I will say again......... CRAM IT……. it’s not UP to me to get info through to YOUR fuzzy brain cells when all you can do is ASSume.
posted on June 12, 2005 06:59:46 PM new
Why bother answering her questions anyway...she can't or won't comprehend the answers.....
"""Then, of course , she'll say anyone can get health care in America for free if they can't afford it........DUH ! It's not free the taxpayers pay for it. And if the uninsured could afford their own then taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it.
What is this sick hang up she has about Canada ???.....she'll never answer because neocons don't have to answer questions...just liberals...""""
Again, there is no SANE reason for linduh to rant and rave about Canadian health care so let's all agree with her and she may just implode
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Some have just been turning their heads and not 'noticing' their existance.